How t choose 'good' Baltic Birch

[Rick Potter]

I don't want to step of Ken's BB post below, so I am starting this one.

Like others, I have been stung on what I thought was quality Baltic Birch, but wasn't. I have asked around, and looked up a few things, and I am more confused than ever. Here is what I have found. Someone more knowledgeable, please correct any mistakes.


My last purchase was done in a hurry, at the local hardwood supplier. I asked for several sheets of 1/2" BB to make drawers, and he said he had it in 4X8 sheets, so I took it. When I started using it, I had already cut down the sheets to bite size, and I found it had voids, and some delamination's here and there. It was awful light in weight too. I suspect the guy sold me the wrong stuff, but it looked like BB with all the plies.

So, I compared it to some scraps of good stuff I had, and did some research:

There are several forms of multi layer plywood out there, including Baltic Birch, Finnish Birch, Russian Birch, Apple ply, and the mystery junk I got.

Apparently, the real stuff has plies of birch throughout. The junk I got had what appeared to be pine or fir plies inside. Thus the weight difference.

The real stuff has outer plies that are thick enough to sand and machine...the junk had outer plies so thin they shattered when cutting or routing.

The real stuff is 5X5 for sure, and I don't know if it comes in 4X8. The junk seems to come only in 4X8??


OK...that is all I could find out. I know cost is one indication, but are there any experts out there that can tell us how to know when we are getting quality stuff?

Rick Potter

[Chris Fournier]

BB is available in 4' X 8'.

[Larry Copas]

A couple of years ago I went to the yard to buy Baltic Birch. The owner suggested I try a sheet of China Birch as a lot of his cabinet builders had switched to it because of cost. It looked good so I took one sheet. It was total junk and I had a similar experience to what you found. The worse part was the delamination problem. It did work well as forms for a concrete sidewalk pour. I will never touch it again.

[Von Bickley]

BB is available in 4' X 8'.

I have had people from 2 different lumber yards tell me that if it is a 4' X 8' sheet, it is not true BB. I'm just repeating what I have been told by people that are in the lumber business.

[Jamie Buxton]

Here's my experience...

True, classic, Baltic Birch is all-birch, the faces are not paper-thin, and is a 5x5 sheet. When it first appeared in the US, it had grade stamps in Cyrillic, so I guess it comes from Russia or at least from someplace that had been behind iron curtain. It is generally good stuff, although I occasionally have encountered a bad sheet. The name "Baltic Birch" gets used on all sorts of other products, so it is worth being careful.

Finn ply and Latvian ply also are all-birch, and the faces are not paper-thin. They are 4x8 sheets in metric thicknesses. Again, good stuff.

Apply ply, despite the name, has no apple in it. It is maple faces on an alder core. It is made in North America. 4x8 sheet. Again, good stuff.

"Chinese multi-ply" -- that's what one of my suppliers calls it. Looks a bit like Baltic Birch -- 13 plies in 3/4" thickness. Low price. Often available at Home Depot. But the core is some wood that smells like wet horses, the birch faces are tissue-paper. It sags like MDF if used for shelves. It can have internal stresses, so it curls around when you rip a strip. It is on my "never buy" list.

[rudy de haas]

Me too.

I bought several sheets from Windsor Plywood here in sunny Lethbridge - turned out the veneer was so thin I cut myself on it. So rule 1: never buy made in Chaina if you can possibly avoid it.

[Mark Blatter]

I believe it does come in 4 x 8, but it is more expensive due to being non-standard. I have used both 5 x 5 and the 4 x 8 and they seem to be the exact same. When I was paying $34 for a 5 x 5 x 3/4 the same thickness on a 4 x 8 was around $80 or so. Recently I have noticed that the 4 x 8 sheets have dropped in price.

[John Leake]

The Baltic Birch I have bought was 5' x 5' and the "good stuff". I have seen and bought some "fake" stuff as well a number of years back. I bought the good stuff from Aura Hardwoods in San Jose, CA.

[Mark W Pugh]

So, how do you tell if it's good BB? Just asking, wanting to buy some and it will be my first purchase.

[Lonnie Gallaher]

This is of interest to me as well. I have only bought one sheet of BB 4x8x1/2. I was not overly impressed with the quality, but it was acceptable for a TS sled.

The outer plys are about half the thickness of the inner plys.
There are some voids.
There are some noticeable overlaps of the inner plys.
There are quite a few plugs on the outer plys, but I have noticed plugs on commercial cabinet drawers.

I don't think I would use this for drawer boxes. The yard where I buy lumber does sale pre-finished-pre-cut BB drawer material. It may be of better quality. I have not looked at it.

[Von Bickley]

My local lumber yard only has 1/2" X 5' X 5' BB and it does not have any voids. This is great to work with and to use for drawer sides.

[glenn bradley]

It is easy enough to confirm the grade simply by asking your supplier. Although plentiful previous to the price hike a few years back, B/BB is getting harder to find in small quantities in my neck of the woods.

B/BB: Single piece face and back veneer. Face veneers are considered clear and free of defects with a light-uniform color. Back allows 3-6 color matched patches, which are oval in shape and egg sized. Inner cores are solid birch single piece veneers.


BB/BB: Single piece face and back. Both face and back veneers allow 3-6 small color-matched patches on average and some light mineral streaks. Tight pin knots may be present. Inner cores are solid single piece veneers.


BB/CP: Single piece face and back. The “CP” back veneers are downgraded from “BB” grade veneers, which allow for unlimited patches and sound knots, but does not allow for open defects. Inner cores are solid birch single piece veneers.


CP/CP: Single piece face and back. Face and back grade veneers allow unlimited sound knots and repaired splits and unlimited patches. The panel is sound both sides and designed for laminating.


