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Mike Dowell
09-01-2014, 5:23 PM
Is final sanding to 180 too high? Looking for opinions. For example, a table which will be stained and lacquered.

Thanks!

Jim Matthews
09-01-2014, 5:44 PM
I was taught to plane, scrape and sand to 220 before applying finish.

A tour of the Stickley plant in New York state revealed that they sanded
no higher than 220. They get a silky finish that I aim for.

Adam Cruea
09-02-2014, 8:24 AM
If I sand, I stop at 220. No reason to go higher as the grain hides the scratch marks from the paper at that high of grit.

Though really, scraping/planing would probably leave a better surface because at that point, you're severing wood fibers, not tearing them with sandpaper.

Prashun Patel
09-02-2014, 8:34 AM
What type of wood? That matters.

As a (way too) general rule, if coloring, or if I intend to build a thick finish, I stop around 150-220; if not coloring and going for a thinner or no film, I sand up to 400. I think it makes the finish look and feel better.

John Coloccia
09-02-2014, 9:10 AM
So I think what everyone is saying, and I agree, is 180 is too low. :) I also tend to stop around 220 for a lot of tasks, but sometimes I go much higher.

george wilson
09-02-2014, 9:14 AM
I always just stopped at 220 for wood. You can use worn out 220 if you want finer. Plastics and metals are a different matter.

Charles Wiggins
09-02-2014, 9:30 AM
I always just stopped at 220 for wood. You can use worn out 220 if you want finer. Plastics and metals are a different matter.

+1. I don't do exotics so I've never seen any case where I needed to go any higher.

Malcolm Schweizer
09-02-2014, 10:02 AM
220 grit, but typically finish with a scraper because it ensures open pores. It depends on the workpiece- if it is curvy with lots of moulding, then I just sand to 220. A large flat piece I would scrape to finish. This is not to say I don't use sandpaper on large flat pieces, but the final step would be scraping.

Pat Barry
09-02-2014, 11:32 AM
What type of wood? That matters.

As a (way too) general rule, if coloring, or if I intend to build a thick finish, I stop around 150-220; if not coloring and going for a thinner or no film, I sand up to 400. I think it makes the finish look and feel better.
I agree with this. Its red oak, finish sanding with the grain at 150 is A OK. If you are using something with less porosity you will need to go to 220..

Art Mann
09-02-2014, 11:51 AM
After using a sheet of sandpaper for a few moments, I can't tell the difference between 180 and 220 grits. Also, I can't tell the difference between surfaces sanded to 180 and 220 grit after I have applied and lightly sanded the first coat of finish material. I have experienced sanding a piece too fine so that it won't take stain very well or is blotchy.

Prashun Patel
09-02-2014, 12:27 PM
This may be the case with film finishes, but I challenge anyone to do the same test with an oil-varnish like Danish oil. Sanding to higher grits makes a world of difference in appearance and feel.

John Coloccia
09-02-2014, 12:46 PM
This may be the case with film finishes, but I challenge anyone to do the same test with an oil-varnish like Danish oil. Sanding to higher grits makes a world of difference in appearance and feel.

That's when I sand to higher grits too. If it's a film finish, I generally stop at 220. If it's something that will just get oiled, I tend to go higher. Oddly enough, though, on guitar fingerboard that are left natural or that possibly will just get a non-drying oil, I prefer to leave it rougher. I've found that going too fine feels nice when you touch it, but feels somewhat sticky when you're actually playing. :)

John T Barker
09-02-2014, 3:00 PM
I worked in a pretty good 18th cent. repro shop and were told by our finisher that 220 was creating a fine dust that was filling the pores and making his job harder. We were instructed to only go to 1
#180. Our process would be to remove machine marks with scapers, then orbital sand to #180, then hand sand #180 to remove the orbital sander marks.

Mike Dowell
09-02-2014, 10:09 PM
Very good info! Sounds like most people are going to 220. I was actually taught to use 120 but after some reading, I switched to 180. Here's a curveball - I was speaking to a gal at ML Campbell and she told me that 180 was way too fine and that 150 was the absolute finest I should ever finish sand. This was during a conversation about their finishes and the application, etc.. My conversation with her was what prompted this question. I had doubt about what I was told but now I doubt my own routine! I get wonderful results (generally) with 180 but I wonder if I may be more satisfied with 220 now that I see how many folks go to that.

John Coloccia
09-02-2014, 10:15 PM
Very good info! Sounds like most people are going to 220. I was actually taught to use 120 but after some reading, I switched to 180. Here's a curveball - I was speaking to a gal at ML Campbell and she told me that 180 was way too fine and that 150 was the absolute finest I should ever finish sand. This was during a conversation about their finishes and the application, etc.. My conversation with her was what prompted this question. I had doubt about what I was told but now I doubt my own routine! I get wonderful results (generally) with 180 but I wonder if I may be more satisfied with 220 now that I see how many folks go to that.

I guess that maybe it depends on the finish? For example, for whatever reason companies that sell nitrocellulose lacquer often recommend vinyl sealer underneath. IMHO, vinyl sealer is a horrid product. It's adhesive qualities are awful, and I could well see why you might want it rougher for that, though I would recommend just not using it in the first place. I guess recommendations, even basic ones like sand paper grit, should always have a little caveat that accompanies them describing where it's applicable!