Another "First lathe" question

[Maurice Arney]

I am seriously looking at the Jet JWL-1221VS mini lathe as my first machine. I like the variable speed from 60 - 3600 RPMs but eventually I would like to turn my own table legs which means I would need more length (the JWL-1221VS is only 20 1/2 inches) so I am also looking at the table extension and stand for this machine. My question for the experienced wood turners is, would it make more sense to "bite the bullet" and buy a larger machine now? Or will a table extension setup perform just as well? Not ever owning a lathe, I can't help but wonder if extending the table may impact the precision in some way, and perhaps buying a longer machine to begin with would be a smarter choice. Cost is an issue only in the sense that I could probably "swing" this mini lathe now but if I want something larger I will probably need to postpone for another year or more. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated!

[Bill Blasic]

Maurice,
If I were in your place right now I might consider the 1221VS but knowing what I know (number 1 what the 1221 and additional bed and leg cost, number two what woodturning does to you think vortex sucking you in) I would definitely look at the Jet 1642 which goes on sale a few times a year at about $1800. This is only about $400 more than what you are looking at in the 1221 and you end up with more than twice the lathe in my mind.

[Bruce Pratt]

The 1221vs is a good starter lathe. The variable speed and reverse direction are nice features. The bed extension bolts on securely. Instead of buying the stand, consider building a sturdy base from double-thickness 3/4" plywood (top) and 2x4's for legs (be sure to cross brace for lateral and forward/back stability). If you build the stand, you may be able to afford the bed extension now. For turning table legs, depending on their diameter, you may also want to consider a steady rest. You can buy one, or there are plans on various forums. You may well outgrow the 1221vs in a couple years, but resale is pretty good.

To argue the other side of the question, it is good advice to buy the biggest lathe you can afford. Just remember that there are almost always annual price increases on lathes.

Also suggest you attend a meeting of a local chapter of the AAW. Looks like there are chapters in Conway and St. Johnsbury. These may be too far away for routine attendance, but a visit or two and conversation with other members will give you additional perspective on your question.

Remember that there are other expenses involved in getting started, at a minimum, gouges, slow speed grinder and personal protective equipment, and lots of other attractive bits of kit later, e.g., better tool rest, more gouges, sharpening jigs, measuring devices, more gouges...

[Maurice Arney]

The 1221vs is a good starter lathe. The variable speed and reverse direction are nice features. The bed extension bolts on securely. Instead of buying the stand, consider building a sturdy base from double-thickness 3/4" plywood (top) and 2x4's for legs (be sure to cross brace for lateral and forward/back stability). If you build the stand, you may be able to afford the bed extension now. For turning table legs, depending on their diameter, you may also want to consider a steady rest. You can buy one, or there are plans on various forums. You may well outgrow the 1221vs in a couple years, but resale is pretty good.

To argue the other side of the question, it is good advice to buy the biggest lathe you can afford. Just remember that there are almost always annual price increases on lathes.

Also suggest you attend a meeting of a local chapter of the AAW. Looks like there are chapters in Conway and St. Johnsbury. These may be too far away for routine attendance, but a visit or two and conversation with other members will give you additional perspective on your question.

Remember that there are other expenses involved in getting started, at a minimum, gouges, slow speed grinder and personal protective equipment, and lots of other attractive bits of kit later, e.g., better tool rest, more gouges, sharpening jigs, measuring devices, more gouges...

Thanks... Good point on the stand! The lathe plus extension comes to just over $1,000. I'm not sure what you mean by a "steady rest." I will research it to see how it might effect my decision.

[Maurice Arney]

Maurice,
If I were in your place right now I might consider the 1221VS but knowing what I know (number 1 what the 1221 and additional bed and leg cost, number two what woodturning does to you think vortex sucking you in) I would definitely look at the Jet 1642 which goes on sale a few times a year at about $1800. This is only about $400 more than what you are looking at in the 1221 and you end up with more than twice the lathe in my mind.

Thanks Bill. I looked at the 1642 1 1/2 HP. Looks like a great machine! Right now it is advertised as "on sale" for $2,110 (marked down from $2600). You are correct... The 1221VS lathe, extension, stand, and stand extension all total up to $1,464. If I can find the 1642 for $1800 then I think that would be a "no brainer." Do you know when you last saw the 1642 it at that price? As I said, it is on sale today for $2,110 so if I could get it for $1,800 that would be fantastic and worth waiting for!

