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Jay Selway
09-12-2014, 3:01 PM
Hi Everyone,

I'm new here, and new to laser cutting and engraving, so please excuse my naivety. I've recently been introduced to laser cutting as a means to dramatically expand the possibilities for my artwork. As such, I'm looking to purchase a laser cutter for personal use and for a side business selling my art.

From my research, it seems the two brands that keep coming up as most reliable and with the best customer service are Trotec and Epilog. Last night, I used a cheaper chinese knock off at a local maker space, and while we did get it to work, it wasn't without major usability issues. The calibration was off, the UI not easy to use (and barely translated). I'd rather spend a bit more money and get something I know is going to work for my needs, and work long term.

I do rather large artwork, so I am interested in the Epilog Fusion 40 and also the Trotec Speedy 400. I especially like that the Trotec offers pass-through options, for endless size (at least in one dimension). It's also nice how it has slat cutting table (I think available with the 400), for working with irregularly shaped objects.

Since I'm new to this, I was hoping I could ask a few questions.

1. In general, the higher the wattage of the laser, the better, right? My sales rep at Epilog recommended a 60w laser versus the 40w that comes standard.
2. Is Trotec the only company that offers 'pass-through'?
3. With pass-through, do you need to manually reposition your work, or does the table automatically feed the substrate through the cutting surface?
4. I've heard Trotec customer service can be pretty bad (actually heard that on this forum) and that Epilog service is great. Is that true?
5. Am I completely off the mark with brands? I realize Trotec and Epilog are two of many, but I am wary about buying a laser without good customer service and good usability. If anyone could recommend options to me, I'd really appreciate it.

That's all I can think of for now. Thanks so much.

Ross Moshinsky
09-12-2014, 3:17 PM
Have you asked for pricing on these machines? You're looking at some expensive equipment, as far as CO2 lasers go.
What medium are you planning on working in?
Are you looking to cut, engrave, or combo?
Have you looked at Universal laser?

There are a lot of posts on comparing lasers but at the end of the day it boils down to budget and need.

Jay Selway
09-12-2014, 3:25 PM
Have you asked for pricing on these machines? You're looking at some expensive equipment, as far as CO2 lasers go.
What medium are you planning on working in?
Are you looking to cut, engrave, or combo?
Have you looked at Universal laser?

There are a lot of posts on comparing lasers but at the end of the day it boils down to budget and need.

Hey Ross, thanks for the speedy reply. I'm hoping to keep the purchase under $30k all in.

I'll be looking to cut and engrave.

Primarily looking at working with wood, but also likely will mess with other substances as I get more into the work. Long story short, I'd hate to buy a machine only not to be able to complete a particular type of project due to material or size (which is why the trotec pass through is really enticing).

I haven't looked at Universal Laser, but I'll do so now.

I'm reading through some of the comparison posts now, but wanted to get some of my pressing questions answered quickly!

Thanks

Jay Selway
09-12-2014, 3:46 PM
Hey Ross,

I'm not finding the Universal Laser site very intuitive. Is there a particular model you think I should look at?

Also, here's the quote I got for the Epilog 40. How do these prices sound?

Epilog Fusion 40 – 30W Laser Engraving and Cutting System $21,995.00


Fusion 40 – 40W $24,495.00


Fusion 40 – 50W $26,495.00


Fusion 40 – 60W $28,495.00


Fusion 40 – 75W $33,495.00


Fusion 40 – 120W $39,495.00


Shipping: $650 for the Fusion 40.
Rotary Attachment (For Fusion Series) $1,495.00
Air Assist Pump $300.00


Free Vector Grid for Fusion or Fusion 40.
One day of training is included with all machines
Free copy of EngraveLab Photo Laser Plus





Thoughts?

Mike Null
09-12-2014, 4:02 PM
The Trotec service will match anybody else in the business. They had an issue of not enough people and a bit of an attitude problem with one of their people. They have resolved those issues and I believe they may have moved to the forefront in terms of customer service.

For what it's worth, I've been an owner for more than 8 years and never ran into a service issue.

Jay Selway
09-12-2014, 4:39 PM
The Trotec service will match anybody else in the business. They had an issue of not enough people and a bit of an attitude problem with one of their people. They have resolved those issues and I believe they may have moved to the forefront in terms of customer service.

For what it's worth, I've been an owner for more than 8 years and never ran into a service issue.

