Any need for a RAS if you have a 12" SCMS? Thoughts appreciated.

[Drew Pavlak]

Hello,

I am finally getting moved into my new show and I am wondering if there is a real need for a RAS any more. I have a 80's to early 90's model Craftsman RAS that I am not entirely sure that I want to keep any longer and thought I would see if you all could help me convince my self that I don't need it any more. I have never been able to trust it for finish cuts, so I am leaning on getting rid of it, but wanted some opinions if you are willing. My intention was to use it to knock down rough lumber before I Joint and Plane it. Other than that I am not sure I see a need for it. I do have one of those Molder attachment wheels, but it looks way to dangerous. Router or Router Table seems way more functional.

I do have a Milwaukee 12" SCMS.

Thanks,

[Peter Kelly]

Keep it! I've got an early 1970s Craftsman installed in the barn I store lumber in. If you've got the space, it's perfect for roughing stuff down before bringing into the shop.

[HANK METZ]

Keep it if you can, you won't get anything for it and the slight utility you do get may be all you need. Some have converted it to simply using it as a disk sander or mounting a grinding wheel to it.

[Tom M King]

I use both all the time. My RAS is kept fine tuned to only cut 90 degree crosscuts.

[Peter Quinn]

I don't care for that era of CMan RAS having grown up using my dads, but I do like an RAS for roughing lumber, a SCMS doesn't deal well with rough twisties, very dangerous IMO. So maybe save it, maybe save a space for a RAS and keep eyes open for an old dewalt or delta or similar, or dump it and buy a good skill saw if space is more a premium than utility.

[Bill Orbine]

I don't care for that era of CMan RAS having grown up using my dads, but I do like an RAS for roughing lumber, a SCMS doesn't deal well with rough twisties, very dangerous IMO. So maybe save it, maybe save a space for a RAS and keep eyes open for an old dewalt or delta or similar, or dump it and buy a good skill saw if space is more a premium than utility.

You've echoed my thoughts. People consider the SCMS more worthy because they all have this crappy Crapsman RAS. Yes, once you get your hands on an older Dewalt, Delta, Rockwell or all most anything but Crapsman......I believe you'll appreciate the RAS over SCMS. Also like others say, my RAS is dedicated to 90 degrees cuts.

[Justin Ludwig]

I use both all the time. My RAS is kept fine tuned to only cut 90 degree crosscuts.

+1.

I have my SCMS on a stand ready for odd ball angle cuts and what not in the shop. I have 2 tables I built for it and that set up is ready for the road.

My RN450 is dialed in with 8' of table left and right. I have an incra fence and measuring system set up to 1/32". Makes cutting face frames and door stock to length a piece of cake. Only thing better would be a tiger stop.

I think it depends a lot on what work you do.

[jack forsberg]

i am with the others get a real RAS and ditch the craftsman. a good one is cheap at $150 max . Can your SCMS cut a tenon like my Delta with a head in it? so if you not making joints in your work i can not see a use for Ya.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFRP-K3DFNM&list=UUI6jpIs2zjN9DmVvK2ZAWXA&index=80

[Peter Quinn]

i am with the others get a real RAS and ditch the craftsman. a good one is cheap at $150 max . Can your SCMS cut a tenon like my Delta with a head in it? so if you not making joints in your work i can not see a use for Ya.



I've learned to wear a lobster bib before launching one of Jack's vids...helps deflect the inevitable drool! My DeWalt isn't that nice, but has a 10" dado stack on it presently, making some cedar soffit vent that would be near impossible or at least very unpleasant any other way, childs play on the RAS. I can't stack a dado on a SCMS. Want a truly fascinating experience.....put a wobble dado on a C'man and try to make tenons...real joy there.

[Tom M King]

In defense of the Craftsman, I'm still using the 12" I bought new in 1973. It cuts perfectly. It cuts perfectly because I've never used it for cutting rough lumber to length with it, nor did anything else to let the blade lockup in a piece of wood. I would buy a better one if I needed it for what I do. The rollers on the cast iron arm have eccentric centers, that you can fiddle with to get all the play out of, and have zero slop. I haven't adjusted mine for at least twenty years, and it will still make a tearout free cut.

Now, I wouldn't go out and buy one, if I needed one today, but I already had this one, and can do some decent work with it. I'd never cut tenons with a dado stack on the 5/8" arbor, but do cut shoulders with it all the time. Shop work for us is only maybe ten percent of the time at most.