[Thom Sturgill]

You will find that the 1221 (I have a 1220VS + extension) with the extension gives a considerably longer bed than most 'long bed' lathes. Mine is 46" between chuck face and tail centers. For comparison my 1642 is 42" from face of the spindle to the face of the tail stock spindle when fully retracted, but only 36" from face of chuck to point of live center since the tail stock spindle has to be extended quite a bit to hold the live center. While 36" is probably OK for table legs, it could be a pinch in some situations.

For spindle work, you don't need too heavy a table and the 12" throw also limits how large and out of balance a piece can be mounted. I never bolted mine to the table that I made and only had a problem with one piece - a 12" chip bowl that had several burls that made the piece impossible to balance. The 1642 handled it nicely.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

today is the last day of Jet's "Summer sale" - so if you're buying new...get busy.

I don't think you'll find it new for $1800 - but I have seen some used ones recently in the $1500-$1800 range.

[Maurice Arney]

today is the last day of Jet's "Summer sale" - so if you're buying new...get busy.

I don't think you'll find it new for $1800 - but I have seen some used ones recently in the $1500-$1800 range.

I know... Trying to resist until the sale expires :o.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

resistance is futile.

you will succumb to the vortex.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Buy the 1221. It's a solid good lathe. Lots of people have more than 1 lathe. In the future, you could pony up the bucks for the 1642 or the bigger brother the Powermatic 3520. Or 4224. I bought the old version 1014 and still use it. I prefer the little lathe when turning finials and such. Mostly because the 1642-2 draws 10 times the current to turn the same little finial. Out here, at 34 cents a kw, that makes quite a difference. Even having the 1014 and 1642, if a 1221 came my way, I'd swap out the 1014 just for the variable speed. But still would want 2 lathes. Wait, I have 3 already.......
Welcome. You do know that the lathe is the cheap part of turning. Hang on to your credit card.

[Wally Wenzel]

Maurice, If you have any other tools such as a table saw you can build your own extension for that lathe that will serve you very well. Build your own bench and extension and you will be able to build most every thing you want. You can make the extension to what ever length you need to do the things you want.Wally

[John Sanford]

Why not just build a springpole or treadle lathe?

[Paul Saffold]

Maurice,
Here's my $5 extension on a Jet 12-21. A shop made extension is not difficult IF you already have some woodworking skills. There are lots of examples if you Google “homemade lathe extensions”. I made mine from leftover white oak, but any hardwood for the bed would work. Drill the holes in the horizontal supports a bit oversize so you can fine-tune the alignment. Mine is 44” between centers. When I learn to turn I have hopes to turn some chair legs.
Paul

296344

296345

[Dwight Rutherford]

If your table leg design permits, you could turn two sections and join them at a design feature to get the length you want.

[Maurice Arney]

Maurice,
Here's my $5 extension on a Jet 12-21. A shop made extension is not difficult IF you already have some woodworking skills. There are lots of examples if you Google “homemade lathe extensions”. I made mine from leftover white oak, but any hardwood for the bed would work. Drill the holes in the horizontal supports a bit oversize so you can fine-tune the alignment. Mine is 44” between centers. When I learn to turn I have hopes to turn some chair legs.
Paul

296344

296345

Very nice! I'm impressed!

[Maurice Arney]

Buy the 1221. It's a solid good lathe. Lots of people have more than 1 lathe. In the future, you could pony up the bucks for the 1642 or the bigger brother the Powermatic 3520. Or 4224. I bought the old version 1014 and still use it. I prefer the little lathe when turning finials and such. Mostly because the 1642-2 draws 10 times the current to turn the same little finial. Out here, at 34 cents a kw, that makes quite a difference. Even having the 1014 and 1642, if a 1221 came my way, I'd swap out the 1014 just for the variable speed. But still would want 2 lathes. Wait, I have 3 already.......
Welcome. You do know that the lathe is the cheap part of turning. Hang on to your credit card.

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and ordered the 1221 along with a table extension. Although I could spend time making my own extension, I decided to spend the $200 so I could get on with the long list of other projects I have on my list. I will be building my own stand however. I did some looking t chucks and cutting tools. You are right about the lathe being the cheap part!

I am open to recommendations on a reasonably priced chuck.

[John Keeton]

I am open to recommendations on a reasonably priced chuck.Of the major brands, Nova probably is the more affordable, but a lot of folks have been pleased with the Grizzly clone of the VicMarc chuck. Perhaps someone can post the part number.

