How bad is Windows 8.1?

[Dave Lehnert]

Looking to get a new laptop. How bad is Windows 8.1? All I hear is how bad windows 8.X is.
Hate to get a new laptop with Windows 7 as I tend to use my computers for years till the operating system is no longer supported. Like to purchase the latest if possible.

[Ken Kimbrell]

My laptop is several months old now and it has win 8.1. It works just fine for me, but I did install an app, 'Classic Shell' to give the desktop start up the look of the older versions... I don't care much for the Start menu that comes with 8.1, all those 'tiles' don't impress me. :D

[Bruce Page]

Windows 9 is rumored to be coming out next spring.

[Mike Henderson]

Windows 8.1 is a good, solid operating system. I hate the "Metro" interface but 8.1 lets you bypass it. However, I installed start8 to bypass the Metro interface.

Once you get past the Metro interface, it operates a whole lot like windows 7.

One thing I really like about it is how fast it comes up, both on initial boot and from hibernation or sleep. From hibernation, it's less than 10 seconds (this is with an SSD).

Mike

[Jerome Stanek]

If you do go with windows 8.1 get as much ram as you can. I have 4 gigs and on windows 8.1 I only had .87 available but went back to windows 7 now I have 3.5 available

[John Coloccia]

If you have any software you NEED to run, be sure to check if it runs on Windows 8. I have very important software here that doesn't play nice with 8, yet.

[Curt Harms]

Windows 7 is supposed to receive security updates 'til January 2020.

[Sean Troy]

I've been using it with no problems. I still like 7 better but that's what I became used to for a few years. I'm liking 8 a little more each day. Get lot's of memory. 12 gig on mine. Make sure it's touch screen.

[Larry Browning]

Windows 8.1 has it's critics for sure. At first, I too really didn't like the new "Metro" tile interface, and getting to the familiar desktop was a real pain. Then I found a small, cheap ($3.00) utility that brought back the traditional Windows 7 style start button/menu called Startisback (There are several others that do the same thing, but they all work well). This changed everything for me. I went from a true Windows 8 hater to a lover in about 5 minutes.
But, as with any new operating system, some software may have problems running, but if it is software that is currently being maintained by the developer, it WILL be made to work well with Win8.1 or they will be out of business shortly.
Also, the rumor is that Windows 9 (or whatever MS will call it) will be a free or very cheap upgrade to Win8.1 and that MS will be changing their upgrade model so that future upgrades will be more frequent and free.

Bottom line: Don't be afraid of Windows 8.1, it is the path to the future for Windows.

[Larry Browning]

Get lot's of memory. 12 gig on mine. Make sure it's touch screen.
Everyone has their opinion, and here is mine.
I sort of agree with the lot's of memory thing, but 12gig is a bit excessive for the average user. 8gig is a more realistic, and 4 will work for most users.

I really disagree with the touch screen thing.
Touch screens should be reserved for tablet computers only. Laptops and especially desktops with touch screen are more of a hindrance than a help. It is an added expense that will most likely not be used after the new wears off.

[Jacob Muldowney]

Most people only complain about 8 because of Metro. It is a solid os (as far as windows goes.) I use start8. I shut off all of the charms and other win8 features and my laptop looks and acts like win7 with all of the improvements under the hood of 8.

[Mark Bolton]

Everyone has their opinion, and here is mine.
I sort of agree with the lot's of memory thing, but 12gig is a bit excessive for the average user. 8gig is a more realistic, and 4 will work for most users.

I really disagree with the touch screen thing.
Touch screens should be reserved for tablet computers only. Laptops and especially desktops with touch screen are more of a hindrance than a help. It is an added expense that will most likely not be used after the new wears off.

Im just the opposite but perhaps thats because I do a lot of work on smart phones and tablets. The touch screen for me on the laptop is a phenomenal addition. I think the conclusion I am coming to is that your either a user who mentally flips a switch when your on a PC that its one thing, and when your on a touch device its another thing or your the person who can, and wants, to bounce back and forth as the need arises.

One is not better than another but they are different. I for instance find myself bouncing back and forth a lot between touch interface and keyboard/mouse on my laptop but it depends completely on what I am doing. Im having to re-train myself a bit but I just tend to toggle back and forth a lot. For instance having the touch on the laptop and Im browsing a web page and I want to look at something a little more closely or the text is a little small, I just reach up and pinch open and zoom. I tend to use the touch a lot with social apps on the laptop. But then of course in word, excel, sketchup, Im nearly all keyboard and mouse. The times when I go to touch are endless.

I just think its a logical next step evolution in the user interface. The hardest thing to get use to is the smudges.

