new old stone

[Tony Zaffuto]

Sometime ago, maybe a decade or more, when I got my first Norton medium india, because of the stone's cheapness (as well as rounding up for shipping purposes) I ordered a second for the future. Today, being Labor Day and all, I dithered away in the shop, not really tackling anything, but putting some stuff in order. In the dithering, I happened on to this brand new Norton, still in the cellophane and all. Only, it was not a medium india, but a fine india and a stone I have never tried!

Maybe it was because of the bite of a new stone, but I was impressed. Norton has said their medium india was their replacement for the venerable washita, but I have to say the fine india feels closer to my vintage washita's than the medium. I worked on two blades - one was O1 which sharpened fine. The second was a LV PMV-11. The feel of the LV was slightly different, but sharpening went very quickly on the oilstones (finished on a translucent hard arkansas). The LV had a more severe need for sharpening as there was a bad nick, but was worked out pretty quickly on the synthetic oilstone.

Anyone else here have experience with the Norton fine india?

[Rick Whitehead]

Yes. I've been using one for years. It's my main sharpening stone, and I sharpen all my woodworking tools with it.
It gives me the edge I want, and I'm happy with them.Others are welcome to use whatever stones or systems they like; I like the fine India stones.
I REALLY hope this doesn't start another interminable discussion on sharpening!
Rick

[David Weaver]

I've got one in an IM 313. It was super aggressive when it was new, but without diamond honing it, it will settle in and give you a decent edge and not be quite so aggressive. It's a stronger cutter than washitas when new, but once it's settled in, they're probably about even when they're agitated with a hone. Once it's broken in, there will be a little more difference between how it cuts on old steel vs. stuff like A2 and V11, but any significant amount of work on either of those can be done on a grinder or a crystolon stone.

I don't find much use for a medium india (too coarse, and a medium crystolon does bulk removal better), but if I didn't have such a fascination with washitas, I'd use a fine india and a hard arkansas.

My favorite natural setup for A2 is either an agitated washita and a piece of owyhee jasper (keep the bevel small) or a fine india, hard ark and then owyhee jasper.

The owyhee jasper makes the edge on A2 something I can't tell apart from a fine synthetic stone. Most of the difference between trans/black and synthetic can be stropped off with bare leather pretty easily.

[Matthew N. Masail]

What about the NEW norton india? they are made in mexico now.. ?

[David Weaver]

That's the one that I have, they're fine. At least, I think mine is made in mexico. I wouldn't worry about it given they're pretty low tech.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks! another stone to the "wanna try" list.

[David Weaver]

If it costs much to get them over there, it's a shame, because they're dirt cheap here, and great for the price.

[Warren Mickley]

I was given a "Norton Bear Fine India" when I was trained to sharpen in 1962. Might qualify as a vintage stone by now. Like many oilstones it is more brash when new and gives a better edge when worn. I like my Washita stones better for their feel and their polish, but the fine India is much more resistant to wear. I have never needed to flatten it. Since 1976, when I got my first Washita I have mostly used it for small tools that might wear a groove in the Washita.

I think a fine India could make a nice intermediate stone in someone's routine.

[Steve Voigt]

The fine India is my first stone after grinding the primary bevel. I generally go fine India to hard black ark, though sometimes I put a soft ark in between, and sometimes I start with the soft ark.

I flatten the India regularly, same way I do all my stones, with 60-80 SC grit on glass. The India will cut almost like it's new if you abrade it.

I recently picked up a coarse India, with the idea of using that to establish my primary instead of the grinder. I have no complaints about the grinder, but it's in the basement, and my hand tool shop is on the 2nd floor, so I was hoping to cut down on the trips downstairs. This works OK, but there is not as much difference between the fine and coarse Indias as I had hoped. I may try the coarse Crystolon that David W. often recommends.

In general, the range from coarse to fine India is pretty narrow, so the medium india is the least used of my stones now. But for $17, I will never complain that I have it. That's the great thing about India stones--they're cheap and will last forever.

