Outdoor sign materal?

[jason lambert]

I have been tasked with the project of making a outdoor sign for the area we will live in. IT will be a hanging sign double sided about 2.5'x2.5' and will be painted. I need it to withstand the weather all year here in NJ and be about 2" thick.

What material should I use is there such thing as outdoor MDF I can sandwich together for some thickness?

[bruce buren]

I here people using MDO for outdoor signs

[Myk Rian]

MDO (paint the edges), or Cedar.

[Mark Bolton]

+3 for MDO. My signs for my business are on MDO. I simply cut the shape I wanted, painted the whole thing the background color, printed my logo and text on mylar sheet, put it in the overhead projector and shot it on the MDO. Traced, and painted. Perhaps 5-6 years outside and looks good as new.

[Tony Joyce]

Exterior MDF - http://www.extira.com/product-lines/extira-vs-mdf/
Sign Foam - http://precisionboard.com/products/high-density-urethane-pblt/

[Jim Andrew]

The last 4x8 sign I put up used 4x4 treated posts, with a 4x4 under and over the actual sign, I used a sheet of 3/4" bb form plywood, and my neighbor had a sign business, she made the actual sign from a thin sheet of aluminum which I fastened to the plywood. The sign was still good after several years when we sold all the lots in the subdivision.

[Mark Bolton]

Exterior MDF - http://www.extira.com/product-lines/extira-vs-mdf/
Sign Foam - http://precisionboard.com/products/high-density-urethane-pblt/

Last time I looked 2" HDU was like $400 a sheet. I think the last price sheet I got 3/4" and 1" was close to $200.

Ive read about a bit of troubles with exteria but never used it myself.

I can buy MDO for $60-$70 and Ive left scraps on the outside of by building under a gutter downspout for ages and they look just about like they were delivered the other day.

[Tony Joyce]

Why do some some people have to find fault with every reply to a post?
I guess someday I'll learn to keep my comments to myself and let the experts answer all questions.

[Mark Bolton]

Why do some some people have to find fault with every reply to a post?
I guess someday I'll learn to keep my comments to myself and let the experts answer all questions.

Tony, I'll assume you were responding to me. I guess its likely wrong but I kinda default to this being a hobby forum (not a bad thing in any way) unless the post specifically states otherwise. For me, and its only me, that means I'm thinking of people looking at Borg ply being 50-60 a sheet being costly. Suggesting material that's $400 a sheet doesn't seem productive to me but I guess someone may bite.

Sorry to twist your nut.

[Bill Orbine]

I have been tasked with the project of making a outdoor sign for the area we will live in. IT will be a hanging sign double sided about 2.5'x2.5' and will be painted. I need it to withstand the weather all year here in NJ and be about 2" thick.

What material should I use is there such thing as outdoor MDF I can sandwich together for some thickness?

Dreyer's Lumber in Chatham has the MDO. ;)

[Keith Westfall]

Suggesting material that's $400 a sheet doesn't seem productive to me but I guess someone may bite.

Odd.

I didn't think that Tony was trying to sell anything, was he? I for one, appreciate the opportunity to expand my knowledge about different products that are available "out there."

I may never buy a sheet of it, but if it happens that something like that would fill a need, I would be very happy that someone took the time to share information about it.

[Mark Bolton]

Odd.

I didn't think that Tony was trying to sell anything, was he? I for one, appreciate the opportunity to expand my knowledge about different products that are available "out there."

I may never buy a sheet of it, but if it happens that something like that would fill a need, I would be very happy that someone took the time to share information about it.

Couldnt agree more.

[Keith Outten]

If you place a value on your labor you will often find that the more expensive material is the best value.
Although hobby sign makers rarely use Dupont Corian because of its price I rarely use any other material for interior or exterior signs. Tony obviously has his preferences as well and probably has good reasons for his recommendation.

[jason lambert]

Thanks bill I am about a mile away from them it is a new sign for our neibor hood "stone ridge" that got stolen last year.
Dreyer's Lumber in Chatham has the MDO. ;)

[Ross Moshinsky]

You can read up on these materials, but these are the common ones in the sign industry. MDO, HDU, & PVC. Each have their pros and cons. MDO for example cannot be carved and will eventually fail from water seeping into the ply. Sealing the edges will help but it's still an inevitability. HDU is great for carving but takes a bit of work to finish and can be tricky to mount. PVC takes longer to carve and can be on the heavier side but is very durable.