[Larry Browning]

Here is my main problem with touch screen and my desktop PC. I have a rather large monitor 26", a full size keyboard, and a nice full function mouse. The monitor sits about 24 - 26 inches away from the keyboard and mouse at about eye level. I sit in a nice comfortable office chair where I can lean back a bit while I type and navigate with the mouse. If I had a touch screen monitor I would have to lean forward to reach the monitor and then return to my keying position. I would be constantly repeating this until one day I would realize that I had wasted a whole lot of time and effort accomplishing something I could easily do much faster if I didn't use the touch screen. You have the same situation while using a laptop but to a slightly lesser extent, but if you attach an external keyboard and mouse to it like most people do at home, you are back to the same issue as the desktop. A tablet on the other hand, is normally hand held so your hands are already close to the screen and it is much more natural to control the computer with a touch screen.
A touch screen adds a couple hundred dollars to the price of a laptop, and really brings no added value that I can see. I just know that I would have severe buyers remorse if I spent the extra dollars for something I wouldn't use much at all.

Of course you may feel differently about it and that's fine, It's your money.

[Mark Bolton]

Here is my main problem with touch screen and my desktop PC. I have a rather large monitor 26", a full size keyboard, and a nice full function mouse. The monitor sits about 24 - 26 inches away from the keyboard and mouse at about eye level. I sit in a nice comfortable office chair where I can lean back a bit while I type and navigate with the mouse. If I had a touch screen monitor I would have to lean forward to reach the monitor and then return to my keying position. I would be constantly repeating this until one day I would realize that I had wasted a whole lot of time and effort accomplishing something I could easily do much faster if I didn't use the touch screen. You have the same situation while using a laptop but to a slightly lesser extent. A tablet on the other hand, is normally hand held so your hands are already close to the screen and it is much more natural to control the computer with a touch screen.

I agree with you completely Larry. When I was writing my reply I was envisioning the day when touch is no longer touch and you simply raise your hand and use gestures (likely not far away given the video game industry). I am in a bit of a unique situation with my new laptop as it has a bit of a unique design with the touchpad behind the keyboard (which I never use) and the screen is able to be moved to right at the back edge of the keypad. This makes touch a little more usable but you still have to lean forward as you say.

I am in the same boat though. Comfy chair, lean back, multi-function mouse. And a gain, I am on a laptop. So yes for sure, a large desktop display, 24" away from your face, touch is useless.

I will bet we will see a gesture driven device in the next couple years if there isnt one out there already.

I guess at that point the question will become is computing heading towards a static/sedentary UI (just move your fingers, eyeballs) i.e. Stephen Hawking/Wall-e or is it going to be gesture based like what you see in the movies with someone standing in front of a holographic projection and interacting with it. Bring on the techies! LOL.

[Jim Becker]

Windows 8.1 is usable. And MS is likely announcing Windows 9 in October...it purportedly brings back the "old" Start Menu and is less focused on the "tiles" and full screen apps than v8...a more "traditional" UI.

As to Win7...it will be supported for a long time. It's now the corporate standard, having just replaced XP for the majority of business organizations out there. Adoption of Win8 in that environment has been small. That bodes well for folks who are more comfortable with Win7 currently than they are with v8.x. (Personally, I'm sticking with Win7 for those few things I need to use Windows for, both personally and for work. Otherwise, I moved to MacOS a few years ago...)

[Moses Yoder]

You can say "I like Windows 8.1" or you can say "I hate Windows 8.1". Same amount of syllables. It is your choice. The only real reason I can think of to dislike 8.1 is that people are resistant to change.

[Mike Circo]

It has nothing to do with "resistant to change". It has to to do with usability, logic and functionality.
I work on Windows 7 systems at home and work. Each has two screens. At any time I have 8-10 separate windows active. You functionally cannot do that in Windows 8. At a moments notice, I can call up a file from earlier today from my "recent files" list.... can't on win8. I can find an open another application from the start menu without disrupting what is on my screens now... can't do that with 8.

Windows 8 was designed for tablets. NOT real workstations. Windows 8 is for cruising the internet, not doing real work from multiple sources or using multiple applications. Using it for an eight hour day is a exercise in frustration.

It is not a problem with different, I use Linix too, it is strictly a case of a stupid interface designed to look cute with no regard for functionality.

Why be different if it works? People have tried 3 wheel cars, and 2 wheels and 6 wheels. Just to try to be different and to "change". All attempts functioned minimally, but in the end we go back to what years of functional testing proved that worked. If it provides no value other than being a "Change", it has no value in a functional tool.

