Plane Restoring, Paint or Japanning?

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,I have more than one plane to restore, and some of them need the bed cleaned up and either Japanned or painted. I know some use specific engine spray paint, and others use actual Japanning. My planes are not collectors grade, and are intended to be users, so restoring them will not hurt the value. I do like the idea of restoring them to nearly original condition as much as possible, which is why the Japanning.

The "Old Pontypools" variety of Japanning appeals, because there is no baking of the plane. (I didn't look up the spelling on the brand of Japanning so it may not be spelled correctly.)

I have two questions:

1. What is the easiest way to clean off the old Japanning that is still on the plane?

2. Which would you use, Japanning or engine spray paint, and why?

Your thoughts, opinions, and advise are appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[David Weaver]

I'd use japanning if I did anything, but a plane has to be really bad for me to consider it. I favor using a plastic bristle brush to knock off any loose paint and then covering all of the existing with shellac instead. It seals it and makes it look a little bit better.

Back when I was into restoring planes, I painted them with high solids paint, but anywhere an iron hits the paint , it'll just rip the paint right off.

[Sean Hughto]

High quality gloss spray paint. Because it works well and looks great. It is also fairly easy to do well with a bit of masking and even strokes from an appropriate distance.

Cleaning: my first choice would be sand if I had access I guess, but wire brushes and scotcgbrit pas etc do fine.

My prediction is that you already know you are going to do japanning.

[Frederick Skelly]

High quality gloss spray paint. Because it works well and looks great. It is also fairly easy to do well with a bit of masking and even strokes from an appropriate distance.

Cleaning: my first choice would be sand if I had access I guess, but wire brushes and scotcgbrit pas etc do fine.

My prediction is that you already know you are going to do japanning.

Im with Sean - epoxy spray paint on top of a high quality primer. I first use a citrus paint stripper, various pics and wire brushes, etc to remove the remaining japanning, rust, etc. Doing it this way has been attractive and durable for me. But my planes are users and are stored in a plane till above my bench. YMMV.

I bet Seans right and you prefer japanning. If so, can you (or someone) explain why Id want to go to the extra work of japanning "user" planes. Aside from being more "correct", is it more durable or what?

Fred

[Stew Denton]

Fred and Sean,

I am leaning toward Japanning, and it really appeals due to the historic factors. It seems to be a very durable finish, as there are antiques around that are in excellent conditions which were Japanned over 200 years ago.

That said, I am not set in stone. I am old enough that I think about leaving woodworking tools to my grandkids, and want them to be in great shape when they get them. Still, the spray engine paints that folks used seems to be pretty tough and long lasting. David's experience is something to think about, however, in that the paint can come off if struck or scraped.

The main reason for using the spray paint, for me, is simple practicality. Japanning will be more expensive and a much greater pain. It is also getting to cool weather time here in the Texas panhandle, and warm weather helps to cure the Japanning. If it was earlier in the year, it would be an easier choice. Another option is to wait for spring and then do Japanning. Not sure what I am going to do, thus the reason for the questions.

Stew

[David Weaver]

The reason for me for japanning would be strictly durability. I haven't used epoxy paint, though, so I can't comment on it (presume that's a true two part paint). The high solids paint would come off any time an iron edge was scratched on a plane cheek or whatever. It was just a little frustrating to make something look that nice and damage it that easily.

I don't know if it's still true or not, but when I was buying a lot of bailey and bedrock planes, a restored plane was worth more than an unrestored plane if there was any material wear at all on the unrestored plane. So whatever you do, I'm sure it'll come out fine.

If you're single, the oven also helps cure japanning, so I hear. I'd never try it, as I'm married. I would be tempted, though, to make a box out of junk wood with a slide-in pane of glass on the top and paint the wood black so I could drop a plane in on a cool sunny day but still have a very hot environment for the japanning to cure. That's something I'd have done a half dozen years ago, as it seemed I was cleaning up a plane a month... I just never thought of it.

[Sean Hughto]

The reason for me for japanning would be strictly durability. I haven't used epoxy paint, though, so I can't comment on it (presume that's a true two part paint). The high solids paint would come off any time an iron edge was scratched on a plane cheek or whatever. It was just a little frustrating to make something look that nice and damage it that easily.