If you're doing a painted, vinyl, or letter applied sign MDO is probably the best bet. Anything carved you're going to be looking at PVC or HDU. Also don't be afraid to fake thickness. Buy a piece of 3/4" material and then build up the sides to make the panel look thicker, similar to how they do counter tops.

[Mel Fulks]

I tested MDO with soaking for days and then rapid drying ,after several cycles the lams would start to split from the stress.
But the glue never failed. The extira mdf is a good product and I suspect any problems come from using it the wrong way,it is not for structural use. It's been years since I read the specs for MDO but I think mfgs call for the edges to be
covered not painted. That is seldom done.

[Scott Shepherd]

Extira swells when wet. A great deal of swelling. I wouldn't recommend it.

[Mel Fulks]

That is interesting ,the specs even give a micro measurement for swelling after soaking. I can't help but wonder if regular
mdf gets mixed in in warehouse keeping, or even deliberately substituted. I recently bought a sheet and could not find a
stamped edge. Relied on my nose for verification.



Extira swells when wet. A great deal of swelling. I wouldn't recommend it.

[Scott Shepherd]

That is interesting ,the specs even give a micro measurement for swelling after soaking. I can't help but wonder if regular
mdf gets mixed in in warehouse keeping, or even deliberately substituted. I recently bought a sheet and could not find a
stamped edge. Relied on my nose for verification.

I wouldn't call anything is does "micro". I'll never use it again. Not to mention the fact that it's so heavy it's not funny.

[Paul Phillips]

FWIW, I used to work for a sign Co. that used mostly Extira type MDF, we had great success by sealing exposed edges with a coat of watered down Tightbond wood glue, (rolled on) then prime and paint, even sand blasted it and lasted for many years. Also for those not familiar with HDU, it doesn't crack chip or warp, lasts forever outside, can be worked easily with woodworking tools/saws, CNCs amazingly, can even be hand carved. Price is typically dependent on density, it comes in many different densities from relatively soft Balsa like @10lb-15lb to Hard Maple like @20lb-30lb. There are different manufacturers but I prefer the Precision Board brand, they have lots of good information on how to work their material including mounting/installing. http://precisionboard.com/products/high-density-urethane-pblt/

[AL Ursich]

Plan the Mounting Hardware into the beginning of the job too... Half of the old hardware may still be present and making a mock up board just to fix the proper location of the sign side brackets is important. You don't want someone screwing a big set of eye bolts down through the top edge of the sign splitting the sign and leaving it open to early failure.

And beware of the Liability, if you mount the sign, and someday it gets airborn and smacks someone's car.

Good Luck,

AL

[Scott Shepherd]

FWIW, I used to work for a sign Co. that used mostly Extira type MDF, we had great success by sealing exposed edges with a coat of watered down Tightbond wood glue, (rolled on) then prime and paint, even sand blasted it and lasted for many years.

That's interesting Paul, we primed the entire boards, painted them with exterior paints and planted them with 4" x 4" posts. Those things would move all over the place. Not to mention bowing. We had a number of them, 4' wide, 8' tall, all mounted with nice hardware, in solid ground, and when the sun would hit one side in the morning, it would bow them almost 4" on the 4' side. It was a bit staggering to see just how much they would bow. We also were forced by the customer on the location and two of them would get hit with the sprinkler system every morning. Man, you talk about a mess. Those things would get water on them, then the sun would hit them and you could almost just watch them curl in the middle. It was so unstable for us, we vowed never to use it again. In fact, I have 1/2 a sheet that's been sitting next to the dumpster for about 3 years now. It's too heavy for me to pickup and cut into pieces small enough to fit into the dumpster :)

In fairness, we've used aluminum clad plywood, made for that, sealed the edges, put silicone on the edges, then the proper edge caps, stuck on with silicone and seen the aluminum skin delaminate from the plywood after about 2 years.

[Mel Fulks]

The signs flexing in the sun goes back to what I posted about extira not being suitable for structural purposes. Prints showing 18th century tavern signs and such usually show them with perimeter frame because large pieces of WOOD used as signs will move. Anytime I have had to talk to customers about appropriate materials for columns etc. I have never let them choose material without knowing how it would be used. An extira column wrap is fine ,an extira column could get
someone sued.

[Bill Clifton]

Guys, I appreciate the discussion. I learned something - easy to do, I had to google MDO. Seriously.

[Paul Phillips]

Steve, maybe there's more of a difference than I thought with Extira brand, I actually used the Medex product which as far as I know has very similar properties but maybe there's a bigger difference between them than I realized. With that much moving I can understand, that's way too much, Iv'e had PVC/Sintra sheet move almost as bad though.