Great to hear. I've heard many good things, and only a few bad on here. Most of the service and support issues seem to be with the Chinese machines.

Just curious Mike, what wattage do you run on your trotec, and what do you primarily use it for?

Thanks

Martin Boekers
09-12-2014, 5:02 PM
If you read through past posts you'll find steady praises on Trotec, Epilog and ULS..... That being said you'll also find many that have had issues with customer service from all 3... ;)

These 3 brands have been around for quite a while so there are quite a few users out there. It's easier to work out issues and find information than with companies that have only been
around a handful of years.

If your not looking to purchase immediately I suggest going to ARA Show at the end of Jan in Las Vegas.... there you will have hands on with most the manufactures and compare directly,
at shows sometimes you can negotiate a better price also.


Welcome to SMC!

If you decide on a Trotec SMC Members get a pretty good discount...

Paul Phillips
09-12-2014, 6:48 PM
Welcome Jay, I actually purchased a Universal Laser after going to the ARA show and looking at each of the big 4 western machines, (I'll include Laserpro since although they are made in Taiwan they have been around nearly as long and are of comparable quality), I wanted a Trotec but they were a bit too expensive (back in '09) for me and I liked the ULS driver interface the best, I thought it was the most user friendly and that's what sold me. The ULS industrial series does have the pass through feature and Laserpro does also, not sure about Epilog but maybe someone who knows can chime in on that.

Kev Williams
09-12-2014, 7:08 PM
With apologies, I had to chuckle at "I'd rather spend a bit more money..." You say you used a Chinese laser and it was cumbersome- Have you used a "western" machine? I will definitely admit the western machines are much easier to use- Kind of like the difference between driving a 13 speed semi vs. driving a BMW. However- learning to drive the semi can be a lot of fun, and rewarding. I'm still learning the goofy nature of my Chinese Triumph, but every day I'm finding shortcuts to the calibration problems and other tweaks. And for what I paid for this beast - 80 watts and a 51" x 31-1/2" engraving area- I can buy SEVEN MORE of them for less than the price of ONE of those 75w Fusion 40's above...

If you're going western, check into used... :)

Robert Tepper
09-12-2014, 10:50 PM
The Speedy 400 has an excellent reputation. I own a Trotec Rayjet with 80 watts of power. It runs 6 days a week non-stop and has only been down one day in two years of manufacturing.

The price that you mentioned will get you in the door with a good machine. Be prepared to spend more. You will get your best price at a show.

Keep in mind, purchase the largest machine with the most power that you can afford. You will never regret having the extra power and size. Your business will grow.

If purchasing is not an immediate need, than as suggested above, go to a show and see all machines. SMC members get a good discount from Trotec.

Best of luck in your purchase and decisions,
Robert

Jay Selway
09-13-2014, 12:08 AM
If you read through past posts you'll find steady praises on Trotec, Epilog and ULS..... That being said you'll also find many that have had issues with customer service from all 3... ;)

These 3 brands have been around for quite a while so there are quite a few users out there. It's easier to work out issues and find information than with companies that have only been
around a handful of years.

If your not looking to purchase immediately I suggest going to ARA Show at the end of Jan in Las Vegas.... there you will have hands on with most the manufactures and compare directly,
at shows sometimes you can negotiate a better price also.


Welcome to SMC!

If you decide on a Trotec SMC Members get a pretty good discount...

I'm definitely interested in the Trotec. It's just a matter of the 300 or 400. How does one go about getting the discount?

Thanks for the heads up on the ARA show. I'll check it out if I can.

Jay Selway
09-13-2014, 12:10 AM
With apologies, I had to chuckle at "I'd rather spend a bit more money..." You say you used a Chinese laser and it was cumbersome- Have you used a "western" machine? I will definitely admit the western machines are much easier to use- Kind of like the difference between driving a 13 speed semi vs. driving a BMW. However- learning to drive the semi can be a lot of fun, and rewarding. I'm still learning the goofy nature of my Chinese Triumph, but every day I'm finding shortcuts to the calibration problems and other tweaks. And for what I paid for this beast - 80 watts and a 51" x 31-1/2" engraving area- I can buy SEVEN MORE of them for less than the price of ONE of those 75w Fusion 40's above...

If you're going western, check into used... :)

I totally understand where you are coming from Kev, and appreciate your insight.

