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Christian Soto
09-02-2014, 6:16 PM
I plan on going to convention events, farmers markets, swap meets, etc.

How much power or what kind of generator would I need to purchase in order to run my machine at an optimal level? Machine details are below in my signature, thanks in advance.

Regards,

Christian

David Somers
09-02-2014, 7:23 PM
Christian,

I tend to be the sort of person who likes to quantify things. I would get a "Kill a Watt." It is an inexpensive device ($21 give or take on Amazon) that plugs into your wall outlet and measures the actual electric consumption of a device over time. If you plugged your laser in and tried to use it like you might at one of these shows then you would have a pretty good idea as to the laser's power consumption and could size a system to meet your needs. That would be especially important if you are going to attempt to run it on battery because your show is indoors?

Many of these places will not permit you to run a generator by the way. Some will, but even outdoors they are concerned about the exhaust affecting nearby booths and passersby. You might ask before you invested in a generator. Unless you will use the generator to charge batteries after the show has shut down for the day in order to get ready for the next day.

Short of doing a Kill a Watt, you can look at the amps the device draws and figure out how much you actually will run the unit in the coarse of a day. Then talk to a battery shop about how much battery you would need to have a good margin of error, what type of battery to use (Something deep cycle certainly) and the best charger and inverter to use since you will need to convert the battery's voltage to 110 for the laser/chiller.

Hope that gets you started?

PS...Seems like there was a post a while back where someone in Australia had made up a traveling laser shop. I think it ran on a generator, or power provided by the event. He had some nice posts about it. If I get a chance I will try to hunt down the posts.

Dave

Harold Shinn
09-02-2014, 7:24 PM
Christan I have a Yamaha 3000 and it will run a 40w FSL and computer with no problem Harold

David Somers
09-02-2014, 7:26 PM
Christian,

Can't believe I found the post so fast.
Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?184960-Small-tabletop-laser-for-shows

Look for the post by Steven Cox. He has photos and a good description of his setup.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Christian Soto
09-03-2014, 12:26 AM
Thanks Dave and Harold! You guys brought up things I didn't even think about. Batteries are definitely more ideal for indoor environments but I just hope the cost and maintenance of them don't drive my engraving fees up. And I would still have to factor in my Dell PC and Monitor.

Christian Soto
09-03-2014, 12:37 AM
Dave, thanks for the link! I would love to have that set up one day but my machine cannot be permanently fixed to a vehicle right now. I have it on casters at the moment so that it can be mobile and be rolled to wherever need be. If I ever plan on purchasing another machine I would pair it with a 4 cylinder Ford Transit Connect with a pretty sweet car wrap job.

Dan Hintz
09-03-2014, 6:27 AM
Nothing kills sensitive electronics faster than a poorly-regulated genny... make sure you get an electronics-rated one.

David Somers
09-03-2014, 10:06 AM
Morning Christian,

I wasn't so much thinking of the vehicle setup itself as his discussion of how he powered it.

I do like your choice of the Transit Connect. Nice vehicles. I assume something could be made, ARA is one company that comes to mind, that was essentially a slide for the rig so your laser and related stuff could be set on that and then when you setup shop could be slid out of the tailgate area or the side sliding door. If you were going to move everything inside for a show that would make getting it from the vehicle to a cart much easier and save your back. And if you were working an outdoor show right from your Connect you would have a ready made table that simply slides out of the rig to operate from. Just a thought. Here is the link to their slide page if you are interested. http://www.4are.com/cargoglide/ There are others out there. ARA was just the one that came to mind when you described your use.

I had also wondered if it would be possible to modify an ambulance gurney for something like this. The laser set on the gurney. As you slide it out of the vehicle the wheeled legs automatically drop down and it is ready to roll to where ever. Same process putting it back in, with the benefit that it locks into place once inside. And the gurney would be able to handle the weight of a small laser like a Mini 24. If it can handle me the Mini 24 would be a piece of cake.

Dan, would a voltage regulator/power conditioner compensate for a poorly regulated Genset? Just curious. Hadn't thought about that before in this context, though I always planned on running a laser through a power conditioner at my house.

