Acclimating a 1000 bdft of lumber

[Scott Stafford]

I am taking delivery of a large quantity (1000+ bdft) of 4/4 S4S Claro Walnut this week. It is coming from western Oregon and I live in arid Montana. I'm concerned about acclimating it. The wood won't be put to use until late next spring or summer.

I plan to build a 4' x 12' torsion box to set and shim on my somewhat unlevel concrete warehouse floor. I will then sticker the lumber using lath on about one foot centers. I'll top it with another torsion box and apply weight to the top. Or maybe I'll strap it to the bottom plinth?

Most of the lumber is in long lengths and 8" to 12" widths.

The warehouse is heated to 70 degrees.

Am I over-thinking this?

Is there a better affordable material for stickering?

Suggestions?


Thanks in advance,

Scott in Montana

[Mark Bolton]

I'd say you're way over thinking it if the material is KD. I'd be putting some clubs on the floor, if its way out of whack shim them to the same plane with shims or wedges and stack away. If your space is damp then stickering may help you but if the space is conditioned just dead stack it and go on.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with Mark. Remember that many here use air dried wood,whole different deal. Cut a short piece off one of the wider boards and keep it in your house ,then take it with you when you "visit" your lumber. Hold it against its original
position and most likely you will see no difference in width ,even if you soak the the piece in water.

[Mel Fulks]

P.S. , I would not pay for heat for lumber storage.

[Lee Schierer]

I would put some 4-8 mill plastic under the stack. Put 2x4 stickers on the plastic then shim them so they are level. Then stack and sticker your boards. Put weight on top or use ratcheting cargo straps to hold down the top pieces. I see no reason for the torsion boxes.

[Scott Stafford]

Mark, I was initially thinking just like you and it still may be the best answer.

I didn't put this in my first post, but what has me thinking is this material cost $30+ per board foot. I guess some would call it "instrument grade".

Thanks for the input.


Scott

[Prashun Patel]

I used lath to sticker some green lumber and got mold and sticker stain. If it were me i would cut my own stickers from trusted, dry lumber or composite material if u can afford it.

[Mark Bolton]

What type or grade of lumber it is is irrelavent. If its KD stickering and weighting is an anal retentive waste of time and space. If KD material benefited from stickering every single lumber broker, retailer, and manufacturer, would require twice as much warehouse volume due to wasted air space. Tractor trailers would only be able to haul half as much material, prices would go through the roof.

I would agree with the poly under the pile only if your space is damp.

[Myk Rian]

Torsion boxes? That's a waste.
Stack it, and forget it. Put plastic sheet under it first as mentioned above.
When you take it into the shop, let it sit a day or so before using it.

[Larry Frank]

Let me think about this.....1000 bdf at $30 a board foot.....$30,000. If I made an investment of that amount I would go overboard to protect it. I would not want to take any chances that it warped or something else due to not stacking it properly. Just call me overly careful....

[Mark Bolton]

Let me think about this.....1000 bdf at $30 a board foot.....$30,000. If I made an investment of that amount I would go overboard to protect it. I would not want to take any chances that it warped or something else due to not stacking it properly. Just call me overly careful....

What if stickering it caused you more problems? Why do you think by default that stickering is better?

[Danny Hamsley]

If it is kiln dried, and if the space where it is stacked has a moisture barrier underneath, and is level, then dead stacking it is the way to go. That way, only the top layer will be exposed for moisture change. Stickering it will allow air flow through the layers, and unless the storage space is climate controlled, the wood will gain or lose moisture, most likely gain moisture.

Just make sure that where you stack the wood is level, that there is a moisture barrier underneath the stack.

[Scott Stafford]

Hello Danny,

I received a sample board from this supplier a month ago. I compared it to another piece of 4/4 Claro walnut I purchased a year ago. There is a little over 4% difference according to my meter. So it will lose moisture.

Because of other usage of my warehouse, it is heated to about 70 degrees during the winter. The temperature rises to the high seventies during the summer months.

There is no direct sunlight.

No vehicles other than an electric forklift are stored in the building. Here in Montana vehicles often bring a hefty amount of snow in with them during the winter yielding unwanted humidity.

The floor is very old concrete, in good condition but slightly unlevel or straight.

My concern with stacking the lumber is that I'm not sure that the lumber in the center of the stack will reach equilibrium.

At the value of this lumber, I am willing to go the extra steps to care for it.