Whichever chuck you get, just realize you probably will eventually want more than one and it is better to stick to one brand so that the jaws and keys interchange.

[Glenn Howard]

Whichever you choose, be sure that what you're buying is compatible. The 1221vs has the reverse feature so your chuck will need to work with that. I just bought a 1221 vs myself along with a Nova G3. The number of variations of the G3 and inserts was a bit mind boggling. And don't forget to loosen those set screws when removing the chuck insert to avoid damaging your lathe.

[Maurice Arney]

Whichever you choose, be sure that what you're buying is compatible. The 1221vs has the reverse feature so your chuck will need to work with that. I just bought a 1221 vs myself along with a Nova G3. The number of variations of the G3 and inserts was a bit mind boggling. And don't forget to loosen those set screws when removing the chuck insert to avoid damaging your lathe.

Thanks for the tip!

[Maurice Arney]

Whichever you choose, be sure that what you're buying is compatible. The 1221vs has the reverse feature so your chuck will need to work with that. I just bought a 1221 vs myself along with a Nova G3. The number of variations of the G3 and inserts was a bit mind boggling. And don't forget to loosen those set screws when removing the chuck insert to avoid damaging your lathe.

I'm looking at the NOVA 48232 G3 Reversible chuck on Amazon. It looks good but I am a tad concerned by this statement in the description: "It has a dedicated 1-Inch8TPI thread and is only able to be used on the NOVA 46000 Comet II Lathe." I don't know if that means that the 46000 is the only Nova lathe it can be used on, or if it literally means that the 46000 is the only lathe it can be used on.

[Thom Sturgill]

I can't answer that explicitly, but it is possible that it only fits the Comet II.

That would be due to some unusual fit due to length of the threading on the spindle. Normally the insert fits against the face of the shoulder and not the end of the spindle. This allows slight variation in the distance from the face of the shoulder to the end of the spindle without that being critical. If the Comet II has too long a thread, a normal adapter may not seat properly and Technitool may feel that a longer insert may not be stable for spindles with a shorter thread.

On the other hand it could be just a marketing ploy...

[Glenn Howard]

I'm looking at the NOVA 48232 G3 Reversible chuck on Amazon. It looks good but I am a tad concerned by this statement in the description: "It has a dedicated 1-Inch8TPI thread and is only able to be used on the NOVA 46000 Comet II Lathe." I don't know if that means that the 46000 is the only Nova lathe it can be used on, or if it literally means that the 46000 is the only lathe it can be used on.

If you read the description of that model on Rockler's site, it specifically says it's not compatible with the Jet 1221VS.

[Robert Henrickson]

I'm looking at the NOVA 48232 G3 Reversible chuck on Amazon. It looks good but I am a tad concerned by this statement in the description: "It has a dedicated 1-Inch8TPI thread and is only able to be used on the NOVA 46000 Comet II Lathe." I don't know if that means that the 46000 is the only Nova lathe it can be used on, or if it literally means that the 46000 is the only lathe it can be used on.

I would take them at their word. If you get a G3 that uses a threaded insert, you can use the chuck on different lathes by changing inserts. I have a 1" 8TPI insert for my G3 for when I use it on my Jet 1014. I have a 1 1/4" insert for when I use it on my 1642. A chuck requiring a separate threaded insert may be slightly more expensive, but you can easily make it fit accurately on different lathes.

[Glenn Howard]

I bought my Jet 1221vs and Nova G3 all at the same time at Woodcraft. I told them I was confused by the number of different models of the G3 and inserts available. They sold me a G3 model that required an insert (Woodcraft product number 147016) and a Nova IXNS (Woodcraft product number 153008) insert and said that's what I'd need for the 1221. They even took them out of the box and fitted them on to their floor model, so I trust what they told me was correct. That said, I have not used mine yet...still cleaning it up and arranging my workspace.

[Paul Saffold]

There are 3 chucks labeled G-3. I think teknatool could have done a better job naming their chucks. It is confusing.
The G-3 Chuck which requires an insert. The concern for using a chuck on a lathe with reverse is that the chuck could unscrew from the insert in the reverse mode. Drilling and tapping the insert for a setscrew won’t prevent this, it will only hold the insert on the drive shaft.


The G3 Reversing Chuck "is direct threaded for 1"x8 and includes a locking set screw to lock it on the shaft on Mini or Midi lathes that have a reversing feature." (Quote from packardwoodworks.com) I bought this one from Packard. It fits tight to the shoulder on the drive on my Jet 12-21.