[Myk Rian]

Win 8.1 is for touch screens.
If you have to install a shell to make it work "kinda" like Win 7, why have it in the first place?
Look for something with Win 7 installed, and has the Win 8.1 DVD in case you really must have that.
That's what I did, and haven't used the Win 8 disc.

[Duane Meadows]

The only real reason I can think of to dislike 8.1 is that people are resistant to change.

Although it is true most people resist change, its also true that Microsoft hid a lot of the functionality in Win 8/Metro and there is no clue how to find it! The Metro or modern interface also is a giant step backwards in many ways... one of the most frustrating to me is that everything, no matter how trivial runs full screen. That is supposed to be addressed in Windows 9( If they call it that).

Cramming a phone user interface down desktop users(who don't have the proper hardware for it) throats is the big issue with win 8. Touch just isn't a good thing on a desktop... try swiping and tapping on a 24" monitor all day. Think you will have very tired and sore arms. Even Apple uses different OS's on their desktops and ipad/iphones. There is a reason for that.

Also till there are Metro style apps that will do everything the older desktop style apps do, kind of stupid to hide the desktop, isn't it? I agree with Myk, if you gotta add an app to make it work like Win 7, why not just use Win 7.

I am looking forward to the tech preview of Threshold/Win 9, and if the rumors are correct, may well upgrade to that. However, for now.. sticking with Win 7 and Fedora Linux dual boot!

[John Coloccia]

There are some released Windows 9 screenshot. It's yet another pile of dog poo. Microsoft is hell bent on shoving Metro down our throats, this time incorporating Metro with the Windows interface too. Microsoft's market share across all computing devices, not just windows, is about 15%, and it's not due to lack of coolness factor, or even performance. It's mostly because their interfaces are garbage and no one wants to use them. Hey, here's an idea...let's take our lousy UI concepts that have failed miserably in the tablet/phone market, and let's shove them down the throats of the desktop market. It's baffling.

I only really use my computer for work, so I don't really much car. I think the Windows 9 previews look just absolutely awful. This notion of a "flat" interface is completely wrong anyway you look at it, and I can't figure out why Apple started doing that in iOS. Now Microsoft will bring that look to the Windows interface...what's left of it. Oh goody! I always wanted to stare at a screen and wonder which parts do something when you click on them and which don't. It's like a point and click adventure! Whoopee!

There are strange things going on in the tech world, and all I can figure is that there's some UI consultant, somewhere, that's played a big practical joke on the entire industry.

[Curt Harms]

There are some released Windows 9 screenshot. It's yet another pile of dog poo. Microsoft is hell bent on shoving Metro down our throats, this time incorporating Metro with the Windows interface too. Microsoft's market share across all computing devices, not just windows, is about 15%, and it's not due to lack of coolness factor, or even performance. It's mostly because their interfaces are garbage and no one wants to use them. Hey, here's an idea...let's take our lousy UI concepts that have failed miserably in the tablet/phone market, and let's shove them down the throats of the desktop market. It's baffling.

I only really use my computer for work, so I don't really much car. I think the Windows 9 previews look just absolutely awful. This notion of a "flat" interface is completely wrong anyway you look at it, and I can't figure out why Apple started doing that in iOS. Now Microsoft will bring that look to the Windows interface...what's left of it. Oh goody! I always wanted to stare at a screen and wonder which parts do something when you click on them and which don't. It's like a point and click adventure! Whoopee!

There are strange things going on in the tech world, and all I can figure is that there's some UI consultant, somewhere, that's played a big practical joke on the entire industry.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with the apparent obsession with touch interfaces. For traditional machines, be they desktop or conventional laptop look up the term "Gorilla arm". Wait, I'll save you the trouble:). From Wikipedia:


"Gorilla arm" Extended use of gestural interfaces without the ability of the user to rest their arm is referred to as "gorilla arm." [43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#cite_note-43) It can result in fatigue, and even repetitive stress injury when routinely used in a work setting. Certain early pen-based interfaces required the operator to work in this position for much of the work day. [44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#cite_note-44) Allowing the user to rest their hand or arm on the input device or a frame around it is a solution for this in many contexts. This phenomenon is often cited as a prima facie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie) example of what not to do in ergonomics.



Not to mention trying to force a UI that works pretty well on small screens onto large/multiple monitors.

[Greg Peterson]

UI designers are the only winners. The MS OS has failed to innovate, so the only thing they can do is change the way users interact with the device. Who cares if that interaction is efficient or logical. It's different.