Scott in Montana

[Prashun Patel]

I sticker all my lumber, kd or not. It keeps just fine. You may not have to, but i do not believe. That doing so will cause problems.

[Dave Zellers]

Let me think about this.....1000 bdf at $30 a board foot.....$30,000. If I made an investment of that amount I would go overboard to protect it. I would not want to take any chances that it warped or something else due to not stacking it properly. Just call me overly careful....
OVERLY careful??? I'm going to call you border line negligent. After building 12 foot torsion boxes, and stacking and sticking it every 12 inches, I would hire armed guards.

But to offer something real to the mix, the one thing about using weights or ratcheting straps would be the concern that I would be locking in stresses that could be released later at just the wrong time. It might be best to stack and stick the lot as carefully as you can yet still allowing the wood to do it's thing as it acclimates. The straight, stable stock will self identify as will the short stock.

Having said that, SOOOOOOOOO many people here know so much more about drying and storing wood than me. The best advice might be to keep this thread alive and get a very WIDE range of suggestions. No single person will have the answer.

[Andrew Hughes]

The claro walnut I have worked from the Pacific Northwest has been some of the most stable wood I can remember.I would unload the skid and cover it just the way it was delivered.Its going to be fine.Aj

[Jim Matthews]

I would put some 4-8 mill plastic under the stack. Put 2x4 stickers on the plastic then shim them so they are level. Then stack and sticker your boards. Put weight on top or use ratcheting cargo straps to hold down the top pieces. I see no reason for the torsion boxes.

+1 on the vapor barrier over a concrete slab.

[Jim Rimmer]

Why is everyone assuming it is KD? I read the OP 3 times and he didn't say it was. DO we just assume it is because it's expensive wood?

[Mark Bolton]

Why is everyone assuming it is KD? I read the OP 3 times and he didn't say it was. DO we just assume it is because it's expensive wood?

I asked specifically, and the OP responded to my question. While he didnt address the KD specifically I pretty solidly take that as a confirmation that it is infact KD. Aside from that if the material is $30/bf and its green or air dried it must be lined with gold.

I can only imagine if the material was AD or green the issue of stickering would not even be in the conversation.

[Mark Bolton]

As an aside from the stacking issue it would be interesting to know a bit more about the material especially given the price. I dont ever deal in musical/instrument grade material but I have often seen material graded for that use with book matched, burl, figured, pairs that are shorts (perhaps 5-8') selling in the mid twenty dollar a foot range but thats usually for two boards. It never seems to get much more obscene than that until you get into wide AND figured/matched. One would think 1MBF would command a bit of a discount but perhaps not.

Given that, we are talking about 12' material here by the sounds of it which doesnt sound like what Im talking about. Most of the the premium quality/figured I see is in shorts but perhaps thats part of it too. If freight is included in the $30 thats another issue too.

Interesting none the less.

[Scott Stafford]

Mark,

The wood is up to ten feet in length, mostly 12", and KD. Multiply bookmatched and some figured. I don't think there is a formal designation for musical grade, but I'm pretty sure a lot of this would qualify if there was. This seller does provide walnut to one large guitar manufacturer. Waste due to flaws should be less than 5%. We'll see.

This shipment is the first of three for this project.

I ended up screwing straightened and thicknessed 2x4's across a sheet and a half of plywood on about 15" centers. The fastening was just to prevent them from falling over. I will put this on top of a piece of plastic as suggested and shim it level. I then intend to stack and sticker the lumber. I am undecided if I will strap the pile; I'll just have to see how it looks.

All of this is subject to go to heck and to be rethought once the wood shows up. Such is life.


Scott in Montana

[Mark Bolton]

I would think any instrument manufacturer regardless how big or small would likely return a cordial email asking how they handle the receipt of such material. Beyond that, your supplier is selling this material, I would think they would be able to clearly tell you how they, and their other customers, handle and store this material. I can only imagine they warehouse some quantity of material for a period of time while waiting for orders. Surely they can tell you if they sticker or dead stack their own material in house?

I dont mean to sound snooty, because I am simply a small peon in the wood world, but when I have a question or concern I tend to logically look to the people who are moving thousands, or millions, of board feet of material a year as opposed to a hobby community who has the free time, and lack of a balance sheet, to allocate to doubling the space, time, effort, and so on, of handling and storing lumber. There is no way for that not to sound offensive, and I can only imagine if I were bidding a job that required $30K of material I may take some extra pains. That said, I think I would have to accept the fact that I have to be profitable doing the work regardless (not that youve ever stated your doing work for profit with this material).

