Scott's broadcast spreader, upscale spreaders and setting rates in general...rant

[Don Morris]

I take pride in my lawn. I live on a hill that is steep enough to have me wearing spiked shoes in order to maintain good footing. I use a Scott's drop spreader for almost if not exclusively spreading seed. Thus is doesn't get a lot of use and has lasted for a long time. I've used Scott's broadcast spreaders for everything else and they just don't hold up. The axle rusts through, the wire used to pull up the opening for whatever is in the tank, after one season or so can't be/or is very difficult to adjust so it can be calibrated. I've resorted to crimping the wire to get the lines lined up. Plus, the wheels are so flimsy they bounce over the slightest irregularity dumping extra material, or when you make a sudden turn or movement the same thing happens. I call those my Scott burns. A Scott's bag that lists for 5,000 Sq ft at a certain rate may or may not take the listed number of passes to use up the amount in the bag. Look at the ratings given by the users on Amazon.com...fair to poor.

However, if you look at upscale broadcast spreaders, they have better wheels, push easier, spread whatever is in the tank more evenly. But try to find a bag of something with that brand's setting listed. Lots of Luck. Ask the manufacturer and they will give you a conversion chart. Look at reviewers comments about those. Hah, not very accurate at all, if at all and you need to know your math. Thus if you go the upscale route be prepared for: 1) 3X the cost, 2) 3x or more to take the time to figure out what the setting you need on your spreader for whatever you buy. After that you may be good for years to come, but you have had to invest money and a good deal of time. Buy a new bag of something...more time.

For me at my age, I've come to the conclusion I'll just get the best Scott's broadcast spreader and figure I'll have to live with it, and replace it with some regularity. If I were 20 years younger or had more acerage, I'd invest in one of the upscale spreaders.

Just had to rant after looking at the new flimsy models at HD costing around $60 -$80, knowing something is going to break or go out of adjustment in short order.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Don,

I ran into the same problem last year. I had one of those Scott's Upscale spreaders from 30 years ago. I accidentally stumbled and fell on to it bending the axle. There was no repairing it. It seems Scott's no longer sells those under their name though as you found out they are still available, manufactured in Ohio IIRC but unbelievably expensive!

Though I prefer a good drop spreader, I bought a Scott's broadcast spreader.

Like you I will just buy the best they make for the same reasons you did.

[Paul McGaha]

It is frustrating to spend money on something you don't have any confidence in.

We're like that with appliances now. Especially dishwashers.

PHM

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

The difference in price is unbelievable though. I encourage Don to correct me if I am wrong as it's been a year since I researched it. It took along time for me to find the information.

The one that is exactly the same as the original Scotts drop spreader retails for $700 IIRC. It's made in the US and it's marketed now for the commercial market. It's not marketed under the Scott's brand anymore.

[Wade Lippman]

I bought a Scotts broadcast spreader at a garage sale for $5 20 years ago. It is fine. What am I missing?

[Bruce Page]

$700!?! Can you post a pic of the one you guys are talking about? I have a 30 yr old Scotts drop spreader that works year after year but I have no idea what you mean by an Upscale Spreader.

[Larry Frank]

I use one of the Scotts broadcast spreaders and it has lasted quite a few years so far and has a lot more in it. I have one with the edge guard to use along driveways and sidewalks. My only complaint is the handles are too short for someone 6'3". One thing that I have noticed is that the fertilizer is corrosive and you need to clean the spreaders out after each use.

I only fertilize twice a year and that is plenty as it has gotten really expensive.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bruce.....the original drop spreader was a Scott's metal precision spreader. I bought it over 30 years ago. Last year when I stumbled and stepped on it, I researched it. I am sure it was built for Scott's by Anderson. Now the only one Anderson makes is made with stainless steel instead of painted steel like the Scott's was. I found a website last year where I could buy the Anderson replacement and IIRC it was $700. IIRC, the one I had was 32" wide...painted Scott's green. It had just a few minor differences...plastic wheels versus pneumatic tires.....but it was a lot cheaper. Searching now, it appears they are only sold through dealers and I can't verify that price. Here's a link: http://andersonspro.com/wps/portal/ahorticulture/home/horticulture/products/spreaders

[Myk Rian]

I solved the problem by not fertilizing. Just makes the grass grow faster, requiring more cutting. Plus it gets in the lake.
I do have a spreader though. Grub control and some fertilizer.