[Mike Henderson]

Win 8.1 is for touch screens.
If you have to install a shell to make it work "kinda" like Win 7, why have it in the first place?
Look for something with Win 7 installed, and has the Win 8.1 DVD in case you really must have that.
That's what I did, and haven't used the Win 8 disc.
The problem I had was that everything comes with windows 8.1 pre-installed - and no Windows 7 disk. So I had to take Windows 8.1 and make it work. And once you bypass the Metro interface, it's a whole lot like Windows 7 so it's easy to work with.

What Windows 8 looks like is that Microsoft just took Windows 7 (with a few improvements) and put a front end on it - the front end being the touch (Metro) interface. I'm sure that if you have a tablet, the Metro interface makes sense. But why Microsoft would try to force people with desktop computers and laptops to work with the Metro interface is beyond me. It just makes no sense at all - you wonder what they were thinking.

Mike

[Chuck Wintle]

The problem I had was that everything comes with windows 8.1 pre-installed - and no Windows 7 disk. So I had to take Windows 8.1 and make it work. And once you bypass the Metro interface, it's a whole lot like Windows 7 so it's easy to work with.

What Windows 8 looks like is that Microsoft just took Windows 7 (with a few improvements) and put a front end on it - the front end being the touch (Metro) interface. I'm sure that if you have a tablet, the Metro interface makes sense. But why Microsoft would try to force people with desktop computers and laptops to work with the Metro interface is beyond me. It just makes no sense at all - you wonder what they were thinking.

Mike
And I bet that MS, in hindsight, wondered the same thing. Often these big companies are out of touch with the customer and their needs. They try to fix what is not broken and the result is usually worse. Still MS is the largest OS supplier in the world with over 90% usage on computers world wide. That said i wonder why MS will still require the end user to go thru contortions and have to purchase extra software just to have a usable product? MS should listen and provide an option for consumers.

[John Coloccia]

Here's a preview:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--wgAsHWNRE#t=93

I guess there's a general announcement on Sept. 30. I really hope there's a way to change the theme back to something that makes sense. Everytime I see something like this, I just can't figure out just what on Earth they're trying to do. The flat looking interfaces go against everything we've learned and known about GUI design for the past 30 years. You NEVER want the user to wonder which part of the screen they can interact with. It's incredibly, insanely bad. I would say it's a step backwards, but honestly I'm not sure we were ever this stupid . Perhaps if we look back to the earliest interfaces with light pens we might find something this awkward.

[Robert Delhommer Sr]

Just bought a new desktop for DW and I hate the look of 8.1, may have to try 'Classic Shell' to give the desktop start up the look of the older versions. I know DW is going to be hollering for help a lot now.

[Ole Anderson]

I'm guessing that some time ago, someone produced a study that showed folks prefer the touchy interface, so everyone hangs their hat on it and runs. And the study probably targeted young folks as that is where the "future" is at. Forgetting about the rest of us. I liken it to the "research" that shows folks are tricked into believing they will buy something priced at $9.99 but not $10.

That being said, I do plan on using 8.1 on a church computer being used for video switching, "cut to camera 3", so a touch screen can be used. As I understand it, you still have a choice of using a mouse for the same command if someone prefers it.

[Larry Browning]

Just bought a new desktop for DW and I hate the look of 8.1, may have to try 'Classic Shell' to give the desktop start up the look of the older versions. I know DW is going to be hollering for help a lot now.
Who is DW? "Da Wife"? Also, maybe you should let DW decide for themselves if they like it or not. My wife kinda likes the new interface. For whatever reason, which is beyond me, it makes more since to her. I think the more familiar we are with how somethings works, the harder it is to change to something different.

[Myk Rian]

Darrel Waltrip?

I wonder what Win 10 will be like?

[Paul McGaha]

I think DW means dear wife.

PHM

[Mark Bolton]

And I bet that MS, in hindsight, wondered the same thing. Often these big companies are out of touch with the customer and their needs. They try to fix what is not broken and the result is usually worse. Still MS is the largest OS supplier in the world with over 90% usage on computers world wide. That said i wonder why MS will still require the end user to go thru contortions and have to purchase extra software just to have a usable product? MS should listen and provide an option for consumers.

I think the issue is the same as most everything nowadays. Computers have gotten so cheap that the (forgive me) "nim nod" market trumps the people who really work with thier computers. The volume of places like QVC and HSN selling a whole bunch of 600-800 dollar computers to people wanting the gee gaws trumps the people who actually work with them. Its no different than the tool market catering to home center customers (because thats where the dollars are) as opposed to shops and professionals.

Of course MS knows that anyone in the computer world/IT world is going to know 8.1 isnt going to work so they have an acceptable offering for these folks with 7.

