Combo Machine Question

[Sean Troy]

I'm thinking of getting a combo machine (Planer/Jointer) and have been following the threads about it. My price range puts me with the Grizzly GO634XP 12" Planer/Jointer W/Sprial cutter head. Right now I have a 13" Delta benchtop planer and an old 6" Jet Jointer. Will I notice a night and day difference with the combo machine vs. what I have now? Thanks for any input, Sean

[mreza Salav]

What differences you are talking about? I don't think there are night and day differences in any aspect (I have a combo J/P) but if you can be a bit more specific you may get more specific answers.

[Bas Pluim]

In a word, yes. I replaced a Grizzly 6" jointer and 13" Ridgid planer with the Jet 12" combo with spiral head (JJP-12HH), and it's been awesome. Having a 12" jointer is really nice, and the spiral head is even better. I have never regretted the purchase.

[Sean Troy]

What differences you are talking about? I don't think there are night and day differences in any aspect (I have a combo J/P) but if you can be a bit more specific you may get more specific answers.

One difference I know for sure will be using up less space, that's a positive. Will it cut cleaner than blades? Is it easier to adjust and keep adjusted? Mine are ok for what they are but an upgrade would be nice. Does the size help with planing/jointing boards?

[Earl Rumans]

I think you will notice a major difference. I have a Baileigh JP-1250, which is very similar to the Grizzly. Having a 12 inch jointer is great and with the spiral cutter head it does a very good job. One of the big differences, with the spiral head, is the noise reduction. You wont believe how quiet it is compared to your lunchbox planner. I have been very happy with mine and the time required for changing over is not a big deal to me. It takes a little more planning to keep the change overs to a minimum, you want to do all the jointing you can and then change the machine to planning mode. You get used to it quickly enough and I have limited space so the space saving was a big factor in going to a combo machine.

[Mark Carlson]

I replaced a Delta 13 planer and a 6in powermatic jointer with a 12in hammer j/p with a carbide head. Big improvements are:
(some of these are assuming you get the carbide head)

1) carbide head j/p are quiet. The 13in delta screams bloody murder.
2) 12 in jointer is huge. 6in jointer is very limiting in what you can face joint.
3) being able to joint and plane the same size board.
4) carbide heads last a long long time, so no knife adjustment or replacement.
5) j/p are very space efficient, not much more than 6in jointer.
6) cut quality of carbide heads are really good, especially on figured wood.

The downside is having to switch between jointer and planer mode. Takes about a minute on my machine.

[Frank Martin]

I had a 13" Delta lunch box planer and 6" Delta jointer and upgraded to that Grizzly. From a type of machine perspective definitely a huge improvement especially from jointer size increase and quiter planer (hated that Delta lunchbox for noise alone). However, the Grizzly, while a decent machine, is made for a price point. I ended up upgrading to a Minimax combo that is in another league in terms of quality. So, if you have other Grizzly machines and know what you may get yourself into (i.e., needing to work on your machine, I did multiple times) then with that set of expectations you may like it. If not go for a euro machine, Hammer, Minimax, Felder, etc...

[Evan Patton]

In a word, yes. I replaced a Grizzly 6" jointer and 13" Ridgid planer with the Jet 12" combo with spiral head (JJP-12HH), and it's been awesome. Having a 12" jointer is really nice, and the spiral head is even better. I have never regretted the purchase.
+1 I love having a 12" jointer/planer (Jet) and the spiral head definitely makes it quieter, not to mention making blade changing easier and cheaper. I went with the Jet based on reviews on changeover time--it takes me less than a minute to switch between jointing and planing, including disconnecting/connecting the dust collector hose.

[Sean Troy]

2 questions. Does the 3hp Jet vs. 5 hp Grizzly make much difference? How are spiral cutter heads on figured woods? Thanks, Sean

[Jim Andrew]

I also have questions. What is the price of the Hammer? Have heard of their silent power helical cutterhead, supposed to run with less hp than the others. What does MM have for a helical cutterhead, and how much does it run?

