Retrofit an Epilog Summit with a ??

[Lee Bennett]

Here is my quandary... I have an Epilog Summit 2000/25A that has a SYNRAD F48-2-283 dated 1996. I think it might need a recharged but I'm not sure. Regardless, I was told that it is no longer serviceable because of its age. Other than it lasing intermittently everything else seems to work well. Is there a replacement tube that I can use instead? Do I have any other options? What about converting it to a 3D printer with laser option? It does have a Z axis! I need some opinions and/or options to work with. I don't mind gutting it or whatever is necessary to get some use out of it. **START RANT** Apparently, from my research, I just don't have the amount of money necessary to do the right thing with the laser tube. I am summarily disheartened by the amount of price gouging for the parts and service in this particular industry. (CAS vet. 20+ yrs) I guess that's 'The American Way'! Way to go USA! Yeah, Stick it to the workin' man! **END RANT** Sorry for that...

[greg lindsey]

Have you tried Photo Vac or Laser resale, either of them should be able to help you.

[Lee Bennett]

Thank you for the reply and those options.

Yes, I have contacted Photovac and they were more than happy to help, to the tune of more than $2k.:eek: Not a viable option at this time. After looking at Laser Resale it seems that it's going to be at least that much as well. Still, not a viable option at this time. I'm already into this thing for over $1k, although that includes the purchase price, I'm not that willing to just keep throwing money at it. For $2k I think I would rather gamble on gutting it out and replacing the tube, motors and driver boards with all new parts. But if I'm going to do that I might as well make it do double duty as a 3D printer/Laser cutter.

What about retrofit in a cheap Chinese tube? I've got about 36" of clearance where the original tube is. What else would have to be changed?:confused: Power Supply, Driver Board???:confused:

There has to be a cheaper way. I read a project post on Hackaday where ThunderSqueak built a laser tube at home with a glass tube encased in a PVC tube for a total cost of $70. How well it works, I have no idea but it gives me hope.:)

[Dan Hintz]

Yes, I have contacted Photovac and they were more than happy to help, to the tune of more than $2k.:eek: Not a viable option at this time. After looking at Laser Resale it seems that it's going to be at least that much as well. Still, not a viable option at this time. I'm already into this thing for over $1k, although that includes the purchase price, I'm not that willing to just keep throwing money at it. For $2k I think I would rather gamble on gutting it out and replacing the tube, motors and driver boards with all new parts. But if I'm going to do that I might as well make it do double duty as a 3D printer/Laser cutter.

If you think $2k is expensive for a rebuild/regas, wait until you see invoice pricing for a new cartridge... depending upon power, you'll be at $10k+ for starters.

[Bill George]

My guess is IF the rest of the machine works ok, as the servo or stepper motors doing what they should do. A re-gas would be the way to go. My concern would the operating system being able to take modern files and still engrave.

I think 1996 era would still be Windows 95 or Windows 98?

If your plan including making money with this machine would the $3000 total investment worth it? Price gouging? Or the cost of doing business?

[Mike Null]

I paid Photovac a lot more than that for my re-manufacture and I'm a happy camper. They did a great job and I didn't miss a beat as a nearby competitor ran a couple of jobs for me. (I will do so for him as well)

[Ernest Martin]

I had Photovac regas the tube on my Summit in 2011 and they charged me 1370.00. It was the same tube as yours also manufactured in 1996. My Summit is only a windows 98 compatible but I have a Windows 7 and use a windows 98 virtual machine on it so it works out pretty good. There turnaround time was also pretty good.
I since have added a air nozzle or cone to it which gets used for cutting or lasering rubber.

[Dave Sheldrake]

What about retrofit in a cheap Chinese tube? I've got about 36" of clearance where the original tube is. What else would have to be changed?:confused: Power Supply, Driver Board???:confused:

$450 for the DSP and control system, plus cost of psu(s) and tubes and potentially stepper. Would be cheaper to buy a junker Chinese machine new and rip the guts out of it.

I'd go with a re-gas like the guys have said, lasers and their associated costs aren't cheap...nature of the best I'm afraid :)

cheers

Dave

[Martin Boekers]

A while ago I picked up an Epilog Radius 25watt, Synrad laser. Still works well. Photovac said it would be about $1200 to recharge it. Granted that was a few years ago.
If you decide not to recharge it I believe they buy old tubes also.

[AL Ursich]

I sold my Summit on eBay a while back needing a tube and it had the oldest Firmware and a driver board that only operated on Win 95. I found some Win 98 boards at about $1K each. So know what you have before you throw any more money at it. That win 95 board could not have the firmware updated.