To me its just a continual move on behalf of most all companies to tap into the never ending cash stream thats coming out of all these people who have been living in a recession/near depression. Its ludicrous. Right through it all you can tune in to QVC, HSN, and watch thier tickers go up and up and up. Drive down your street and see every Tom dick and harry driving a zero turn mower and a new car in the drive. But the country is in the ditch.

My point is, they have the ability to (as was said) add a front end on it and make it look like a giant Iphone and by the time the money is spent and the thing is plugged in people are googling "gorilla arm" haha.

[Mark Bolton]

Here's a preview:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--wgAsHWNRE#t=93

I guess there's a general announcement on Sept. 30. I really hope there's a way to change the theme back to something that makes sense. Everytime I see something like this, I just can't figure out just what on Earth they're trying to do. The flat looking interfaces go against everything we've learned and known about GUI design for the past 30 years. You NEVER want the user to wonder which part of the screen they can interact with. It's incredibly, insanely bad. I would say it's a step backwards, but honestly I'm not sure we were ever this stupid . Perhaps if we look back to the earliest interfaces with light pens we might find something this awkward.

I cant agree more about the flat interface. I find myself in 8.1 constantly wondering "what can I do here, and where". But it involves remembering to swipe in from the right, or down from the top, or hovering in the upper right corner, and so on. I do kind of understand the logic because its what all smart phone companies do with phones. They are trying to maximize the efficiency of a small display (even though many are carrying around a mini tv set with them now) so they make all of the user interface disappear in the margins. For some reason we can all remember that the menus are in these hidden locations on our phones but it doesnt seem to make sense on the PC.

I do find it frustrating but I guess for now Im trying to get my head around looking at my computer differently than I have before. I see to love the efficiency of my phone and I guess Im trying to get myself to figure out why Im not able to apply those same concepts to my desktop.

[Moses Yoder]

It seems to me it would be much better if my car flew. I bought my laptop before touch screens were readily available and use a wireless mouse with it, no touch screen. So far as I know, that is not against the rules. I cannot comprehend why someone would use a 24" touch screen monitor all day until their arms are tired when you can buy a wireless mouse and get carpel tunnel syndrome instead. I have shortcuts to all my frequently used programs in the bar at the bottom of the screen and can have multiple applications going in multiple programs and 8.1 allows me to simply click on the program button and then gives me the option to open the screen I want. Windows 8.1 is by far my most favorite interface ever, and I have used 98, Vista, and 7. The fact that a professional IT guy or whatever uses exactly the same interface that a moron like me does seems to be the real problem here.

[Tom Stenzel]

Get ready for a rant. Microsoft has me burned up.

Both of my daughters have laptops with windows 8.0 on them. My younger daughter will stay after school and use the school computers (Win 7) if she has to write a school paper. I doubt if it’s because using a thumb drive to carry the file is so difficult. It tells me just how useable Windows 8 really is when there’s work to be done.



The Windows 8.x discussion reminds me when we upgraded to Office with the ribbon interface at work . It didn’t make anyone faster at their job. All it did for me was to make all the Alt functions from 2 key sequences to three or more. Everyday I had several reports to crank out with only so much time to do them. Having to move my hands from the keyboard to the mouse and back was just wasted time. Having to use a keyboard and a touch screen to accomplish a task? Who would think that was a good idea in an office environment?



When the Win 8 laptops at home get balled up I have to patch them up. Yesterday I was looking at one of the computers and saw an odd process running. I was running a Google search when everything I was doing stopped, the screen went completely dark and a window popped up with a message sorta like:



This program wants to make changes to your computer. Do you want to continue?



Turns out that Java wanted to update. I’ll say this: there is no way the OS should allow any idiotic message like that interrupt what someone is doing. Period. It’s just contemptible.



Last week I installed Office for home (shrinkwrapped box from a store) on my older daughter’s computer. Put the disk in, and entered the product key like instructed. Then it went through the “installation”.



The first time Office was used, it popped up a window about repairing, modifying or entering the product key. So the product key was entered again. Then that window went through a 30 minute “installation and updating” When that window was done, I dismissed it. Then a smaller window popped up, saying the installation was “completing” and not to turn off the computer off. 2 1/2 hours later it was still at it. Later when I stopped to check on it, the computer was off. I turned it back on and the window was still there. I’m still not sure if something’s wrong with the installation or not.



This is after almost four hours that I checked on and a couple where I didn’t watch. Gee, what if I NEEDED the thing to just work? Operation systems and office suites are supposed to be Microsoft’s core competencies. How is it they made software installation so obtuse and fragile?