[David Kumm]

Spiral heads shine on figured woods and give a finish more comparable to high end industrial straight knife machines. As to HP requirements. it is somewhat dependent on the spiral design. Most require more power than a straight knife but not all designs require the same so some knowledge from the manufacturer would help. As to the jointer planer combo, keep in mind that the table changeover is the weak point of the machine. some people use them with no problems, some have problems getting the tables to return to the same spot. The better the machine, the less of an issue, but even the high end machines can be finicky. Do your homework and read some forum info ( Felder and Minimax ). Even if you don't buy their machines, the knowledge is useful. Dave

[Sean Troy]

Thanks all for the info. I'll look into the forums as mentioned also. Thank you, Sean

[Evan Patton]

2 questions. Does the 3hp Jet vs. 5 hp Grizzly make much difference? How are spiral cutter heads on figured woods? Thanks, Sean
I can't comment on the Grizz, but the Jet has plenty of poo for my needs (up to 1/16" removal on ~11" hard maple). As for figured wood, I can get more tear out with a well-tuned plane if I'm not careful than with the helical head.

[mreza Salav]

I have a minimax FS-350 J/P (had a 6" jointer and a lunchbox planer). The extra width of the jointer (and planer) is a significant plus to me.
The change over is not bad but it is there. Also, I have added a digital readout so that in case you need an extra board of the same thickness you can get it after you have changed over to jointer mode. The space saving is a plus. The quality of cut from a lunch box planer can be better especiallly if you are taking a little bit (very light pass) vs with a stationary you need to take a minimum in each pass. Mine has TERSA knives (quick change) which again is a big plus. I can't compare it to segmented knife systems of others.

[rudy de haas]

Yes - you will notice a huge difference.

Other people here have written about noise and space - but there's another difference that may be equally important to you: precision. I looked closely at a bunch of 10" combos and found that the Hammer (in the below absurdly too expensive classes) was easily the best engineered and easiest to use. The grizzly G0690 came in second - it's harder to change over and by default uses knives, but it's half the price- at least in Canada- and very close in accuracy so, for low volume users, by far the better deal.

"Precision" may be a bit of a misnomer - what I mean is first that a cut of X depth is of X depth rather than just close to it (and, similarly, that right angles
are right angles) and second that a setting made today will still be right tomorrow. With the hammer I rather got the impression you could drop it off a truck and have it keep right on working - and the grizzly too, although that would have to be low boy :) but that's not true of others I looked at, so make sure you don't get a nice cast iron top with beer can grade aluminum veniers and plastic bushings underneath.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a Hammer A3-31, have a good look at it before making your decision.

I have the digital height gauge on mine, it allows you to set the height exactly every time.

It will be an enormous improvement over a lunchbox planer and small jointer.........Rod.

[Thomas L. Miller]

Sean,
I replaced a Dewalt 735 planer and Grizzly 6" jointer with a spiral cutter head (Grizzly) with a Hammer A3-31 equipped with the spiral cutter block. While the Dewalt and Grizzly were OK, (I'm only a hobbyist) you will notice a really significant difference with a Jointer/Planer like the Hammer. I can't speak about any other J/P combo, since my Hammer is my only experience with J/P machines. However, the difference is I've seen is significant. It is akin to moving from a contractor grade table saw up to a full blown honked out cabinet saw like a Sawstop ICS. The mass of the Hammer machine is significantly more than the mass of the two replaced machines. The cut is much finer and as Rod said above, you can dial in the planer height exactly EVER time. That is significant. Don't get too influenced by folks questioning the change over time. It takes me about 35 seconds to move from jointer to planer or back. I am really impressed with the Hammer A3. I hope you can try one before you make your decision. I don't have any association with Felder except that I'm really impressed with their machinery. I was fortunate to see and test an A3 that had just been purchased by a commercial door shop in Dallas. They let me run some mahogany they were processing through the machine. The rough stock was 8/4 and we took it down to 1.5 inch x 3 inch wide and 8 feet long. There were about 200 pieces in the lot. I didn't see ANY tearout on any pieces. We weren't paying any particular attention to grain direction during the processing. There was NO Snipe at all. I hope that helps. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.
Tom

[Sean Troy]

Looked at the Hammer videos. Very impressive.