[Matthew N. Masail]

If it costs much to get them over there, it's a shame, because they're dirt cheap here, and great for the price.
It's no surprise that I'll have to import one. Basically that means sending one to my in laws and wating... Lol. I am going to pay about 16$ to ship a 6x2 fine eze lap because I'm avoiding sharpening as much as I can as long as have to mix oil and water stones in 1 session.

[bridger berdel]

Anyone here have any comments about using various fluids on the norton india stones?

[Tony Zaffuto]

I generally use "Marvel Mystery Oil" (Wallyworld for about $3.00/qt.) on everything. In an auction lot, I found a small antique can of "Pike Honing Oil". Tried some of it, about the same viscosity, but it (subjectively) felt better. Unfortunately I only have a small bit of it and it probably only felt better because it was different (and vintage).

I'll stick to Marvel as it works fine on my oilstones (both natural and manmade). I believe Norton has their artificial stones impregnated with oil, so it might not be a bad idea to learn what oil Norton uses for that process.

[Matthew N. Masail]

So far I've been using wd40, it's not bad except maybe sticks to my hands a little more than I'd like.

[Jim Koepke]

Anyone here have any comments about using various fluids on the norton india stones?

I use mineral oil on all my oil stones.

If one wants to it can be mixed with kerosene or mineral spirits to give it a lighter feel.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I generally use "Marvel Mystery Oil" (Wallyworld for about $3.00/qt.) on everything. In an auction lot, I found a small antique can of "Pike Honing Oil". Tried some of it, about the same viscosity, but it (subjectively) felt better. Unfortunately I only have a small bit of it and it probably only felt better because it was different (and vintage).

I'll stick to Marvel as it works fine on my oilstones (both natural and manmade). I believe Norton has their artificial stones impregnated with oil, so it might not be a bad idea to learn what oil Norton uses for that process.

Not sure, but their honing oil is just mineral oil.

[bridger berdel]

I get that the india stones are intended to be used with oil. Lately I've been trending away from oil. I still occasionally use it on the non-porous stones like the translucent arks or jaspers, but mostly I use isopropyl. Just curious how india stones behave with non oil fluids. I have a small one somewhere- I'll have to dig it out and give it a try

[Tony Zaffuto]

Not sure, but their honing oil is just mineral oil.

Their new honing oil may be mineral oil but the can of vintage seems different. I may have to do a taste test tonight! In all seriousness, this may again become something to add to my testing list: testing viscosity of various honing oils/mediums!

[David Weaver]

Tony, did the vintage pike have a bit of a dry-ish feeling to it? Like not so slippery when grabbing tools? The norton oil is 100% mineral oil, but it does have a slightly different feel than the food safe light mineral oil that I buy. If someone would've figured out the ideal type of mineral oil or mineral oil with additives, it would probably have been pike. They had pretty much the best of everything when they were in full swing (great arks, great coticules, great washitas, ...).

[Tony Zaffuto]

Tony, did the vintage pike have a bit of a dry-ish feeling to it? Like not so slippery when grabbing tools? The norton oil is 100% mineral oil, but it does have a slightly different feel than the food safe light mineral oil that I buy. If someone would've figured out the ideal type of mineral oil or mineral oil with additives, it would probably have been pike. They had pretty much the best of everything when they were in full swing (great arks, great coticules, great washitas, ...).

Had similar clear color (surprised by this because the can is old) and felt/worked as if thicker, though it came out of the can the same as modern Norton oil. Won't be home & into my shop until Thursday sometime, and at that time, I'll have to look to see if there is any patent date or other info that may give a hint at contents.

I will add, it would not replace my use of Marvel Mystery Oil, which still seems the best to me, for my particular washita & arkansas stones (I'm not ready to stray from those two, by adding the fine india or a coarser crystalon into the mix.

If I do anything, it may center around an ultra-fine ceramic, such as the Spyderco I already have, but refined as flat as possible and used for a few licks as a strop would.