Hmmm... This does not square with my personal experience at all. I painted the SW jack pictured below, close to 20 years ago and have used it steadily since. I just went to the shop to pull it out and see if I could find anywhere where the paint was dinged or damaged. It is still close to perfect. One of the inside cheeks has a wear line where the blade hits, but the paint is merely dulled, not removed, chipped or otherwise damaged.

And I didn't use any two-part paint - just top quality "Heavy Duty" Rustoleum as I recall.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3274/3029105774_d55b79555e_o.jpg

[David Weaver]

The paint that I used was called "MRO high solids" or something like that. It's possible that it's less durable than hardware store paint because of the composition.

I no longer have the plane I remember chipping (a stanley 7), but I'm pretty sure someone on this forum does. I just don't remember who.

[Sean Hughto]

http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Product/RustoleumUSA/CBG/professional/high-performance-enamel-spray/PRHpsHgrSpL.ashx

[Frederick Skelly]

The reason for me for japanning would be strictly durability. I haven't used epoxy paint, though, so I can't comment on it (presume that's a true two part paint).

Hi Dave.
The stuff I used was all in a single can. I think it was krylon's epoxy enamel. Whether thats a "real" epoxy or not, I guess Im not sure. I never thought about it until you mentioned "2 parts". But it seems to hold up ok for me. Maybe Ill get up the nerve to try japanning sometime. It just seemed like a corner I could cut, at the time.
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

The restorations of mine that were painted were all painted with a glossy engine paint. It needed a few days to get really dry (hard).

Since it has been fine.

The feel of the hands against a smooth painted surface feels better than the rough old japanning.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Hi Dave.
The stuff I used was all in a single can. I think it was krylon's epoxy enamel. Whether thats a "real" epoxy or not, I guess Im not sure. I never thought about it until you mentioned "2 parts". But it seems to hold up ok for me. Maybe Ill get up the nerve to try japanning sometime. It just seemed like a corner I could cut, at the time.
Fred

Paint may be fine, it's playing out so far that I just made a bad choice in paints, looking for a high build paint. Something sticks out in my mind (since sean pointed out rust-o-leum), and that is that everything I ever painted with rustoleum had a bit of a tack to it, and maybe that allows some flexibility that the high solids paint I used didn't have (in that case, the paint was dry pretty quickly).

Two part epoxies are a little tougher. I understand the one-part paints to be more of a paint with some epoxy in them, or something that's designed to look like epoxy. I don't know for sure. Two part paints costs several times what a one part paint does, though. The inside of a plane isn't going to get enough wear for it to matter (as opposed to something like an industrial area).

That makes me kind of curious actually to exactly what the mechanism is in one-part epoxy paints - if there's epoxy in it that's already cured that creates a wear surface, or what.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I used Rustoleum also, worked fine hasn't been long but it's holding up.

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[Tony Joyce]

Has anyone ever tried powder coating? It's pretty durable isn't it?

[Sean Hughto]

Durable, sure. But it's not exactly something most of us could do in our basements or garages. It's rather like jappaning. You need about 400 degrees F to turn the powder into a smooth coating.

[george wilson]

Powder coating-does it ever leave a smooth surface,or just the bumpy surface I've seen on stuff like tool boxes?

[Sean Hughto]

Appliances - like washing machines and dryers, etc. - are often powder coated I believe, and they have reasonably smooth finishes. ?

[Mike Brady]

The paint that I used was called "MRO high solids" or something like that. It's possible that it's less durable than hardware store paint because of the composition.

I no longer have the plane I remember chipping (a stanley 7), but I'm pretty sure someone on this forum does. I just don't remember who.

MRO high solids paint is made by Seymour Paint Co. in Sycamore IL. They have a web site and will ship by UPS.

I have used MRO and real japan finish made from asphaltum powder and marine spar varnish. I hate to refinish planes because it removes or masks some of the authenticity of the tool. Nevertheless, there are times when it is called for. Honestly, the MRO is is much more durable then the japanning. I'm afraid that whatever process Stanley used is lost to the ages. Millers Falls japanning was even better.