C/C: Patches, open knots, and small veneer splits allowed. Veneer lap and small core voids permitted. This panel is not sanded and would be used for structural purposes.

[Duane Meadows]

Moderators: If this post is deemed not to be improper in any way, feel free to delete!

Just because a seller list a product as "baltic birch"... well here is an example.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/specialty-panels/hardwood-plywood/1-4-x-4-x-8-baltic-birch-plywood/p-1479672-c-13334.htm

However the product is list as from Shelter Forest International, which has an office in Oregon and China... they make a product called tigerPLY that is white birch ply made in China.

Don't know how Menards can call this either Baltic or Russian, it appears to be neither.

Here is more detail...

http://www.shelterforest.com/

I guess it is just another example caviat emptor. BEWARE:(

[Andrew Ulsher]

Sorry to bring a thread back to life but few questions from a newbie woodworker.

What quality Baltic/Russian Birch is acceptable for jigs versus nicer applications?

Any advice on discerning bad/Chinese BB from the good stuff?

Is woodcraft a safe bet with the exception of a substantial mark up for B/BB?

[glenn bradley]

Sorry to bring a thread back to life but few questions from a newbie woodworker.

What quality Baltic/Russian Birch is acceptable for jigs versus nicer applications?

Any advice on discerning bad/Chinese BB from the good stuff?

Is woodcraft a safe bet with the exception of a substantial mark up for B/BB?

I have no problem with the oval pathes on both sides for jig parts; BB/BB. If you go to BB/BC you can still get a lot of usable material but, may have to fill a 1-2mm knot here and there. The BB/BC allows odd colorations as well so it isn't as pretty but, still usable if there is a big price difference. Otherwise BB/BB is the lowest grade I fool with. The money you save is lost in spoil and time if you value your work.

[Andrew Ulsher]

Ever use the phenolic faced Baltic birch for jigs?

[Charles Wiggins]

So, how do you tell if it's good BB? Just asking, wanting to buy some and it will be my first purchase.

This describes the differences that you can look for: http://www.woodworkingseminars.com/wp-content/s7334.pdf
My best recommendation is find a hardwood dealer who caters to custom cabinet makers. They'll have it because their clients will demand it. I have one about 45 minutes away.

[Bill Adamsen]

The 4x8 and 5x5 from my local supplier appears identical. Baltic Birch is very consistent where frankly buying other sheet goods has become very challenging (lots of poorly made product). Phenolic faced birch is typically available in large sized sheets only from specialized suppliers. My standard sheet goods suppliers don't carry it. This means you are either ... a) picking it up in some unusual (and typically not local) location, b) ordering enough to warrant delivery with their truck, c) paying exorbitant delivery charges. In short, I never get the stuff and make up my own by gluing on plastic laminate when needed.

[Brian Holcombe]

^+1 to what Charles has said. My local yard supplies high quality BB ply, it's true veneer core. I've cut it into strips, used it for panels, ect, ect and have never found a void in one of these. Never needed to venture elsewhere.

[Ole Anderson]

Ever use the phenolic faced Baltic birch for jigs?

I still have scraps from a piece I got a long time ago. I treasure them. I understand it is still available as sign material, but you are not going to get it from the big box store...

[roger wiegand]

I think it's a matter of knowing your material, knowing your supplier, or both. I've never bought a sheet of Appleply that was bad, I've never bought a sheet of anything from Boulter Plywood (Somerville, MA) that was bad. They have both 4x8 ft and 1.5 m (~5 ft) square material that comes from a variety of sources including the Baltics, Scandinavia, the US and Canada

Clues to junk-- if the face veneer is paper thin, avoid it. If you rub your hand over the surface and can feel soft spots where there's nothing underneath the thin face veneer, avoid it. If there are visible voids in the edges you can see in the stack, avoid it. If the top couple sheets in the stack are curled up like potato chips, avoid it. If it smells like something other than wood, avoid it. If the country origin, manufacturer, and grading information is obscure or unavailable, avoid it.

Mostly I think the best approach is to go to a supplier that relies on repeat business from picky customers. This leaves out the likes of HD, Lowes, Menards.

[Steve knight]

here in Portland usually the 4x8 is higher quality. though I have seen lower and higher quality when buying from wholesale. I ahve cut hundreds of sheets of 4x8 and seldom cut the 5x5 unless it is 1/8" I usually like the 4x8 better. lately I have been cutting 1"

[Paul McGaha]

I was in my local Home Depot the other day buying a piece of Masonite. I was looking at the plywood. I don't think there was a flat piece in the whole store. The storage racks warp it.

We're lucky enough to have Northland Forest Products near us. They have beautiful plywood.

PHM

[Kent A Bathurst]

I was in my local Home Depot the other day buying a piece of Masonite. I was looking at the plywood. I don't think there was a flat piece in the whole store. The storage racks warp it.

We're lucky enough to have Northland Forest Products near us. They have beautiful plywood.

PHM

Dude - you get what you pay for. The unwashed masses shop at THD for plywood - they ain't using it for he same thing you are.......

[Steve knight]

at least here home depot has some american mad birch plywood that is not too bad for what it is. but thats about all.

[Ellen Benkin]

Check the website for Andersen Plywood in Culver City. If possible, go there and talk to them. They are honest.

[Andrew Ulsher]

What is the typical cost of Baltic Birch B/BB? I looked at online dealers and it has to be cut. Woodcraft sells 18mm (3/4") 5' x 5' B/BB for ~$65 a sheet. I expect woodcraft to carry a premium on anything in the store though. Local dealer sells 3/4" 5' x 5' BB/BB for ~$45.

Is this typical?

[roger wiegand]

$69 at my dealer in the Boston area. ($119 for a 4x8 sheet)