[Earl Rumans]

If you have the money, the Hammer is the way to go. That's the one I wanted, I just don't that kind of money for my hobby.

[Derek Stockley]

I got the a3-26 with straight blades and am quite happy with it. It's a little less expensive than the A3-31, and it fits in the same space as a 6" jointer. I've never missed the 2" of planing capacity I lost when I sold the 12" lunchbox planer.

My one and only minor regret was that I didn't spend the extra money for the carbide cutters, because it would have been quieter, but the straight blades perform quite well. There's only one minor thing you might not think about: because you're using the same blades for both jointing and planing, you'll find yourself needing to replace them more often than you would if you were doing the same work with two different sets of blades. Order an extra set of blades and keep a spare on hand if you get the straight blades - changing them is really easy.

[Sean Troy]

I got the a3-26 with straight blades and am quite happy with it. It's a little less expensive than the A3-31, and it fits in the same space as a 6" jointer. I've never missed the 2" of planing capacity I lost when I sold the 12" lunchbox planer.

My one and only minor regret was that I didn't spend the extra money for the carbide cutters, because it would have been quieter, but the straight blades perform quite well. There's only one minor thing you might not think about: because you're using the same blades for both jointing and planing, you'll find yourself needing to replace them more often than you would if you were doing the same work with two different sets of blades. Order an extra set of blades and keep a spare on hand if you get the straight blades - changing them is really easy.

I was wondering the same thing about the 10". I'm not sure I would or have planed anything over 10".

[John Sanford]

Upsides to J/P vs your current setup:

Only one machine to worry about.
12" (or bigger) jointer that essentially comes with a free size matched planer.
Helical segmented cutterheads are da bomb.
Not nearly as noisy as a lunchbox planer.

Downsides.

Shorter jointer beds than a comparable width dedicated jointer. Maybe a few inches longer than what you've got now.
Jointer fence not as stout.
Need more powah. (i.e. gonna need 240v power)
Heavier
Changing over.


Now, if you have the room and can swing the finances, best option is to get as big of a J/P as you can, and keep the existing two machines. Use the 6" jointer as a dedicated edge jointer, just leave it setup for that. Use the lunchbox planer for planing gnarly stuff that you'd rather not put through the good machine.

Keep an eye on Craigslist, and here at the Creek, for used machines. I was able to get a Mini-Max FS30 (i.e. 12" J/P) for $1,300 off the local equivalent to CL. I now have power to it, and as soon as I figure out how to setup for processing a bunch of 9-10' 8/4 chunks of hard maple, I'll be goin' to town with it this week. The downside of course is that it's used machine. I hope to be putting a Byrd Shelix head into sometime soon, but that's #3 (or perhaps #4) on my list of Desired Large Shop Expenses, behind an electrical wiring & lighting upgrade, a tablesaw upgrade and D/C upgrade.

[J. Greg Jones]

Sean, I had the long bed 6" Jet jointer and a DeWalt 735 and upgraded to a Jet JJP-12 when the first came out. This summer I swapped out the knives for a Byrd head, and I'm very pleased with the decision to go with a combo machine. If you ever travel over to this part of the state, you are more than welcome to drop in and run some test boards through mine.

[Sean Troy]

Upsides to J/P vs your current setup:

Only one machine to worry about.
12" (or bigger) jointer that essentially comes with a free size matched planer.
Helical segmented cutterheads are da bomb.
Not nearly as noisy as a lunchbox planer.

Downsides.

Shorter jointer beds than a comparable width dedicated jointer. Maybe a few inches longer than what you've got now.
Jointer fence not as stout.
Need more powah. (i.e. gonna need 240v power)
Heavier
Changing over.


Now, if you have the room and can swing the finances, best option is to get as big of a J/P as you can, and keep the existing two machines. Use the 6" jointer as a dedicated edge jointer, just leave it setup for that. Use the lunchbox planer for planing gnarly stuff that you'd rather not put through the good machine.