Makes me think the days when we used Ofis Designer at work were the good ones! Oh, you don’t remember Ofis Designer? Think Burrough BTOS systems. Don’t remember BTOS? You kids annoy me. ;-)



The real problem is in Microsoft's business model. Microsoft's customers are Dell, Acer, Leveno and the like. We are merely users.

-Tom

[Greg Peterson]

Like I said, the only innovation MS does is redesign the UI. The core competency at MS is generating revenue. There is no state of the art in any of their OS's.

[Moses Yoder]

I am using Office 2013 and the program now works in conjunction with the web. It requires a high speed internet connection to install. Once installed, it takes a long time to finish its installation online, I think 2 days for mine but that was a long time ago. This was ridiculous to me as well, all I wanted was Excel and Word simple functions. As I said, I agree Office is now ridiculous. The various templates are handy sometimes but I only use the simple functions generally.

[Jerome Stanek]

Get ready for a rant. Microsoft has me burned up.

Both of my daughters have laptops with windows 8.0 on them. My younger daughter will stay after school and use the school computers (Win 7) if she has to write a school paper. I doubt if it’s because using a thumb drive to carry the file is so difficult. It tells me just how useable Windows 8 really is when there’s work to be done.



The Windows 8.x discussion reminds me when we upgraded to Office with the ribbon interface at work . It didn’t make anyone faster at their job. All it did for me was to make all the Alt functions from 2 key sequences to three or more. Everyday I had several reports to crank out with only so much time to do them. Having to move my hands from the keyboard to the mouse and back was just wasted time. Having to use a keyboard and a touch screen to accomplish a task? Who would think that was a good idea in an office environment?



When the Win 8 laptops at home get balled up I have to patch them up. Yesterday I was looking at one of the computers and saw an odd process running. I was running a Google search when everything I was doing stopped, the screen went completely dark and a window popped up with a message sorta like:



This program wants to make changes to your computer. Do you want to continue?



Turns out that Java wanted to update. I’ll say this: there is no way the OS should allow any idiotic message like that interrupt what someone is doing. Period. It’s just contemptible.



Last week I installed Office for home (shrinkwrapped box from a store) on my older daughter’s computer. Put the disk in, and entered the product key like instructed. Then it went through the “installation”.



The first time Office was used, it popped up a window about repairing, modifying or entering the product key. So the product key was entered again. Then that window went through a 30 minute “installation and updating” When that window was done, I dismissed it. Then a smaller window popped up, saying the installation was “completing” and not to turn off the computer off. 2 1/2 hours later it was still at it. Later when I stopped to check on it, the computer was off. I turned it back on and the window was still there. I’m still not sure if something’s wrong with the installation or not.



This is after almost four hours that I checked on and a couple where I didn’t watch. Gee, what if I NEEDED the thing to just work? Operation systems and office suites are supposed to be Microsoft’s core competencies. How is it they made software installation so obtuse and fragile?



Makes me think the days when we used Ofis Designer at work were the good ones! Oh, you don’t remember Ofis Designer? Think Burrough BTOS systems. Don’t remember BTOS? You kids annoy me. ;-)



The real problem is in Microsoft's business model. Microsoft's customers are Dell, Acer, Leveno and the like. We are merely users.

-Tom
I think there is a free upgrade to windows 8.1 from windows 8 to help with some of those problems.

[Chuck Wintle]

I am using Office 2013 and the program now works in conjunction with the web. It requires a high speed internet connection to install. Once installed, it takes a long time to finish its installation online, I think 2 days for mine but that was a long time ago. This was ridiculous to me as well, all I wanted was Excel and Word simple functions. As I said, I agree Office is now ridiculous. The various templates are handy sometimes but I only use the simple functions generally.
Yes i agree about Office 2013....it takes forever to install and is not "better" than the previous version. I was disappointed when i discovered what MS did to one of their "core" products. There is always libreoffice for free which is pretty good. It makes me wonder just who is hired at MS as product managers.

[Chuck Wintle]

Get ready for a rant. Microsoft has me burned up.

Both of my daughters have laptops with windows 8.0 on them. My younger daughter will stay after school and use the school computers (Win 7) if she has to write a school paper. I doubt if it’s because using a thumb drive to carry the file is so difficult. It tells me just how useable Windows 8 really is when there’s work to be done.



The Windows 8.x discussion reminds me when we upgraded to Office with the ribbon interface at work . It didn’t make anyone faster at their job. All it did for me was to make all the Alt functions from 2 key sequences to three or more. Everyday I had several reports to crank out with only so much time to do them. Having to move my hands from the keyboard to the mouse and back was just wasted time. Having to use a keyboard and a touch screen to accomplish a task? Who would think that was a good idea in an office environment?



