Grinder Mishap, Need a new wheel

[Marty Tippin]

Had a little mishap with my Woodcraft 8" slow-speed grinder last night, sharpening with the Wolverine and Vari-Grind attachment and lost control of the tool. Gouge (my nearly-new Thompson 5/8" V, dang it) and vari-grind slammed into the wheel and broke a big chunk out of it. Now the wheel is horribly out of balance and basically unusable. Oops.

So now I need to get a new wheel and am looking for recommendations. Do I drop the big bucks and get one of the new CBN wheels or do I just get another aluminum oxide wheel? What's a good source for a quality aluminum oxide wheel?

[James Tibbetts]

Marty I have the same grinder and went to a CBN wheel. It really does a fantastic job with very little heat, (with a light touch). I would do it again.
Another option is that I have the 120 wheel that came with the grinder sitting here doing nothing. If you want it, it's yours for the freight from Maryland.

Jim

[Thom Sturgill]

Opening a can of worms are ye?:eek:

Since you state that you are using high vanadium steel (Thompson gouges) I will re-state that my information is that AO wheels can not cut the micro carbides that vanadium forms, but can knock them out of the steel matrix. This means that sharpening with an AO wheel loses you the very characteristic that you paid for when you bought the Thompson gouge.

Additionally there are cost vs price issues. The CBN wheels ARE higher priced, but should out wear several AO wheels. In addition, they do not need dressing, so no expensive wheel dressers or balancers that would help you get the best out of an AO wheel. So averaged over their lifetime they would cost less. In addition they are wider, so your accident would be less likely - I know because I've been there too.

Your accident is one of the best reasons not to stick with AO, and by the way throw that wheel away IMMEDIATELY! It almost assuredly has micro-fractures that could cause it to explode and you DON'T want to see what that can do even if you do have the guards in place.

I have never heard anyone complain that the CBN wheels were not worth the price once they used them. Instead they wonder why they waited so long.

[Marty Tippin]

Thanks, Thom. I'll confess that I didn't buy the Thompson gouge for the high-vanadium steel - I bought it because I wanted something better than the Benjamin's Best I started with and it's what most folks here seem to like. But if I can get more out of the gouge with a better wheel, sign me up... :)


OptiGrind CBN wheel at Woodcraft is $195 with a bushing. Anyone know whether that wheel is worth the price?

Looks like D-Way sells a CBN wheel as well, which I'm guessing many here would lean toward.

[Roger Chandler]

go with the cbn wheel...........you will get the best results and in time, you will likely upgrade anyway...........look at this mishap as a fortuitous opportunity! ;)

[Joe Bradshaw]

Go with the CBN wheel from D-Way. They are worth every penny or dollar. I would take both wheels off your grinder and check it for runout. You want to make sure that the shaft didn't get bent from the catch.
Joe

[Marty Tippin]

I would take both wheels off your grinder and check it for runout. You want to make sure that the shaft didn't get bent from the catch.
Joe

Good advice, thanks. I'll check it out this weekend.

[David Delo]

Opening a can of worms are ye?:eek:I have never heard anyone complain that the CBN wheels were not worth the price once they used them. Instead they wonder why they waited so long.Thom,Guess I'm in the camp of "why they waited so long." My hang-up isn't so much the cost (although it does come into play) but more of a decision of getting it right the first time. 1.) Do I keep my present AO wheels + wolverine set-up intact and just add a 2nd grinder with CBN + either adding 2nd wolverine or just take off the existing wolverine and put it on a new grinder + CBN? Certainly much less complicated to just replace the existing wheels with CBN but is there any reason to keep the AO set-up intact for materials you don't want hitting the CBN?2.) Radius edge vs. straight edge. I get to a point where I think the straight edge might be the way to go for me but then think the radius edge would make doing a scraper a bit easier.Right now I use 3 different bowl gouges, a couple different roughing gouges and parting tools and occasionally a couple differently shaped scrapers. All HSS. Care to share any insight without opening the can of worms any further?

[Marty Tippin]

I placed an order for the D-Way 180 grit CBN wheel, Dave says he'll ship it today so I should have it sometime next week. And it probably won't belong before I go back for the 80 grit CBN wheel...

I just wish it was as easy to buy skill at the lathe as it is to buy tools for the lathe... :D

[Jeff Gilfor]

To start off, I must say that all the CBN wheels I have are from Dave at D-Way, and I've never had a regret.

lately though, I've learned of a new vendor with outstanding prices. Our turning club (Tri-County Turners, in the Tampa Bay Area) sent out an email referencing this site. I have bought some things from him (sanding pads and an LED lathe lamp), and am very impressed.

i have no connection with the site or vendor, except as a customer.

the site is: http://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/all

Anyway, he has a special, where he will sell both an 80 and 180 grit wheel, both for $249.99. I have heard that they are as good as anything else on the market.

[Thom Sturgill]

RE flat vs rounded edge
As I understand it, Dave introduced the rounded edge at David Ellsworth's request. DE taught to round the edge on an AO wheel to grind the little HSS tips used for hollowing. I already had a flat wheel when those came out and can't quite see upgrading.

