Woodpecker's Carpenters Square

[Rich Riddle]

I received an e-mail from the Woodworking Shows about a limited edition carpenter's square from Woodpecker. You can save your spot for $100. That seems pricey for a carpenter's square. What are your thoughts on it? Is it marketed toward woodworkers or tool collectors?

http://www.woodpeck.com/ottmodel6sscarpenterssquare.html

[Jim Matthews]

Smells like the Bridge City tool business model.

"Limited edition"
I'll keep my Swanson, thanks.

[Roger Nair]

I've retired from building but that is by no means a carpenter's square, for the most part roof work is done in terms of slope not degrees, secondarily it lacks the versatile nature of the steel square as a layout tool. At a $100 it is completely limited in function, it would never find a way into my kit.

I think this is just cynical marketing not deep thinking nor traditional tool design. Somehow the companies name sounds apt as long a PT Barnum ethos prevails.

[Tom M King]

I'm still building stuff for a living, and there are not many tools that I don't have, but I never had any use for a speed square anyway, so I won't be buying one of these. I do use framing squares all the time, and a number of combination squares.

[Keith Outten]

This is a beautiful tool made to an exacting standard that some will surely enjoy. Clearly its not for everyone but those who have the need for such a tool will enjoy using it for their projects. It reminds me of a layout tool very similar to those a machinist would use and in that light it isn't really all that expensive. Its stainless steel not aluminum which adds to the cost of production but it designed to last for a lifetime if handled properly.

I can't say that it would be used in my shop as I rarely work to those kinds of tolerances and I already have the necessary, more traditional, tools when I do. I really enjoy using very high quality tools, the few I own are carefully stored in my tool box and I am careful when I handle them in the shop. Unfortunately I don't own many quality instruments because the precision required for the jobs I do doesn't require them.
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[Malcolm Schweizer]

I saw this, and I think it also was discussed elsewhere on this forum. When I first saw it, I said, "Oh cool, I have been wanting a quality 45 degree square like this." Then I saw the price. Wow. I would still pay a lot for a good quality one, but the biggest issue I had was the size. Why only 6"? Most carpenters are going to use it for rafters and stairs where you"ll mostly be using 8 to 12" or even larger stock. That was what kept me from getting one. I might pay $100 for a 12" version, even though I would still have to give some thought to it. A good carpenter's square is hard to find. They all seem to be cast and poorly machined these days.

I do agree they are trying to go the route of Bridge City. I really hate "collectible" tools. That said, I'd buy a Woodpecker tool over a Bridge City any day. Not impressed with the BC square and scratch awl I own. Good, but nothing special. The WP drill press table is awesome and I felt it was fairly priced. Granted I got it on sale. I cannot knock Woodpecker's quality and innovation, but this one really made them look more novelty, which I regret because they make some cool stuff.

[Daniel Rode]

I have a Swanson speed square that I've used for decades. Probably cost me less than $5 new. I use it for rough carpentry and occasionally breaking down boards but not for woodworking. I don't see the point in a super-premium carpenters square clone for woodworking.

[David Weaver]

No thanks!! I'll stick with plastic drafting triangles and adjustable inexpensive steel carpenters squares.

Since this is the HT section and not the power tool woodworking, I can only say that the aesthetics of most of the woodpeckers stuff are pretty nasty!! That's, of course, an opinion - and I don't begrudge anyone else to feel otherwise. I'm just out of love for tools that have multicolor aluminum doodads on them, and as I gather Jim is implying, most of the limited edition stuff is not for me. If it was a good value proposition, they'd be able to sell it indefinitely.

[Prashun Patel]

The irony is that a $100 carpenter square is something I might buy on an impulse because who doesn't like shiny new toys.
Having to wait until January is a real deal-breaker.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

The irony is that a $100 carpenter square is something I might buy on an impulse because who doesn't like shiny new toys.
Having to wait until January is a real deal-breaker.

I do understand the business model- Don't make it until it's sold- no backstock to deal with, no money spent that wasn't already earned. Honestly, from that point of view it's pretty smart. What makes it less desirable for the consumer is we live in a "Gotta have it now" society. Also when I look back at some of their one-off tools, there are a few that would make good all-the-time offerings, like the dovetail markers, angle transfer gauge, and the angle setting gauge to name a few. I find myself leaving their site thinking, "Well, everything I want they only made one time."

David, I actually like the red anodized. Mind you, I prefer cocobolo and brass, but aluminum is a great alternative that allows me to use precious cocobolo for projects and not on my tools. As my avatar shows, I am a fan of red and black. If I owned a tool company I think that would be my colors. All the blades, marking edges, etc. would be black oxide coated, and the add-ons and trim red anodized. Of course things like chisel and saw handles would be wood. I do have my limits, but for measuring and marking I am perfectly fine with anodized aluminum.

[george wilson]

I'll just stick to my precision,vintage machinist's squares. The Woodpecker's appearance just does not look like a high dollar tool,frankly. I really do not like aluminum tools either. The red parts are anodized aluminum,just waiting to get scratched or dinged up. My old machinist's squares are hardened steel,accurate to far greater than .001"(more like .0001",there are different classes of accuracy). Of course,you have to be lucky to find old Starrett and B&S squares.

I don't know what a new Starrett 6" square costs. I paid $75.00 for mine,reluctantly,(in a flea market,but that was early on in my machinist's life,and I needed a good square.) I don't think they cost a whole lot more than that new. But,I haven't checked their prices. Manhattan Supply sells a set of very decent steel squares. I can't remember what I paid,but I bought a set for the shop in the museum when I took mine home. They are imported,but did check out fine against my master squares(made of black granite,super accurate to .000001") The largest one is about 8" IIRC. The smallest about 4".