When the Win 8 laptops at home get balled up I have to patch them up. Yesterday I was looking at one of the computers and saw an odd process running. I was running a Google search when everything I was doing stopped, the screen went completely dark and a window popped up with a message sorta like:



This program wants to make changes to your computer. Do you want to continue?



Turns out that Java wanted to update. I’ll say this: there is no way the OS should allow any idiotic message like that interrupt what someone is doing. Period. It’s just contemptible.



Last week I installed Office for home (shrinkwrapped box from a store) on my older daughter’s computer. Put the disk in, and entered the product key like instructed. Then it went through the “installation”.



The first time Office was used, it popped up a window about repairing, modifying or entering the product key. So the product key was entered again. Then that window went through a 30 minute “installation and updating” When that window was done, I dismissed it. Then a smaller window popped up, saying the installation was “completing” and not to turn off the computer off. 2 1/2 hours later it was still at it. Later when I stopped to check on it, the computer was off. I turned it back on and the window was still there. I’m still not sure if something’s wrong with the installation or not.



This is after almost four hours that I checked on and a couple where I didn’t watch. Gee, what if I NEEDED the thing to just work? Operation systems and office suites are supposed to be Microsoft’s core competencies. How is it they made software installation so obtuse and fragile?



Makes me think the days when we used Ofis Designer at work were the good ones! Oh, you don’t remember Ofis Designer? Think Burrough BTOS systems. Don’t remember BTOS? You kids annoy me. ;-)



The real problem is in Microsoft's business model. Microsoft's customers are Dell, Acer, Leveno and the like. We are merely users.

-Tom
Are you able to return to a previous version of MS office? I like the 2010 version much better than the 2013 version.

[Larry Browning]

I wonder what the OP did? Has this thread been helpfull to him?

[Tom Stenzel]

Are you able to return to a previous version of MS office? I like the 2010 version much better than the 2013 version.

This IS Office 2010. I just installed the 3rd license of a 3 license package. There was no network activity during the install until it reached the third install window. It downloaded something for about 45 minutes. The rest was just the hard drive chattering away.

Updating from 8.0 to 8.1 isn't in the cards. Because the update comes from the Microsoft store, EACH laptop has to download it. That's over 3 gig PER laptop. Plus if the OS needs re-installation the download has to occur yet again. It's just a non-starter.

I went to the Microsoft site to see about getting the update on a DVD, when I went there I was stymied. Why? I used my XP box to go to the Microsoft site. YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT! YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE UPGRADE.

So I need Win 8 on my machine to support other computers that do have it?

Ain't happening.

Remember too that after I had to reinstall Windows 7 on my wife's laptop, the updating took two DAYS because of a seriously broken update system. And that's the OS that everyone counts on to be the good one.

When I picked up this XP box off the curb it didn't come with the recovery disks. If the OS bellies up, it'll be a Linux box after that. No dual boot, no looking back.

-Tom

[Curt Harms]

Darrel Waltrip?

I wonder what Win 10 will be like?

It sounds like you've been dealing with computers & MS long enough to know the likely answer to that;). Even number and all.

[paul cottingham]

The answer to the OPs question is: really bad.
Of course, I recommend a steady diet of Linux as the cure. :-)
J/k of course, I just can't help myself.

[Dave Lehnert]

I wonder what the OP did? Has this thread been helpfull to him?

Yes, very helpful. Been reading everything written.

I plan to hold off for now and see what MS has to announce at the end of the month. But like everything, what makes one think the new Windows won't have problems.

[Larry Browning]

Yes, very helpful. Been reading everything written.

I plan to hold off for now and see what MS has to announce at the end of the month. But like everything, what makes one think the new Windows won't have problems.
I hope you realize that there is some misleading information laced throughout this thread, along with good information. Which is which is not clear. The only way you are going to know for yourself is to actually try it out and make your own informed opinion. I am not sure what good holding off will do for you. Even after MS makes their announcement, it will be sometime next year before the newest windows will be available. And even then the same debate will rage on.

[eugene thomas]

i think windows 8- 8.1 are crap. spend half hour just trying to find anything simple. Am sure when 9 comes up if like will get the great option of giving Microsoft some money to get this crappy system off my computer.

[Myk Rian]

And there you have it. Eugene doesn't mince words. :)

[Larry Browning]

Yeah, I wish Eugene would tell us how he really feels about it. He has always been a little wishy washy about his opinions!:eek:

I'm also thinking he is a good candidate for Linux..... Paul, you listening??????