Luckily
1) M2 HSS does not 'need' CBN, AO works fine, and
2) I have an old 6" grinder with a Norton blue wheel that works fine. I don't need the wolverine for them and have a good (Veritas) after-market platform for the grinder. That wheel is now dedicated to grinding those cutters.
3) I don't see upgrading the hollower points to Powder Metal as I already have replaceable carbide cutters as a more aggressive alternative.

[Greg Just]

My woodturning club recently placed a group order with Woodturners Wonders. Their prices are better than most to start with and we got a quantity discount and a couple of free lights. I'm very happy that I upgraded and wished I had done it sooner.

http://woodturnerswonders.com/products/cbn-wheel-180-grit

[Marty Tippin]

I've already ordered the 180 grit wheel from D-Way, but might go ahead and get the 80-grit from Woodturners Wonders. I dont anticipate needing the 80-grit that much but it'd be nice to have CBN on both wheels.

The most economical plan would be to order the 2-wheel package and re-sell the 180 grit wheel that comes in the package -- if anyone is interested in the 180-grit wheel and splitting the cost (plus a little for shipping), let me know via PM.

[Mike Peace]

My woodturning club recently placed a group order with Woodturners Wonders. Their prices are better than most to start with and we got a quantity discount and a couple of free lights. I'm very happy that I upgraded and wished I had done it sooner.

http://woodturnerswonders.com/products/cbn-wheel-180-grit

My club did the same. I already had the 180 grit from Dway and am happy with the 80 grit I got from Ken at Woodturners Wonders.

[Russ Denz]

A few months ago I had a SIMILAR experience to Marty's, but my wheel was one of Dave's 180 grit flat CBN wheels. I would really like your input/opinions on this. The "similarity" was a grinding catch - strong enough to bend the tang on my gold Sorby roughing gouge, sending it over my shoulder (no injuries; thank God) BUT the wheel was almost unscathed, leaving a barely perceptible to the naked eye nick/blemish (?) on the wheel itself. The wheel and grinder still runs as true as ever, and still sharpens like nothing ever happened (but did make me a bit uncomfortable every time I turned it on). However, I am safety-conscious almost to a fault, and secretly was looking for an excuse to try D-Way's new radiused CBN... so I bought one a few weeks ago.

My question is this: has anyone else experienced the same mishap, aka "bairn-frat", and what did you more-experienced turners do with the wheel? Did you think it was still safe to use? ...even as a heavyweight Frisbee? fyi I still have the wheel but my gouge went to the recycle bin. Any info would be most appreciated.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Marty,
Went back back to your original post on this thread before the conversation turned toward the benefits of the CBN wheel as versus an AO or other stone wheel. There is no argument about the benefits of a CBN wheel but alone they will not prevent "mishaps" as proven by Russ. So may I ask how your tool and jig "slammed" into the wheel. Were you grinding too close to vertical center or did the jig come loose and allow the tool to go below center. Did you get the tool between the inside of the wheel and the grinder? Please be a bit more specific.
faust

[Marty Tippin]

So may I ask how your tool and jig "slammed" into the wheel.

The tip of the gouge slipped off the left side of the wheel and the whole gouge/jig assembly slipped out of my hands and into the wheel, catching right in the "V" between the gouge and jig. I think I may have been in the wrong position with my body and the end of the (very long) tool handle bumped into me and started the whole incident. Not doing anything I haven't done a hundred times before, just wasn't paying attention and got bit...

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Thanks for the explanation, Marty. Glad you didn't get hurt.
faust

[louis pittman]

I have cbn wheels from woodturnerswonders.com they are supper good and so are prices

[Marty Tippin]

I ordered a 180 grit wheel from D-Way on Friday and received it on Tuesday (incredible service!).

But now I realize that I ordered the "regular" CBN wheel with square edges and not the one with the radius edge. I gather that the radius edge wheel works better for sharpening round-nose scrapers. Is it worth the trouble to try to return this wheel and get the radius edge instead? I do have a few scrapers that I'll need to sharpen, but I've always managed to get them sharp in the past without needing a radius edge on my old AO wheels.

[Wally Dickerman]

Just remember that the CBN wheel can't be used for softer metals.

[Greg Portland]

Now may be the time to measure the runout of the grinder's shaft to ensure that nothing was bent.

[Marty Tippin]

Now may be the time to measure the runout of the grinder's shaft to ensure that nothing was bent.

I did, looks good, maybe .001 or so runout.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I was out camping when this came up. For sure, CBN wheels are better. One reason I prefer the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels is that I have never slipped off the edge of them like I did with the 1 inch wide wheels. Most of the time, that slip just resulted in a big divot in the wing of a gouge. Yes, I went off the side when I used jigs, and when I converted to platform sharpening. No more. I have a set of the radius edged wheels, but haven't tried them out yet. Main reason is that I don't really need them. The advantage is mostly with the hollowing tips, which are usually in jigs, and it is easier to go around the radius edge than to rotate with the square edge. Dave (D Way) does have a video clip of it up on his web site, or on You Tube.

robo hippy

[charlie knighton]

true story......I was collecting raffle prizes for the Virginia Woodturning Symposium....sent email to Norton....which forwarded the request to Saint Golden Abrasives......they are donating 2 six inch wheels 80 grit for our woodturning symposium.......we appreciated all gifts