I bead-blast the plane first, which gives the casting a brand new appearance. No primer is used with japanning and is optional with MRO. Then you just mask off any areas to be left unpainted with blue tape. After the paint is dry I remove the tape and go over the sole and cheeks with a deburring wheel on a 1750 rpm motor.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/9-1-10001.jpg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/9-1-10001.jpg.html)http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/GPTwo-speed005.jpg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/GPTwo-speed005.jpg.html)

[David Weaver]

Another good opinion - the japanning doesn't measure up to the vintage? (I've never used japanning, and thus don't know of the durability of the new - the old was definitely exceptional).

I agree with your comment about refinishing, thus the shellac if I can get away with it. It's reversible, it usually makes the tool look about halfway between restored and not restored (as in, an 80% japanning tool will look as good as one that's 90%), and it's easy and cheap. Seals off the casting from further rust, too.

That drill looks pretty good, though.

[Mike Brady]

Powder coating-does it ever leave a smooth surface,or just the bumpy surface I've seen on stuff like tool boxes?

George, without having tried it, powder coating seems like a good option. It has by far the best durabilty of any applied finish. Planes made today use it. I think it would look like a sprayed enamel. Only japanning looks like japanning, however, due to its inherent semi-transparency that reveals the edges of lettering and corners on the casting. One thing I've always wanted to try was mixing clear and black enamel together and thinning it; with the anticipation that it would flow off of the high points. I'll probably never do that because it begs the question of why go to that much trouble?

[Tony Joyce]

Durable, sure. But it's not exactly something most of us could do in our basements or garages. It's rather like jappaning. You need about 400 degrees F to turn the powder into a smooth coating.

Actually, Eastwood has an application gun for $100 and it can be baked in a kitchen oven. Used ovens can be had on CL for little or nothing. Actually most toaster ovens would work as well.

[Sean Hughto]

Actually, Eastwood has an application gun for $100 and it can be baked in a kitchen oven. Used ovens can be had on CL for little or nothing.

I did say "most of us" ;-)

[Tony Zaffuto]

Powder coating-does it ever leave a smooth surface,or just the bumpy surface I've seen on stuff like tool boxes?

I have had items powder coated in my manufacturing plant, with the finish as good as the underlying material: if smooth, the finish should be smooth. I'm not sure why tool boxes have a bumpy surface, but items we've done, have been smooth.

[Frank Drew]

Sean,

I really like that green paint you used; I've got a No. 6 that I've been dragging my heels about cleaning up and I think that that's just the color I'll go with.

[Tony Zaffuto]

The green looks close to "Clifton" green - very nice looking planes with the polished edges of the sole.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Powder coating-does it ever leave a smooth surface,or just the bumpy surface I've seen on stuff like tool boxes?

Smooth as silk if you want a gloss coat.

Here is is a very expensive option, and better if you have other things to paint or access to a boatyard- Awlgrip. It is a two-part polyurethane that will not come off, especially from your hands.

[dan sherman]

for those that live in the Midwest, I'd recommend Valspar's tractor & implement paint. I've used it before and its tough as nails, but takes a while to dry. It's a two part enamel that can be thinned and sprayed. I get it every now and then at Farm & Fleet. It comes in rattle cans a well, though I'm not sure how that compares to the mix it yourself stuff.

[allen long]

The chronicle finish you are asking about is a specific type of powder coating. I have used the black crinkle on some sculpture pieces. The other finishes come out pretty smooth depending on prep and application. The translucent colors are not as solvent resistant as the solid colors. The finish is very durable. I use the all in one sears powder coating gun and the largest size toaster oven I could find (special order through Wal-Mart). You could fit up to a No 5 plane in the toaster oven. I haven't coated plane parts in it, but based on my experience with other parts, the powder coating would work well. I use a thermometer in the oven to monitor thetemperature.

[bridger berdel]

Powder coat can be smooth as glass. Takes a lot of prep of the metal, the right powder and a skilled operator but it is definitely doable.

[Pete Hotard]

I've used the Duplicolor Gloss Black Engine Enamel on the 4 or 5 I have restored. It works well, looks almost identical to the original japanning and is hard as a rock. In the past few days I have been refinishing and painting a rusty fire pit I had out back....Used this paint called Por 15. It is the single hardest coating i have ever put on anything. Accidentally dripped 1 drop on the threads of a bolt i had laying around, after it dried i couldn't thread it into a nut. Put it on a wire wheel and couldn't get the stuff to come off, so i'm pretty sold on it. BTW - the fire pit looks outstanding