The G-3 Comet II Reversible Chuck which has this note on the Teknatool website "Note: If you don't have a NOVA Comet II Midi Lathe you cannot use this chuck.”

[Maurice Arney]

There are 3 chucks labeled G-3. I think teknatool could have done a better job naming their chucks. It is confusing.
The G-3 Chuck which requires an insert. The concern for using a chuck on a lathe with reverse is that the chuck could unscrew from the insert in the reverse mode. Drilling and tapping the insert for a setscrew won’t prevent this, it will only hold the insert on the drive shaft.


The G3 Reversing Chuck "is direct threaded for 1"x8 and includes a locking set screw to lock it on the shaft on Mini or Midi lathes that have a reversing feature." (Quote from packardwoodworks.com) I bought this one from Packard. It fits tight to the shoulder on the drive on my Jet 12-21.
The G-3 Comet II Reversible Chuck which has this note on the Teknatool website "Note: If you don't have a NOVA Comet II Midi Lathe you cannot use this chuck.”



Good info thanks. You don't happen to have the part numbers for these three variations do you? The problem buying online is that, when there are multiple versions of an item, they sometimes just list the common name so you can't be sure which one you are getting. I'm going to try calling Nova Tool to confirm which chuck will fit my lathe properly.

[Maurice Arney]

Not to confuse things even more but it seems there is also a Delta brand chuck PN 46-461 called the "Nova G3 reversable chuck" for sale at Home Depot and Amazon.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/accessories/lathes/item/46-461?category_id=32
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Reversible-Midi-Lathe-NOVA-Chuck-46-461/203293649?MERCH=RV-_-RV_nav_plp_rr-1-_-NA-_-203293649-_-N
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0034HNVUC/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Glenn Howard]

Ok, I just spoke with Phil at Teknatool, and he advised that neither the reversible version of the G3 or the version that requires an insert would support the reverse function if used on the Jet 1221VS. The reverse version (and the insert model with the IXNS insert version for that matter) has a grub screw that for the Comet, contacts the spindle in a non-threaded area. For the Jet1221VS, the grub screw hits in the threaded area and shouldn't be used.

He said that if you truly wanted to use the G3 with the Jet1221VS in reverse, he suggested using a plastic spindle ring (spindle washer), which may help to keep the G3 in place while using reverse. His logic was, with the spindle ring, you can get the chuck on a bit more snug than without it. He did say even then, you'd need to use care because there is still some risk the chuck could come unthreaded while used in reverse.

[Maurice Arney]

Ok, I just spoke with Phil at Teknatool, and he advised that neither the reversible version of the G3 or the version that requires an insert would support the reverse function if used on the Jet 1221VS. The reverse version (and the insert model with the IXNS insert version for that matter) has a grub screw that for the Comet, contacts the spindle in a non-threaded area. For the Jet1221VS, the grub screw hits in the threaded area and shouldn't be used.

He said that if you truly wanted to use the G3 with the Jet1221VS in reverse, he suggested using a plastic spindle ring (spindle washer), which may help to keep the G3 in place while using reverse. His logic was, with the spindle ring, you can get the chuck on a bit more snug than without it. He did say even then, you'd need to use care because there is still some risk the chuck could come unthreaded while used in reverse.

Thanks for researching this!

[Dwight Rutherford]

Not sure about the advice to use a plastic spindle washer. Every thing I have read about them is they make it easier to unscrew chucks that become hard to get off.
I run my lathe in reverse all the time for sanding. Always start in reverse from a dead stop and slowly ramp the speed up. I have never had the chuck come loose.
The few times I have turned in reverse, have used a grub screw to secure the chuck.

[Paul Saffold]

Ok, I just spoke with Phil at Teknatool, and he advised that neither the reversible version of the G3 or the version that requires an insert would support the reverse function if used on the Jet 1221VS. The reverse version (and the insert model with the IXNS insert version for that matter) has a grub screw that for the Comet, contacts the spindle in a non-threaded area. For the Jet1221VS, the grub screw hits in the threaded area and shouldn't be used.

He said that if you truly wanted to use the G3 with the Jet1221VS in reverse, he suggested using a plastic spindle ring (spindle washer), which may help to keep the G3 in place while using reverse. His logic was, with the spindle ring, you can get the chuck on a bit more snug than without it. He did say even then, you'd need to use care because there is still some risk the chuck could come unthreaded while used in reverse.

