Trotec Speedy 400 or Epilog Fusion 40

[Jay Selway]

Anybody on here have one? Hoping I could ask you a few questions.

PM me please. Thanks!

(or email jayselway (at) gmail.com)

[Mitchell Tutty]

Can't speak on behalf of the Speedy 400.

But I do have the Epilog Fusion 40.
Obviously I can't compare the two but I have nothing but kind words about the Fusion. Have had it a little over 10 months now, with it running pretty much 8 hours a day Monday-Friday for the last 6-7 months. It has not missed a beat, had about 2 minutes of downtime since I purchase it. (Issue was fixed over the phone to my rep.)

I live in a small country town in Australia, about a 5 hour drive away from my nearest Epilog rep. But they are incredible, really know their stuff. Spent a week down here when we first bought it training me. And fix any issue over the phone, yet to have an issue that couldn't be fixed over the phone but have no doubt they would be straight here to fix it.

Will PM you.

[Scott Shepherd]

My exposure to both of them and their owners has lead me to the conclusion that they both have strong points and weak points. Where one excels the other doesn't and it works in both directions. Both are new generation machines and that needs some consideration.

[Keith Bielat]

I currently have a Flexx 400 and had a demo unit of a Fusion 40 for a few months before that. Like others have said, both have some strong and weak points, but if you have a question about something specific ask away. The members here are extremely knowledgeable and are willing to help out with just about anything.

[Jay Selway]

Thanks guys. I love this forum.

Basically, I'm looking for a laser to do mostly wood cutting and engraving work. Probably some acrylic at some point too.

I'm mostly interested in Trotec Speedy 400 because of the pass through option, as some of the work I want to do is larger format. I'm curious how that actually works in practice though. I wonder how registration works if you have to shift the substrate to cut. Can you feed it electronically (with a motor)? Also, I understand almost everything on the Trotec is enclosed, which can make for much less dust getting into parts. Is that true or is that even a big issue?

I'm also interested in the Epilog Fusion 40 for a few reasons. The sales team has been on point, super helpful, and if that's the customer service I'm going to get, that's awesome. Epilog's also work with Macs, which is a big plus for me (although I understand 3d cutting doesn't work at this point, but will soon). The sales team has said the Fusion 40 can work like the trotec with passthrough, but it sounds like you have to defeat the interlocks (aka it's not really designed to do that out of the box). Any thoughts on this?

I also am curious about wattage, as the Trotec rep recommended I go with 120 watts (big surprise it's the most expensive). I likely will want to do some pretty thick cutting of wood, and from what I understand with a 120w laser I could cut up to 1/2" of wood. I was thinking that 70-80w would probably be more than enough. Any thoughts on that?

Basically, I'm an artist and want to have as much creative freedom as possible with the laser. I want to be able to use pretty much any substrate, and have the quality of the cut / engraving be awesome and the laser work fast. I don't know though if 120w Trotec Speedy 400 w/ pass through is over kill.

I'm arranging demos of both, and plan to do a decent amount of testing of different materials and varying levels of complexity with the artwork.

Last question, what are the upsides and downsides of each?

[Kevin Gregerson]

With Universal tubes and a 2.0 lens Wood these are the general power requirements as a heads up. If you get into Thicker woods like Mahogany, Teak, and Ironwood the requirements change but with Cherry, Maple, walnut you should be able to do this. Personally, I recommend figuring out the woods you want to do and send samples of them in for testing so you can be up and running on the first day.

0.3'' (7.6mm)30 watts
0.34'' (8.6mm) 40 watts
0.38'' (9.6mm) 50 watts
0.42'' (10.7mm) 60 watts
0.48'' (12.2mm) 75 Watts
0.59'' (15mm) 100 Watts
0.67'' (17mm) 120 Watts
0.79'' (20.1mm) 150 Watts

-Kevin

[Robert Tepper]

Jay,

Purchase the most powerful laser and largest table that you can afford. You will never regret it. I am a Trotec owner and swear by my machine and the support that they have given me. My machine has only been down two days in the 28 months that I have owned it.

Best of luck in your purchase.

Robert

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm mostly interested in Trotec Speedy 400 because of the pass through option, as some of the work I want to do is larger format. I'm curious how that actually works in practice though. I wonder how registration works if you have to shift the substrate to cut. Can you feed it electronically (with a motor)? Also, I understand almost everything on the Trotec is enclosed, which can make for much less dust getting into parts. Is that true or is that even a big issue?

In my limited experience, pass through doesn't work all that great on any machines I've seen. The problem is smoke removal. What happens, when your machine isn't in pass through mode, is you have very good air flow that pulls the smoke and debris parallel to the work, out the back of the machine, which keeps the lens clean. When you open the doors to do pass through, you lose a huge amount of that. Now you have a huge, open area and your exhaust, no matter how strong, isn't sucking through small openings to create high air speed, it's sucking through a huge area and the air speed is low. What that means is that if you have a 1.5" or 2" lens, your lens is close to the work. It's very hard to keep the smoke and debris from drifting up, instead of out, which means it contaminates the lens (and will break it in VERY short order). If you had a 4" lens, then you'd be in much better shape, as the smoke would have a lot further to rise up to hit the lens. It's a real mess with the smaller lens, in my opinion. You have to manually orient it and move it, which isn't a huge deal, unless your artwork is constant, in which it can be a real challenge. It's almost impossible to stop and engraving in anything, move it, and start it back up without getting some line there where you've double burned a line or two for a second. Some materials hide that better than others, but it's another real life issue you have to think about. It's also not that easy to setup for pass through. It takes some time, to it's not like it takes 30 seconds and you're in pass through mode.