I wouldn't want to be without one of some type that could make a good cut. If I was going to get a new one today, I'd get an Omga.

[jack forsberg]

In defense of the Craftsman, I'm still using the 12" I bought new in 1973. It cuts perfectly. It cuts perfectly because I've never used it for cutting rough lumber to length with it, nor did anything else to let the blade lockup in a piece of wood. I would buy a better one if I needed it for what I do. The rollers on the cast iron arm have eccentric centers, that you can fiddle with to get all the play out of, and have zero slop. I haven't adjusted mine for at least twenty years, and it will still make a tearout free cut.

Now, I wouldn't go out and buy one, if I needed one today, but I already had this one, and can do some decent work with it. I'd never cut tenons with a dado stack on the 5/8" arbor, but do cut shoulders with it all the time. Shop work for us is only maybe ten percent of the time at most.

I wouldn't want to be without one of some type that could make a good cut. If I was going to get a new one today, I'd get an Omga.


Tom i had one of the 12" older CM ras with the 5/8" arbor and it was a great match for my 10" table saw. truly the later model cm were garbage though. The Omga is a fine saw but i think that there are so many out there that you may a well go the the best.

some say the Unipoint by Northfield is one of those in the upper crust and it is very different to many of the common ones

http://eidemachinery.com/images/unipoint.jpg

Stenner of England made a saw in the 50s that was a center privet like the Uinpoint and had built in dust port blow the table.

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the reason i show these is there just like a SCMS in the way they pivet and are in the cream of the crop BuT::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::

the Wadkin CC takes the cake.

Wadkin did make RAS but the Wadkin C family is there Cross cut saw line. I believe they are described as a straight line cross cut.
These were 18" saws with a cross cut of 5 x 27 or 1 x 32. they can take a tenon head for bird mouth cuts that are 4.5" long in one pass. there are other expanding heads(with nicker) for trenching but i will use the stacked blades as wide as the 6" under the nut. Arbors are keyed(removable) and the blades are pin drive.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f79/89840d1383485190-sure-am-glade-ras-dime-dozen-sc000a83d0-1-.jpg

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f79/89841d1383485193-sure-am-glade-ras-dime-dozen-wadkin-cc.jpg

i picked 2 of these up for $400 and they came with 4 set of dados 2" wide and a stack of 18" blades.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f79/89766d1383404809-sure-am-glade-ras-dime-dozen-imageuploadedbytapatalk1383183956.095126.jpg

[Jim Andrew]

I had a craftsman ras that I bought new in 74, moved it to the machine shed after getting a scms, which will crosscut 12 1/2", there was a link on the creek to a form where you could send the carriage for the old cman, and get back 100$, and I did that. They sent a label, and they paid the shipping, and then sent me a check. I was glad to get the 100$, as I paid 139 for the saw back in '74, and only thing I had spent on it for repairs was new rails and bearings. If it had been a good ras, would have kept it. Saw a 220 version of the big commercial dewalt on clist recently, but would not have a place for it.

[Drew Pavlak]

Thanks for all your input. I think that I will try to ditch the one I have and either go with out, or pickup up an older one and recondition it. With that being said I know that there are 2 more craftsman RAS out at my dad's both of which are older than the one that I have. One is Black and silver, with a round knob on the front of the arm, the other is gold. See pics of the gold one. Not sure, but it looks like my dad may have fixed the gold one where the carriage attaches to the arm. You can see 4 bolts and a metal plate there that I am not sure is original.

Also on Craigslist there is a Dewalt that is close to me for sale for $125 OBO, not sure if that is a good deal or not. It is in Ann Arbor, MI. Couple of hours round trip for me, but doesn't look to be in that bad of shape. It has a Green Speckled finish on it if that helps date it.

And to think I had already sent in the recall for this one and it came with a new top and blade guard. I think the $100 were only for the ones that the blade guard did not fit.

[Tom M King]

I'm not familiar with that one. That homemade guide pretty much shot any chances of fine adjustment. The good Craftsmans have a heavy, one piece cast iron arm, replaceable machined runners, and the rollers all have eccentric centers that can be turned for fine adjustment. You can, for a fact, fine tune them to the point that it will cut true for a couple of decades at least.

One of the things that I like a lot about mine, is that the switch is right under your thumb on your right hand that controls the saw. You can grab the handle, and flip the switch on or off with your thumb. I never liked one that you turned on and then reached in for.