Its a far cry from forking a stack of material off onto some clubs, and having to handle every board precisely arranging and aligning stickers, covering/strapping, worrying about sticker stain, and so on. If the opportunity is there to set the lift on some clubs I'd want to take advantage of that! ;)

Its not musical or instrument grade lumber but every single wood processing outfit in the country forks units off a truck and onto bunks daily. Whether those lifts are priced at 30K who knows, but Im sure someone can tell you. :rolleyes:

[Kevin Jenness]

The main concern is that the lumber be within a couple points of its target MC in use when you process it to avoid excessive movement in service. You are not expecting to use it for six months or so, so dead stacking the load(assuming it has been properly kiln dried) in an environment close to its anticipated EMC should not be a problem; it will acclimate to that EMC without stickering over the storage period. You should monitor your storage space to ensure the RH agrees with the expected conditions in use. My guess is that a 70 degree F unhumidified warehouse in the Rocky Mountains in winter would yield a rather low EMC, perhaps lower than your target. Do you have an accurate hygrometer for monitoring the storage conditions? If the overall conditions in the warehouse are not satisfactory, you might consider a small "tent" of plastic sheet and framing with a DH to maintain the optimal RH, or modify the temperature overall to achieve that.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott, in terms of moisture related lumber movement, assuming that your lumber arrives around 12% MC it will probably dry down to 8% in your dry winter environment. I think that you are overthinking your storage needs, because you will not see much movement in the lumber between 12% down to 8%. I am in agreement with Danny and Kevin, the approach that I would take is to lay a moisture barrier down underneath it, lay down cribbing on 12" centers and make sure that the cribbing is flat from side to side and end to end, and then flat stack your lumber on top of the cribbing. I do not see any benefit to having a torsion box under the lumber (unless your floor is unstable).

By stickering your lumber, depending upon the seasonal swings in your RH% you may actually encourage wood movement as opposed to preventing it, because you will be exposing ALL of the boards to the delta's in RH%. The temperature of your storage environment is not as much of an influence as the RH% is.

Let's say that your winter time RH% in the warehouse is 35%, and your summer time RH% is 65%. By stickering what is ostensibly dry lumber you will be exposing ALL of the boards to changes in RH and the wood will move as a result. If you flat stack it as Danny recommended, other than the outer layers the inner ones will not experience the extent of RH% swings and therefore the lumber will remain more stable.

If your warehouse is both temperature and RH% controlled year round (and the two are kept relatively consistent, then you can sticker for several months in order to allow it to air dry down below 10%, and then flat stack for longer term storage.

Once lumber is dry, it is typically stored flat.

Now, if you really want to be anal about the wood storage, then skip joint/plane all of the boards to a consistent thickness (or at least one that is consistent across the entire layer in the stack), and flat stack (or if you must use stickers plane them to a consistent thickness as well. )

[Jim Becker]

Properly stacking and stickering is a good idea here. One doesn't need "thick" stickers, however. When I sticker "on the rack", I use inexpensive 1/4" sheet stock cut into strips for stable stickers. That allows for air flow without doubling the size of the inventory space requirements.

[Chris Padilla]

The wood will do what it will do. If properly KD, it should remain quite stable with little movement. I've used a fair amount of claro walnut (the most available kind of walnut out here on the Left Coast) and have found it to be quite stable. I think with reasonable care and thought, your wood will be fine. However, I can certainly understand your consternation due to the amount of money you have in this wood!!

[Mark Bolton]

Just for kicks, a a quick search turns up:

Not to say this is about instrument making, but sticking with the instrument grade and the care taken with such materials....

http://www.themusiczoo.com/blog/2010/factory-tour-inside-martin-guitars/

The second and third image seem to say it all. The third image is their acclimation and it looks like little to no stickering to me.

http://www.northlandcorp.com/images/whse_lbr.jpg

http://www.abqhardwoods.com/slide3.jpg

http://www.wiblelumber.com/wp-content/themes/wiblelumber/images/lumber-slide.jpg

To sticker or not is of course ones own preference but from a necessity/profitability standpoint its clearly not needed.

[Mike Wilkins]

Put some plastic on the floor before you begin your foundation process. Concrete can wick moisture even with a vapor barrier. If it is indoors you will be OK. Just let it sit in your shop for a couple of weeks before milling for your project.
On second thought; send it to me for use in my next project(s). I promise to take real good care of it. Insert smiley face.