I don't mean to sound like a snob,but I just like steel tools. Hardened steel if possible. Working with vintage machinist's tools(which I am lucky to have found),puts your mind into a totally different setting.

[Adam Cruea]

I believe my new Starrets (12" and 4" double square) were about $75 from Lee Valley. But I got the cast-iron ones, not the premium ones.

I don't want to build to .0000001" tolerances and I don't need to, either. This is a hobby, darn it! I do it just to see pretty sawdust everywhere. :D

[george wilson]

The Starrett square I referred to is the 6" solid steel one,with beam riveted to the blade,not a combo square. I have them up to 20",and down to 2". Those combos are never as accurate. No,you don't need the extreme accuracy of my granite master squares for wood(wood moves MUCH more than that!!:))

Chris Vesper is making very accurate squares. They really fall into the realm of machinist's squares,but he sells them to wood workers. He checks them against a very accurate cylindrical square. I have several of his. Wish he'd offer his small one with INCH markings!

I use my squares for metal work,of course. But,I do use my machinist's squares for wood working,because I have them. It is good to have your own little "Bureau of Standards" if you use machine tools. I also have a granite straight edge. Just like the ancient Egyptians!! And granite surface plate-useful for seeing if planes are flat in the realm of woodworking.

[Adam Cruea]

Oh oh. . .the engineer's reference squares.

Yeah, I think those are a pretty penny now.

How did you get a granite straight edge? I assume most of these granite tools and high-accuracy things are all for reference points for other tools? I mean, I'd be way too afraid of dropping anything granite and watching it shatter into pieces. I'm way too jittery. :(

[David Weaver]

I follow george's advice, and get vintage squares. I do have one true square that I use to check if they are any good. If they're not perfect, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't use them, either, I just like to know if they're not. My "good" square was checked against a brand new starrett certified square (which someone else fortunately bought) and now I have a good true square that cost me about $18 used (an old moore and wright).

The same friend who bought the certified square was excited to bust out a "guaranteed" red and gold colored larger square one time when we were working on a project, one that had never been used and was larger than the 6" starrett guaranteed square, and he got a shock about just how far away from the starrett his certified starrett square. I don't think he ever sent it back, but he'll curse it if you bring it up. It was far enough off that a pencil line test would've given it away.

I don't begrudge anyone who likes the looks of the anodized aluminum stuff, I'm not into dogma. I don't like any of bridge city's things, either, and they aren't of that ilk. Looks are a personal thing. I like understated and straightforward when it comes to measuring tools.

[george wilson]

Bridge City designs are often way too extreme. That brass block plane they made looked as if it had been stretched way too far. Their little brace is just bizarre. I think the guy is into triangles or something. Same with their combination square. Nice awl,if you don't drop it and break off the delicate palm grip on the handle. Nice design,though.

Do you refer to the red and gold Incra square? I don't know of any other with that color scheme. I have an Incra miter gauge on my table saw,but it proved so slippery I could not cut a board straight across with it. I faced it with beechwood to finally get it into use.

It isn't that I HATE the looks of anodized aluminum. I just don't like aluminum tools. They are too easily dinged. And then,they look awful. I'd sooner have some good,hard,stable wood. At least it doesn't look bad when it gets a few scratches. I made and used wooden squares for many years in the musical inbstrument shop. The largest one I made was a 20" blade pearwood one,faced with boxwood. I left it there,unfortunately. Not much use except on harpsichords,though.

[David Weaver]

Yes, Incra. It probably wasn't an indication of incra's quality, just that particular square was a dud. The guy who bought it never returns anything, he just curses what he got instead and never buys from the company that made defective goods. I'm sure they would've replaced it if he'd have asked.

When I see aluminum, some thoughts come into my head
* I could dent it
* I could accidentally shave edges of it off with a marking knife
* it's cheaper to mill (and probably cheaper to buy) than steel

I don't like any of those things, but I'm sure if it was all steel, the commensurate price increase would go along with it.

George - you have a starrett 24" engineer's square, don't you? I think I've now talked to two other people who have one. I got mine on ebay for $19 and it's undamaged and in great shape. I could hardly believe it. It's got US marks on it and it came from a guy who lived near a naval yard and bought garages full of decommissioned tools. he was dead by the time I got it, but he'd probably roll in his grave if he found out it sold for $19. It's probably $2 a pound at that price!

[george wilson]

Yes,my biggest square is about that size. I'd have to go check. But,new,those big squares are way over $1,000.00. I got all of mine in excellent shape for much cheaper,except for the 6" Starrett for $75.00. That guy used to sell at Schupp's Grove. He was a little steep for the time period,but he had lots of good machinist's tools. Eventually he vanished. Some other dealer told me he was in jail for STEALING the stuff!! I did notice he carried a pistol under his coat. So,he got it for free,and charged a lot for his stuff!!

[ian maybury]

Must say I'd agree that aluminium isn't a good bet for long term survival in good condition when used for everything - not in circumstances where stuff is going to get banged about.

Against that I'm a big fan of Incra. I have quite a bit of their stuff, and it works very well - handled intelligently its very accurate. Great service, and good hands on knowledge of the positioners. I wouldn't put it in a commercial shop where it would get abuse, but it's not targeted there either...

[Art Mann]

I think this item would be an excellent addition to any tool collector's set.

[Jim Matthews]

Chris Vesper is making very accurate squares. They really fall into the realm of machinist's squares,but he sells them to wood workers. He checks them against a very accurate cylindrical square. I have several of his. Wish he'd offer his small one with INCH markings!

I came really close to buying one of those little gems at WIA.
Making something that small, so well is rare.

On walking around, I found it was something I wanted desperately - but did not need.

Still, as demonstration of the machinist's art - it was a wonder.

There was a line to fondle the bevel gauges, but the little gauge with it's deeply engraved beams - how I want one!