[Don Morris]

The difference seems to be whether it is a DROP or BROADCAST spreader. And whether you have an irregular or hilly lawn, and whether you use it to spread lime and/or snow melt. Drop spreaders don't seem to be the problem. It's the Scott's broadcast spreaders of late and the type of lawn and your type of use. Like I originally mentioned, my hill is steep enough, that a couple times years ago I slipped and fell while mowing with a lawnmower. I now use Kahtoola microspikes (http://www.rei.com/item/856702/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-system) which I got at REI. I used to use Lacrosse shoes but found these worked better. They also double as good ice condition spikes. Perhaps on a relatively smooth and flat lawn, the problems I've encountered wouldn't appear, particularly if I lived in the south and never used snow melt and hardly ever spread lime. Also, Larry Frank does it right, he cleans his after each and every use. Bravo Zulu Larry! Taking care of the spreader will go a long way towards it's longevity.

[Jim Rimmer]

I use one of the Scotts broadcast spreaders and it has lasted quite a few years so far and has a lot more in it. I have one with the edge guard to use along driveways and sidewalks. My only complaint is the handles are too short for someone 6'3". One thing that I have noticed is that the fertilizer is corrosive and you need to clean the spreaders out after each use.

I only fertilize twice a year and that is plenty as it has gotten really expensive.

I have one of those type spreaders and it works fine. I just wish they would leave off the edge guard and drop $5 or so off the price. I have found that the edge guard isn't worth the material it's made of.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm just going to pay someone to do it. They charge $55 a visit to spray for weeds and fertilize, 7 visits a year starting in the spring until late fall. Plus an extra $65 once a year for grub control. Based on the neighbor across the street's lawn they know what they are doing and I don't have to mess with it. I priced just the Scotts Weed and Feed products at Lowes and it would cost me that much to DIY it and I have no clue what I'm doing.

[Don Morris]

You have a point Matt on having the local Lawn Guy do it. But if you use the local Lawn Guys here to also cut your grass, they use one of those wide body cutting machines and scalp part of the grass while cutting the other part just right. They never adjust the height depending on time of year or type of grass. As far as the weed and feed goes, neighbors who use them tell me they occasionally have to call them back to show them weeds. They respond well enough, but they aren't as careful as a concerned home owner. The best Lawn Service in the area does a great job, but costs $$$.

[Bruce Page]

I'm just going to pay someone to do it. They charge $55 a visit to spray for weeds and fertilize, 7 visits a year starting in the spring until late fall. Plus an extra $65 once a year for grub control. Based on the neighbor across the street's lawn they know what they are doing and I don't have to mess with it. I priced just the Scotts Weed and Feed products at Lowes and it would cost me that much to DIY it and I have no clue what I'm doing.

I went that route with TruGreen/Chemlawn. It started out at 6-7 treatments a year. By the time I cancelled the service they were showing up every 2-3 weeks and sending me a bill for $35 each time. And I still had weeds..

[David Weaver]

I went that route with TruGreen/Chemlawn. It started out at 6-7 treatments a year. By the time I cancelled the service they were showing up every 2-3 weeks and sending me a bill for $35. And I still had weeds..

If your dogs eat stuff out of your yard, it's bad for dogs, too. I used to treat, and my neighborhood is half treat and half not, but I still had ground ivy and some other 2-4d weeds. I've taken to using a whole lot less broadleaf in a mix of 2-4D and triclopyr out of a backpack sprayer and that's it (we have a garden, too, and kids in the yard so that stuff matters - maybe more to my wife than me, but why spend the money to start a fight?).

If I have weeds at fence lines, I use glyphosate now instead of trying to control the weeds and leave the grass.

there's one side benefit to not fertilizing the yard (aside from the fact that I don't get clogging mowing in the spring) and that's that if it's dry for a month in the summer, I don't feel that bad about it.