This is an expensive hobby and your desire to get into 3d printing will be expensive too.

The summit is a work horse if you have a Win 98 board and good rails worth charging the tube. I have some maintenance and parts PDF's that Epilog sent me years ago if you need them drop me a pm with your email.

Good Luck,

AL

I once had even older plastic side laser engravers.... :)

[Lee Bennett]

Thank you all for the responses.

I have successfully engraved with this unit using Win7 32bit, using a wireless printer adapter too, but the laser beam would cut out about half way through the image.

As far as "cost of doing business" goes, I would have to have some paying business for that machine first before I could justify (meaning = afford) to chalk it up to that.

I understand that hobbies that include lasers and 3D machines can be expensive but it seems as though when it comes to things like the laser tubes THEY have got
you by the nads! So, back to my original question. There has to be a cheaper way even if it is only a temporary fix until I can afford to fix it correctly.

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong forum. I hoped that the people here would be a bit more imaginative and adventurous and not give the same old standby answers.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I hoped that the people here would be a bit more imaginative and adventurous and not give the same old standby answers.

Lee, with the greatest respect the answers you are getting are factual, the amount of equipment and clean rooms etc required to fill even a basic tube with the correct gas mix run to several million USD as a start point. Sadly it's not just a case of blowing CO2 into them and hoping for the best. Resonators are and remain an exact science and not within the mandate of a refilling business being a backyard hick with moonshine breath and a hose pipe trying to blow into them.

The fact you are not making money with it doesn't change the facts of laser physics or the costs involved with repairing them.

Imagination is great, not when it comes to fixing precision pieces of equipment though, the standby answers are the correct ones in this case.

cheers

Dave

[Kev Williams]

The most expensive part of any laser, is the laser. The box it comes in is dirt cheap...

And an opinion- with car payments averaging around $5 bills a month, and mortgage payments averaging around $2 grand these days, and don't get me started on big screen TV's-- $3 grand for a machine- for hobby or otherwise- that can generate that much in sales income within weeks isn't something I'd consider a bank-breaker...

[AL Ursich]

Thank you all for the responses.

I have successfully engraved with this unit using Win7 32bit, using a wireless printer adapter too, but the laser beam would cut out about half way through the image.

As far as "cost of doing business" goes, I would have to have some paying business for that machine first before I could justify (meaning = afford) to chalk it up to that.

I understand that hobbies that include lasers and 3D machines can be expensive but it seems as though when it comes to things like the laser tubes THEY have got
you by the nads! So, back to my original question. There has to be a cheaper way even if it is only a temporary fix until I can afford to fix it correctly.

Maybe I'm asking this question in the wrong forum. I hoped that the people here would be a bit more imaginative and adventurous and not give the same old standby answers.

Well that is good news the Drivers work with Win 7 as that is half the battle.

Just curious you mention it cuts out half way through the image. Do you know for sure that the laser quit and it just is not a mirror problem.. A dirty spot or a area missing the reflective part. Suggest you stop the machine when the laser stops and open the cover and place a yellow sticky in the back corner where the laser power comes in and try it quick and stop it to prevent a fire. Looking to see if the laser is still putting out but it is a Mirror Problem...

Good Luck,

AL

[Lee Bennett]

Well that is good news the Drivers work with Win 7 as that is half the battle.

Just curious you mention it cuts out half way through the image. Do you know for sure that the laser quit and it just is not a mirror problem.. A dirty spot or a area missing the reflective part. Suggest you stop the machine when the laser stops and open the cover and place a yellow sticky in the back corner where the laser power comes in and try it quick and stop it to prevent a fire. Looking to see if the laser is still putting out but it is a Mirror Problem...

Good Luck,

AL

AL,
You are correct! When I got this machine all of the mirrors were badly corroded. As a temporary fix I cut up a platter from a used laptop hard drive and stuck them on using some double sided tape. It worked great!
I suppose that it could be the optics on the tube or the focusing lens but they really aren't in that bad of shape. I really suspect it's the gas charge but I won't discount the RF Board(s) or Power Supply.
I've been in the production side of the engraving industry for over 20 years, so trust me when I say, "Been there, done that." I have really done my best at troubleshooting, narrowing down and fixing the problems. I suppose the that I should probably cut my loses and sell it.

Thank you to all that chimed in! I really do appreciate it! I have great respect for the knowledge in this forum!