120W is a LOT of power for a first time laser owner. I'd send samples to both companies and tell them you want actual times and samples run and compare the results. 120W is a $40,000-50,000 machine from either company, I think. That's a lot to spend to make art. You could outsource a lot of engraving for that amount.

Both machines will do what you want. The Epilog is probably easier to use, the Trotec has more features. Which one is best for you? Only you know that.

[Mike Null]

Take a look at Kern as well. http://www.kernlasers.com/ They are a very fine company and one of our sponsors.

[Kevin Gregerson]

From a large format perspective of running products. A Kern would be my Choice too they have a special exhaust designed for this

In general I agree with Scott on the pass through issues but in general each manufacture combats it with a feature.

Trotec has that exhaust pull with the single exhaust tube behind the head.

On the Universal side they have the travelling exhaust Arm that's mounted right behind the Laser Head on the length of the X arm which is the primary reason the ILS can't run 1.5 optics as it does lower the height of the X Arm effectively reducing your max Z height.

I don't know what Epilogue has to combat this issue I couldn't find anything on their site.

[Scott Shepherd]

Trotec has that exhaust pull with the single exhaust tube behind the head.

Not on the 400. Maybe it's on the 500, but it's not on the 400, that I am aware of.

[Kevin Gregerson]

Not on the 400. Maybe it's on the 500, but it's not on the 400, that I am aware of.

I believe you are correct in that.

http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US-US/Laser-Machines/Accessories/Options/Pages/Travelling-Exhaust.aspx

[Paul Phillips]

120W is a LOT of power for a first time laser owner.

I don't know Steve, I've managed to get by ok! :p
I was fortunate to come into it with a lot of previous CNC experience so it wasn't too big of a leap for me, for all the custom work I do I can't imagine having less!
I would agree with you about the pass through feature, it can be a challenge, I've only used it once when I had to engrave many lines of copy on a piece of corian that was slightly too large, I was able to break it up so as to not have any overlapping letters, only a pin-line border, turned out great, (engrave top-move-engrave bottom)

[Kevin Gregerson]

I don't know Steve, I've managed to get by ok! :p
I was fortunate to come into it with a lot of previous CNC experience so it wasn't too big of a leap for me, for all the custom work I do I can't imagine having less!
I would agree with you about the pass through feature, it can be a challenge, I've only used it once when I had to engrave many lines of copy on a piece of corian that was slightly too large, I was able to break it up so as to not have any overlapping letters, only a pin-line border, turned out great, (engrave top-move-engrave bottom)

Oddly enough, I have to agree. But it also depends on the previous experience. If you have the contacts to process materials like many of the lightoptics, high value heat transfer materials($500-$5k a square foot), Kapton films, etc. Or have experience running noble gasses like Nitrogen. Then a Laser is a good upgrade for your shop. It's just often times a multiple day training update to make the switch from analog components to a Laser process as they are two different forms of thinking process.

[Jay Selway]

What the heck. Typed up a response and it vanished. :mad:

Anyway, I was saying, 120w is probably overkill, but since money isn't much of an issue - I'd like to get the biggest bed and strongest laser I can get. I want to have full creative freedom to do whatever we need to do. I'd hate to want to run a wood surfboard through a laser (something we're planning on doing) and not be able to do that with any kind of space or efficiency.

I tested out an epilog helix 24 today, mostly to familiarize myself with their software and the general system. Plus, my sales associate is pretty cool, so the opportunity to hang out and use his laser was something I couldn't pass up.

Comparing the Epilog to the chinese laser I used 2 weeks ago was really worthwhile. We had my artwork up and cutting in 10 minutes, probably would've been less if I wasn't a noob. The chinese laser I used took forever to get working, and constantly was crashing and having software problems. Plus the controls on the chinese laser were poorly translated and didn't work.

I was pretty impressed with how quickly the 50 watt helix 24 we were testing engraved the same artwork / size I ran on the chinese laser. It took 49 minutes on the epilog 50w, but took us about 90 minutes on the chinese 80w. I know that's a bit of apples and oranges, but yeah, the experience was just much smoother on the Epilog.

I also ran another really complex design with some very small type, which it tore through in 10 minutes (check it out : http://instagram.com/p/tbYb7AOQDr/). The detail was phenomenal. Plus it was cedar, so the room smelled great.

My plan is to run the same design / surface I ran on the chinese laser on the fusion 40 and trotec 400 when I demo them next week.

Thanks so much for everyone's help. You guys have been fantastic getting this noob up to speed with things.

Scott, do you know if any pass through systems offer a feed to move your cutting medium with some level of accuracy? I couldn't find anything online.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, do you know if any pass through systems offer a feed to move your cutting medium with some level of accuracy? I couldn't find anything online.

I don't know of any, sorry.

If you can get 120W, then by all means, go for it. My comment was only that most people are concerned about the cost of a machine, and 120W makes the price jump up quite a bit. If money isn't the constraint, then 120W it is!

Here's what you won't see with less watts in wood- any real advantage in speed from one machine to the next in engraving. Any time you have to get the speed below 100%, it starts to equalize the machines to a large degree. With 80W and burning wood, you would have to lower the speed substantially to get a dark burn on most woods. With 120W, you'll be able to keep the speed up, maybe even 100% and get a dark burn.

120W will do a great job on wood.

[Jay Selway]

Thanks Steve/Scott.

Also, I was curious, I've been noticing a lot of wood engraving that is pretty deep, but without much burn. I'm assuming after the engraving, people are doing something to remove the creosote, but wasn't too sure. Sanding perhaps? Sometimes that burn is a nice effect, other times you might not want it.

I'll check out Kern lasers as well.

[Mike Null]

The darker burn is not a given. Some woods, light ones like maple, don't darken much even with multiple passes. As you become familiar with your machine and different woods you'll identify what's possible with each.