Keep an eye on Craigslist, and here at the Creek, for used machines. I was able to get a Mini-Max FS30 (i.e. 12" J/P) for $1,300 off the local equivalent to CL. I now have power to it, and as soon as I figure out how to setup for processing a bunch of 9-10' 8/4 chunks of hard maple, I'll be goin' to town with it this week. The downside of course is that it's used machine. I hope to be putting a Byrd Shelix head into sometime soon, but that's #3 (or perhaps #4) on my list of Desired Large Shop Expenses, behind an electrical wiring & lighting upgrade, a tablesaw upgrade and D/C upgrade.

Wiring is there so that's not an issue. Enough room would be the problem that's one of the reasons I'm looking at getting a combo machine.

[Sean Troy]

Sean, I had the long bed 6" Jet jointer and a DeWalt 735 and upgraded to a Jet JJP-12 when the first came out. This summer I swapped out the knives for a Byrd head, and I'm very pleased with the decision to go with a combo machine. If you ever travel over to this part of the state, you are more than welcome to drop in and run some test boards through mine.
Nice specs on that machine with heilcal head. I may take you up on your offer. We may be going to UK in the near future for a meeting with admissions for my daughter. I'll let you know well in advance. Thanks, Sean

[Sean Troy]

I notice amperage on the combo machines is from 12.5 to 25 amps and 3-5 hp. 240v. Is amperage a sign of efficiency of the motor in any way?

[Jim Becker]

Yes, you'll notice a difference. Heavier machine and for the particular unit you mention, the spiral cutter should provide a much better finish. I've had a J/P combo for many years now and don't in any way regret that decision! (other than wishing it was even wider than the 13.6" ... 350mm ... it is. LOL)

[Alan Beech]

Most people assume that a combo will take less room than standalones. I would argue not.

My Felder AF741 needs a space of about 12ft by 18ft to operate with 4x8 sheets or say 6x1 8ft long. Thats 8ft in front of the blade edge and 8ft after to run material through it.

A few other drawbacks are that unless you add the micro adjust features then getting back to a specific size after altering the set up can be tricky and slow.

I tolerate the space hog in exchange for convenience and dead on accuracy.

Al

[Sean Troy]

Yes, you'll notice a difference. Heavier machine and for the particular unit you mention, the spiral cutter should provide a much better finish. I've had a J/P combo for many years now and don't in any way regret that decision! (other than wishing it was even wider than the 13.6" ... 350mm ... it is. LOL)
Thanks Jim. I'm glad I planed ahead when I built my shop and installed some extra 220 20 and 25 amp.

[Chris Padilla]

I notice amperage on the combo machines is from 12.5 to 25 amps and 3-5 hp. 240v. Is amperage a sign of efficiency of the motor in any way?

Not really. Efficiency is power out over power in or pout/pin. You'll never get that ratio to 1 but you'd like to come as close as possible. Power factor or pf is also a term you'd like to get as close to 1 as possible as it relates the efficiency of the useable electricity from a motor (an inductive load) so it is related to the overall efficiency of the motor.

[Sean Troy]

Most people assume that a combo will take less room than standalones. I would argue not.

My Felder AF741 needs a space of about 12ft by 18ft to operate with 4x8 sheets or say 6x1 8ft long. Thats 8ft in front of the blade edge and 8ft after to run material through it.

A few other drawbacks are that unless you add the micro adjust features then getting back to a specific size after altering the set up can be tricky and slow.

I tolerate the space hog in exchange for convenience and dead on accuracy.

Al
Hi Alan, different kind of combo machine I'm talking about. I'm speaking about a jointer/planer combo machine.

[Rod Sheridan]

Not really. Efficiency is power out over power in or pout/pin. You'll never get that ratio to 1 but you'd like to come as close as possible. Power factor or pf is also a term you'd like to get as close to 1 as possible as it relates the efficiency of the useable electricity from a motor (an inductive load) so it is related to the overall efficiency of the motor.

In addition to what Chris said, when you see two motors of the same power output with different input currents, the motor with the higher input current has lower power factor and efficiency than the motor with the lower input current.

In other words, higher input current is a negative parameter for a motor.............Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Alan, different kind of combo machine I'm talking about. I'm speaking about a jointer/planer combo machine.

Alan was correct about how much space a large slider requires, however a cabinet saw does as well if you want to process sheet goods.

I have 2 combination machines, a jointer/planer and a saw/shaper. Both save substantial space over separate machines, and have much more capacity and capability than standard NA style machines............Rod.