[Curt Harms]

i think windows 8- 8.1 are crap. spend half hour just trying to find anything simple. Am sure when 9 comes up if like will get the great option of giving Microsoft some money to get this crappy system off my computer.

Or install classicshell, start8, startisback or something like that. But yeah, Larry has a good suggestion :) if you can make the software work. I read threads about malware, browser issues and other MS maladies and think to myself "You know - I really miss that - like I miss having a 'social disease' ":p.

[paul cottingham]

Or install classicshell, start8, startisback or something like that. But yeah, Larry has a good suggestion :) if you can make the software work. I read threads about malware, browser issues and other MS maladies and think to myself "You know - I really miss that - like I miss having a 'social disease' ":p.

Yet again, the need for a "like" button surfaces! :D
Oh, and you missed -paying for badly written software, constant updates that you dread, in case they break something, bloated software, and (the thing you'll miss the least) listening to Paul (me) constantly telling you to upgrade to Linux.:p

[Chuck Wintle]

Yet again, the need for a "like" button surfaces! :D
Oh, and you missed -paying for badly written software, constant updates that you dread, in case they break something, bloated software, and (the thing you'll miss the least) listening to Paul (me) constantly telling you to upgrade to Linux.:p
i agree Linux is a good OS and they have made great strides lately to make it very friendly to most users. My beef with linux is that it does not run any of my programs that i use in windows. yes there may be equivalents available in linux but the these must be found and made to work. i think Windows will continue to reign supreme in the world of OS's simply becuase it is much easier to use andn there is a lot of software written for it.

[paul cottingham]

One or two comments and then I'll quit. Windows is NOT easier to use than Linux. It is what people are used to. In fact, in many ways it is harder to use, because it is so hard to secure, and many simple admin tasks are very hard to do on windows. And windows 8, with its new interface obliterates that advantage. In fact, the dumbest compiputer user amongst my friends finally gave up on windows when XP support ended, and has moved to Ubuntu. He is much happier, and the biweekly phone calls for help have stopped.
as for apps, well, every time a windows app updates or changes, people need to learn a new interface. So the whole "I need to learn a new way of using my apps" argument doesn't hold water either.
where I will admit there is a difference is in apps like illustrator. The GiMP is harder to use, but just as powerful. And that gap is closing.

[Justin Ludwig]

I uninstalled Win8 the day I bought my new lap top (almost a year ago). It had no features that interested me and still doesn't.

[Tom Stenzel]

Now that I’ve vented my spleen about Windows and Microsoft in general, let me point out the good points of Windows 8.

So far I’ve seen no problems with applications just crashing for no reason. I have yet to see Windows 8.0 keel over at all. Ever. It's stable.

The control panel is improved over the one in Win XP. The Task manager is vastly improved. When I’m handed one of the machines it’s because one of my daughters have gone on the ‘net and got caught up in the usual internet brambles and picker bushes. So far it’s been fairly easy to sort out the problems.

My one daughter runs the Sony Vegas video editing software on her minimally specced out laptop. More RAM would make it faster but it works, no crashes.

There haven’t been any problems with the operating system. It’s the user interface that everyone up in arms.

If you can live with the interface Windows 8 is OK.

No matter what version of windows you have, my advise is the same. Once you get the machine sorted out installing the software you want on it, updating and binning the junk software that comes with it, use a disk imaging or clone software to make a snapshot of the hard drive. Save all the work you put into it up to that point.

-Tom

[Mike Henderson]

Yep, now that I got rid of the Metro interface, I find Windows 8.1 to be a good, stable, fast operating system. I like it better than Windows 7.

If it didn't have the Metro interface, I think people would give it high marks.

Just a comment about phone and tablet interfaces. Both the iPhone and Android operating systems use a similar human interface. It seems to work pretty well and it's similar enough that you can move from one to the other pretty easily. I don't think the Metro interface is going to gain any traction.

And beyond that, I don't think there's room for more than two major operating systems in the smartphone and tablet market (reason: developers can't support a lot of different operating systems). And the iPhone and Android devices each have a very significant market share. It's highly unlikely that Microsoft is going to be able to break into that market and gain any significant market share. They were just too late.

And forcing the Metro interface on Windows users is not going to make them a player.

Mike

[John Coloccia]

So just HOW bad is Windows 8? THIS bad:

http://news.yahoo.com/confirmed-windows-9-free-upgrade-windows-8-users-133033409.html

And if they think they have to give it away for people to upgrade, it sounds like they may already be thinking they've missed the mark with Windows 9 too.

IMHO.