Dave

David Somers
09-03-2014, 10:45 AM
Christian,

I am sure you have already thought of this if you are going to do the craft fair circuit, but don't forget to weigh down your canopy tent somehow. Dont just rely on stakes.

A number of weeks ago I went to a fair in Gig Harbor on a stunningly beautiful day. Shortly after I got there the wind kicked up and a bad gust lifted a few vendor's canopies and flipped them. Tore the stakes from the ground. Unfortunately the vendors had set up display walls attached to their canopy frames and they had their glass and ceramic wares nicely displayed there. All destroyed in the tossing. Very sad. After that, those of us who were alert would feel the wind kick up and dash to the nearest canopy and hold it down for the craftsman. It was like watching a long, narrow, rather bizarre game of musical chairs but with tent canopies instead. It was the most participatory craft fair I have ever been in. <sad grin> But the vendors were ever so gratefull for all the spontaneous help they got.

Anyway....simple 5 gallon buckets filled with sand or water work great. Or if you want something neater looking use some 4 or 6 inch diameter PVC pipe. Glue a cap on one end and fill it with concrete and embed an eye hook in the top so you can suspend that from the tent from corners. If you want them to look less utilitarian just make up some fabric covers for them. Voila. Relatively wind proof, attractive, and a small footprint in your limited display space and in your transport vehicle.

Dave

Joe Hillmann
09-03-2014, 11:56 AM
If you want a generator to run a laser and computers you pretty much need an inverter type pure sine wave type generator. Modified sine wave isn't good enough. Many companies that make them just call them sine wave inverters, that usually means it is a modified sine wave and WILL damage electronics. When I searched for mine I actually called the companies that makes the generator for a graph showing the actual sine wave output. Of the companies I asked only CPE and Honda produced a true 60 hertz 115volt sine wave.

They are much more expensive than a regular contractors generator, the CPE was $600 for 2000 watts and Honda is about $1000 for 1500 watts. In case you are wondering, CPE is based in Georgia (US) and parts are available. Most inverter type generators are extremely quiet and use very little fuel. Because they use an inverter they can run at any speed and still put out 60 hertz which means they use very little fuel.

I ended up getting the CPE generator but I still didn't trust the output to run my expensive lasers so run the power through a UPS (uninteruptable power supply) for an extra layer of security. Also make sure the UPS is also pure sine wave, almost all of them are because they are meant for running electronics.

Glen Monaghan
09-03-2014, 12:03 PM
Use an inexpensive and low power laptop instead of the bulkier and power hungry desktop and monitor.

Glen Monaghan
09-03-2014, 12:13 PM
Running the generator power through a UPS will only help if you use the considerably more-espensive online double converting type. Most of the more common UPS systems just pass the input power straight through to output until the input dies, then switch over to battery-supplied inverter output. The inverter is only active when input power fails, so you get no power conditioning while the generator is running. The online double converting type always outputs from its internal inverter so you'd get power conditioning from that. When the generator is running, the UPS converts input AC power from the generator to DC (first conversion) and then inverts that DC back to AC for output (2nd conversion); when the input dies, the DC input to the inverter switches from the 1st conversion to the battery, so the inverter is always active and you get power conditioning for the generator.

Martin Boekers
09-03-2014, 2:36 PM
I may have missed it here but, you may need some air filtration, as lasering puts out quite a bit of fumes.... Many events may not allow you in or may stop you
if the fumes are noticeable..... I believe it was Dan Hintz that made a pretty good one for home, quite a bit cheaper than commercial versions. The plans are here at
SMC if you do a search...

Dan Hintz
09-03-2014, 4:10 PM
I may have missed it here but, you may need some air filtration, as lasering puts out quite a bit of fumes.... Many events may not allow you in or may stop you
if the fumes are noticeable..... I believe it was Dan Hintz that made a pretty good one for home, quite a bit cheaper than commercial versions. The plans are here at
SMC if you do a search...

No need to search, just check out my one (and only) blog entry...

Bill George
09-03-2014, 4:43 PM
Well if your doing a bunch of wood carvings or images, pipe the hose over to a bucket and call it a smoker :) .