[Jim Becker]

I have both the J/P and a separate slider. Yes, the latter does require a bit of space for full throw of the 8'6" wagon, but it's also pretty compact when I take the outrigger off. That said, the OP's current needs seem to be just the J/P and they are great machines for both capacity and shop space, IMHO. (that has remained my opinion over nearly ten years of ownership)

[Kenneth Walton]

I replaced a grizzly 6 inch jointer and dewalt dw735 (both with aftermarket spiral heads) with a jet jjp-12hh with helical head. A few hiccups and mods (like replacing the motor cover with mesh and adding a wixey height gauge), but otherwise night and day difference. Zero snipe, gallons more power, quiet enough that I can plane while the baby sleeps on the second floor, and 12 inches of jointing glory so I don't have to cut down those beautiful wide planks.

I'd love some Felder style jointer extension tables for when I get over 5', but otherwise a joy to use. FYI my budget electrician installed a 15 amp 220v circuit because the motor is rated 12.5 amps, and I've never tripped the breaker.

[Erik Loza]

...I'd love some Felder style jointer extension tables for when I get over 5'...

296555
http://www.simantechinc.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=36&name=TABLE%20EXTENSION%20COMPLETE%20WITH%20MOUNTIN G%20RAIL
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?73025-Aigner-Extension-Tables
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?206223-Anyone-here-using-Aigner-extension-tables
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/swmf.pl?read=745554

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Curt Harms]

296555
http://www.simantechinc.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=36&name=TABLE%20EXTENSION%20COMPLETE%20WITH%20MOUNTIN G%20RAIL
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?73025-Aigner-Extension-Tables
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?206223-Anyone-here-using-Aigner-extension-tables
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/swmf.pl?read=745554

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Erik, I've thought about something like that. My concern is that the 'lip' of my Jet JJP-12 is not square to the jointer tables, it's about 1/16" off if I recall correctly. Will that affect how the extensions mount? Shim the mating part to square?

[Erik Loza]

Erik, I've thought about something like that. My concern is that the 'lip' of my Jet JJP-12 is not square to the jointer tables, it's about 1/16" off if I recall correctly. Will that affect how the extensions mount? Shim the mating part to square?

Should not be a problem. In fact, rare that the mounting surface is completely perpendicular to the cast iron table. Since they don't actually thread into the cast iron table, just drill the holes slightly over-sized to give your self some wiggle room. Hope this helps,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Curt Harms]

Should not be a problem. In fact, rare that the mounting surface is completely perpendicular to the cast iron table. Since they don't actually thread into the cast iron table, just drill the holes slightly over-sized to give your self some wiggle room. Hope this helps,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Thanks Erik

[Jim Becker]

296555
http://www.simantechinc.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=36&name=table%20extension%20complete%20with%20mountin g%20rail
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?73025-aigner-extension-tables
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?206223-anyone-here-using-aigner-extension-tables
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/swmf.pl?read=745554

erik loza
minimax usa


"like"............. :)

[Chris Merriam]

Sean, I'm in Lexington and have an FS-30, you're welcome to stop by during your UK visit and check it out.

[Sean Troy]

Sean, I'm in Lexington and have an FS-30, you're welcome to stop by during your UK visit and check it out.
Thanks Chris. I'll let you know when I find out when we're heading to UK.

[Chris Padilla]

Not to get too much off topic with the extension tables but I picked up some Incra rail and I bolted pieces of it to both my j/p and my bandsaw. I have a couple of tables that normally live as outfeed for my table saw that I can move to the j/p and bandsaw now. It isn't terribly quick but works good enough for my needs.

[Erik Loza]

Someone needs to create a thread for DIY mods for combined machines. I talked to a customer at IWF who made his own "powered drive" for his J/P planer table by installing a cordless drill chuck on the handwheel arbor shaft. Said he could stick his drill on it and raise the table in like 4-5 seconds. I talk to guys all the time who do stuff like that but (regrettably) do not discuss it much on forums like this.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jim Becker]

I like that idea, Erik. I wonder if Sam might have some ideas to contribute to that thread, too... ;)