Jay Selway
09-13-2014, 12:16 AM
The Speedy 400 has an excellent reputation. I own a Trotec Rayjet with 80 watts of power. It runs 6 days a week non-stop and has only been down one day in two years of manufacturing.

The price that you mentioned will get you in the door with a good machine. Be prepared to spend more. You will get your best price at a show.

Keep in mind, purchase the largest machine with the most power that you can afford. You will never regret having the extra power and size. Your business will grow.

If purchasing is not an immediate need, than as suggested above, go to a show and see all machines. SMC members get a good discount from Trotec.

Best of luck in your purchase and decisions,
Robert

Thanks Robert. The sales rep from Epilog has actually been really accommodating, actually extending an invitation to his house to try out his personal laser. I'll be going up there next week to try it out. I will likely try and do that with a few different systems before making a decision. We're shooting for January 1 to pull the trigger, and in the mean time I'm going to join a few different maker spaces in my area to try out their lasers and learn as much as I can.

Everyone here has been very helpful, so thanks to everyone.

Here's a picture of my first project, a custom 36" longboard, engraved with hand drawn typography. We're auctioning this board off at a fund raiser for a young boy that has pediatric brain cancer (read more here www.fearisntreal.com (http://www.fearisntreal.com) or booster.com/fearisntreal (http://booster.com/fearisntreal)).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bz05bl40nwy3ka6/2014-09-12%2021.27.49.jpg?dl=0 (I'm working on a split stain, with the taped off part going to get some hand painted pin stripes and flourishes)

Robert Tepper
09-13-2014, 6:51 PM
Jay,

Mention to Trotec that you are a SMC member and that you understand that they extend a discount to members. Mine was substantial. I won't mention the amount.

I am going to Las Vegas next month to see the 400 model 80 watt and to make a decision about upgrading. Can't hurt top have two Trotec machines.

Robert

Jay Selway
09-14-2014, 12:07 AM
Jay,

Mention to Trotec that you are a SMC member and that you understand that they extend a discount to members. Mine was substantial. I won't mention the amount.

I am going to Las Vegas next month to see the 400 model 80 watt and to make a decision about upgrading. Can't hurt top have two Trotec machines.

Robert

Thanks, I'll do that.


Also, what's up with the universal machines that have dual lasers?? Those look spretty sweet too.

Paul Phillips
09-15-2014, 12:18 PM
Jay, most lasers have an option for dual cutting heads which allows you to cut/engrave two parts simultaneously, and some (like mine) have an option for two laser cartridges, my reason was simply wanting increased power but there are other advantages to that as well, if you have the dual heads you can have more power per head instead of splitting the beam between both heads, the other one is the ULS "superspeed" feature which allows both beams to fire at the same time through a special lens that effectively doubles the engraving speed.

Mike Null
09-15-2014, 12:29 PM
Jay

My Trotec is 45 watts and I use it mostly for laminated plastics, some wood and Cermark. I deal with mostly commercial accounts. Last week i did an acrylic sign job for a museum.

All things considered, my 45 is adequate but I'd prefer an 80 watt machine just for the added speed. I just had my tube re-manufactured after 8 years. Prior to that I had only one day of down time in that period.

The latest version of Job Control is the berries!

Jay Selway
09-15-2014, 3:46 PM
Jay, most lasers have an option for dual cutting heads which allows you to cut/engrave two parts simultaneously, and some (like mine) have an option for two laser cartridges, my reason was simply wanting increased power but there are other advantages to that as well, if you have the dual heads you can have more power per head instead of splitting the beam between both heads, the other one is the ULS "superspeed" feature which allows both beams to fire at the same time through a special lens that effectively doubles the engraving speed.

Wow, that's cool.

Speed isn't a huge concern right now, mostly quality and start-up-newbie friendliness. Since I'm not going to be churning out a ton of products (like rubber stamps or coasters for example), I really just want something that will be easy-to-use, flexible (I want to do some pretty big artwork), detailed, and have great customer service.

That's why I keep coming back to Trotec and Epilog.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get a call back from Trotec. #fail. :mad:

Mike Eastman
09-15-2014, 10:04 PM
Hey everyone,

I'm new here also. I've been using a Full Spectrum Laser for several years and am pretty happy with it. They are located in Las Vegas and the phone support for me has been superb. You may want to look at the following link to see what they have for less than 15K. It has a 51x36" work area and 2 90watt tubes. http://fslaser.com/products/lasers/master-series/master-series-dual-head-dual-two