I just went and looked at my chuck and faceplate. The location of the grub screw on the G-3 Reversible chuck is the same distance from the shoulder as the grub screws on the 3" faceplate that came in the box from Jet. The threads where the grub screws contact the spindle are there but have been machined down to approximately half the height of the other threads. I don't see how the chuck could come off if the grub screws are tightened. Before I ordered my chuck I spoke to someone at Packard (I don't remember the name) who confirmed the G-3 Reversible was the chuck to use on the Jet 12-21.
Paul

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have nothing against Amazon, in fact, I really like them, but check the bidding bay. There's a guy that sells the G3 with insert and shipped for less than 140 bucks. I got mine from him long ago. I buy my chucks and jaws from him.

[Maurice Arney]

I have nothing against Amazon, in fact, I really like them, but check the bidding bay. There's a guy that sells the G3 with insert and shipped for less than 140 bucks. I got mine from him long ago. I buy my chucks and jaws from him.

Thanks for the tip. Do you have a url? Is it like ebay?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Yeah, e-bay. Sorry...

[Maurice Arney]

I just went and looked at my chuck and faceplate. The location of the grub screw on the G-3 Reversible chuck is the same distance from the shoulder as the grub screws on the 3" faceplate that came in the box from Jet. The threads where the grub screws contact the spindle are there but have been machined down to approximately half the height of the other threads. I don't see how the chuck could come off if the grub screws are tightened. Before I ordered my chuck I spoke to someone at Packard (I don't remember the name) who confirmed the G-3 Reversible was the chuck to use on the Jet 12-21.
Paul

Got my lathe today and I see exactly what you are saying. The set screws on the Jet face plate make contact with the threads where they have been machined down. So if the set screws on the G3 are in the same position, I see no reason why it would present a problem (unless there are other factors... but yours apparently fits just fine). Do you know what the part number is on the G3 you purchased? Is it the 48232? The one that supposedly will only work on the Comet?

[Paul Saffold]

The number on my chuck, 113103R, is probably unique to Packard. This will take you to the page of their catalog. http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=chuck-fourjaw-nova-ng3

I think Teknatool's nomenclature on the G-3 series is very confusing and not helping their business any.

[Maurice Arney]

The number on my chuck, 113103R, is probably unique to Packard. This will take you to the page of their catalog. http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=chuck-fourjaw-nova-ng3

I think Teknatool's nomenclature on the G-3 series is very confusing and not helping their business any.


It is very confusing. If I were a betting man, I would bet that your chuck is the Nova G3 48232 reversible (The one described as exclusive for the Comet).

[Maurice Arney]

Ok, I just spoke with Phil at Teknatool, and he advised that neither the reversible version of the G3 or the version that requires an insert would support the reverse function if used on the Jet 1221VS. The reverse version (and the insert model with the IXNS insert version for that matter) has a grub screw that for the Comet, contacts the spindle in a non-threaded area. For the Jet1221VS, the grub screw hits in the threaded area and shouldn't be used.

He said that if you truly wanted to use the G3 with the Jet1221VS in reverse, he suggested using a plastic spindle ring (spindle washer), which may help to keep the G3 in place while using reverse. His logic was, with the spindle ring, you can get the chuck on a bit more snug than without it. He did say even then, you'd need to use care because there is still some risk the chuck could come unthreaded while used in reverse.

I just called Nova Tools myself and Phil answered the phone (Really nice guy!) He told me about the spindle washer idea too but I asked him if he could check the position of the grub screw. As someone else pointed out, the screw is in the exact same spot as the screw on my Jet faceplate, which contacts the spindle in a spot where the threads have been machined down. So that's the scoop. I know what is going on now and it is just a matter of preference.

[Dwight Rutherford]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but Phil at Nova (Tecnatool) has apparently suggested twice, a spacer washer to securely hold the chuck when turning in reverse. Read the product description attached. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/112/5507/Turners-Select-No-Lock-Spindle-Washer?term=spindle%20washer
It states otherwise.

[Maurice Arney]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but Phil at Nova (Tecnatool) has apparently suggested twice, a spacer washer to securely hold the chuck when turning in reverse. Read the product description attached. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/112/5507/Turners-Select-No-Lock-Spindle-Washer?term=spindle%20washer
It states otherwise.

Ya... I don't see how that washer would keep the chuck from coming off. Phil's explanation was that, with the washer attached, you could tighten the chuck down enough so that it won't spin off. I would trust the grub screws myself.