We had a spreader identical to ken's when I was a kid, and from when I was spreading fert, etc, i had a scott's broadcast. There is no comparison between the two, and I see now that scotts has all plastic junk with junk plastic wheels, and anything in my broadcast spreader would stop the wheels if the yard wasn't dead even. I'd much rather have had the old painted steel drop type - we washed ours when we were done. Now that they're stainless, I guess it's a sign that washing them out has become too much work.

[Matt Meiser]

This isn't one of the national companies. Going by the neighbor's yard, they do a good job.

[Chris Padilla]

Astroturf or go fully native. Lawns do consume so much water. I'm really itching to just rip mine out...one of these days....

[Bruce Page]

Astroturf or go fully native. Lawns do consume so much water. I'm really itching to just rip mine out...one of these days....

We zeroscaped the front last year (love it). We still have grass in the back yard for the kids (dogs) to play on and where we spend a lot of time.

[Larry Frank]

I have one of the so called "Junk" Scotts spreaders and it works great on my yard. I have used it to fertilize two acres which has hills and flat spots. I do not have any problems using it.

I had one of those companies give me a quote and it was $150 each time for a minimum of 6 times a year. They would not even consider doing it only 2 or 3 times.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

With very little practise, most people can become surprisingly proficient at hand spreading/sowing. If you start with a known amount to apply to a set area, just put a pair of gloves on and get to slinging.

Do any of you guys use soil samples for your fertilizer analysis?

[David Weaver]

Do any of you guys use soil samples for your fertilizer analysis?

I got a chuckle out of that :) The people selling fertilizer and 2-4d in a bag wouldn't advocate such a thing if it might slow down consumption of high priced yard products.

Our local extensions used to do soil analysis for something like $10 a sample. I don't know if they still do or if they do analysis of soil for turf, but it'd probably make what people do and how much a whole lot more accurate to take a couple once or twice a year for what's effectively the same cost as one bag of stuff.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Lol, that was my point David. I can grow 8 foot tall, 200 bushel corn on an average sized lawn with the contents of one bag of some commercial fertilizer. Soil samples to see the real fertility levels are a good idea. Might be shocking.

[Larry Frank]

A soil test would be good in some instances. My lawn sits on pure clay which has almost nothing good in it. I try to plug aerate it every other year, put down some peat or sand after aerating it and then use a balanced fertilizer twice a year. That along with establishing the proper blends of grass in sunny and shady areas helps. I will be interested to see how some of the new blends of grass prove out which advertise that they have deeper roots and need less water.

[Mike Wilkins]

While I have a simple Scotts spreader, I can't help but think back to watching my father spreading fertilizer around the yard with his personalized spreader; the palm of his hand and a gentle swing of the arm.
I have used this method and it works. Not precise, but simple and cheap.

[Don Morris]

I have a hand spreader to put down preen in non lawn areas. Works pretty well in keeping weeds down. Steve Rozmiarek's hand spreading comment is giving me ideas about using the hand spreader for broadcast spreading of fertilizer. The problems with it would be: it doesn't hold a lot of material, and difficult to control the amount with any kind of precision. As if precision is necessary. Also, I'd have to refill it so often, I think it might become a PITA. Although, it might be worth a try.

[David Weaver]

Don, are you referring to a hand spreader as the type that slings over your shoulder and has a small hopper, or just putting on a pair of gloves and using your hands? I think steve is referring to the latter.

[David Weaver]

The precision of fertilizer (I am no expert on it) reminds me of a discussion going on with a forum I was on one time. Someone had bought a new deere 1790 planter, and other guys with kinze planters or older white planters were making fun of the seed spacing and how bad it was on a very expensive new john deere planter. Stories of guys down the road who had the same and had stands that were much uglier than theirs (with old planters), etc, and ridiculing (people in ag tend to be, or at least used to tend to be very brand loyal - think apple vs. pc). I asked if the population (number of seeds per acre) was OK and how the crops yielded and all I heard were crickets. If the accuracy really affects the results, then I guess it's important (with spreaders), if it doesn't, I guess it's not.

I can't stand my cheap scotts spreader because the back end of my yard is shaded and wet. Every winter as it freezes and thaws, it gets less and less smooth, but not so much that a pneumatic wheel spreader would have an issue, and not even a broadcast spreader, but my lightweight spread with tiny plastic wheels has all kinds of trouble going through there. I doubt it makes any difference in the results, but it annoys me a lot when it bounces around and the paddle stops!!

(steve has a lot of green stuff...I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone through a green planter - he could probably tell us the answer to the question nobody ever answered to me!! I remember a research paper stating that population was more important than spacing, and that spacing in the test cases they tried had no material effect on yield).

[David Weaver]

Lol, that was my point David. I can grow 8 foot tall, 200 bushel corn on an average sized lawn with the contents of one bag of some commercial fertilizer. Soil samples to see the real fertility levels are a good idea. Might be shocking.

If I were choosing for a yard, I think I'd apply weed killer and iron instead and no fertilizer. All the people in my neighborhood are looking for is a dark green lawn with no weeds. The only place I've seen that kind of density mattering is in the rough on a competitive golf course, and sometimes when you're walking through a course like that, the 2-4D odor is so strong that you wonder whether you should be in it or not. Can't be good for the guy applying it, but the guy doing that probably has a mask on.

(someone on a farm board gave me the iron tip when I was complaining about fertilized lawns seeming kind of dumb because they forced me to remove clippings instead of being able to mulch. No fert and I can easily mulch the yard all year and never see clippings - i never tried the tip).

[Don Morris]

This is the Hand Held Scott's spreader I've got. Holy Cow. Read the reviews! The same thing seems to be happening throughout the Scott's product line. They're cheapening the product by inserting more plastic and the result is a downgrading of each items' performance. The older models performed better. Yes, I've had the jamming problem, but not so bad as I couldn't finish the job. Now I'm not so sure about using it for fertilizing the entire lawn.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BYCP7/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk

[David Weaver]

I'd imagine it's based on an analysis from home depot that they will sell more units at X price and most people really don't care about the quality. Along with HD and Lowes and other such places demanding more of a slice of the action, forcing corner cutting.

So we're left with cheap stuff or ultra expensive.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The precision of fertilizer (I am no expert on it) reminds me of a discussion going on with a forum I was on one time. Someone had bought a new deere 1790 planter, and other guys with kinze planters or older white planters were making fun of the seed spacing and how bad it was on a very expensive new john deere planter. Stories of guys down the road who had the same and had stands that were much uglier than theirs (with old planters), etc, and ridiculing (people in ag tend to be, or at least used to tend to be very brand loyal - think apple vs. pc). I asked if the population (number of seeds per acre) was OK and how the crops yielded and all I heard were crickets. If the accuracy really affects the results, then I guess it's important (with spreaders), if it doesn't, I guess it's not.

I can't stand my cheap scotts spreader because the back end of my yard is shaded and wet. Every winter as it freezes and thaws, it gets less and less smooth, but not so much that a pneumatic wheel spreader would have an issue, and not even a broadcast spreader, but my lightweight spread with tiny plastic wheels has all kinds of trouble going through there. I doubt it makes any difference in the results, but it annoys me a lot when it bounces around and the paddle stops!!

(steve has a lot of green stuff...I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone through a green planter - he could probably tell us the answer to the question nobody ever answered to me!! I remember a research paper stating that population was more important than spacing, and that spacing in the test cases they tried had no material effect on yield).

LOL, yeah there have been several green planters behind my tractor. People love to compare stuff, and if no meaningful difference exists, they measure something irrelevant. Plant spacing is important, BUT... it matters a heck of a lot more to a sugar beet the sizes the root in relation to the space to it's neighbor, than it does to a bean that's going to be so tangled up with anything within 2 feet anyhow. It's just like most tools, it's the guy using it, not the tool. What they ought to be comparing is reliability and the true cost per acre, including all parts and time lost. JD has a new planter out that will plant corn at 10mph now, I bet the forums are buzzing over that one.

Sorry for the tangent, now I'm off to bed, cutting beans is an early game.