The best 48" x 36" Chinese laser from US company?

[Dan Souliere]

I've spent countless hours researching the best Chinese lasers available from US companies and I came up with these 3 choices:

http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com/laser_RL1290.html

http://www.fslaser.com/products/lasers/pro-series/48x36-laser-engraver-and-cutter

http://www.bosslaser.com/co2-laser-cutter-engraver-machines/boss-ls-3650-detail

All 3 lasers look identical from the outside but seem to have differences on the inside. I hear nothing but good things from Rabbit, I hear FSL is terrible support and I can't find much feedback on Boss.

Any help is greatly appreciated. :)

[David Somers]

Dan, personally I would do Rabbit. Hands down.

Everything I read about FS makes me cringe. There is always the possibility they have gotten their act together. But given all they have gone through I would want to see a lengthy great track record before I did anything with them.

In my mind Boss comes up OK, but not outstanding.

Ray and Carole at Rabbit simply seem to shine through the whole process and long after you buy from them.

Dave

[Dan Souliere]

Dan, personally I would do Rabbit. Hands down.

Everything I read about FS makes me cringe. There is always the possibility they have gotten their act together. But given all they have gone through I would want to see a lengthy great track record before I did anything with them.

In my mind Boss comes up OK, but not outstanding.

Ray and Carole at Rabbit simply seem to shine through the whole process and long after you buy from them.

Dave

I appreciate the feedback.

I have been leaning toward Rabbit because customer service is VERY important with these chinese lasers. We all know problems will arise and the last thing I need is a 500lb door stop.

Looks like I did my homework. :)

[Kev Williams]

My research showed the cost of buying a Chinese machine in the US averaged nearly 300% of the direct-from-China price I paid. That's a lot of money for 'customer service insurance".

I look at it this way: If something goes wrong with my Triumph that for some reason can't be fixed, I can buy 2 brand new replacements and have still only spent the money one Rabbit would cost.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty handy with fixing things. Other than having my NH rep rebuild an EP module for me, I've never needed or paid anyone to repair any of the machines in my signature. Knock on my head ;) --so my strategy works for me. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to anyone who's not a 'tinkerer'...

[David Somers]

Kev,

I do agree with you. While I have a lot of respect and faith in Rabbit I will also likely end up ordering from China directly. To say I am doing that reluctantly is not really accurate. But I do have mixed feelings about it. I very much want to order from a US company. Even if they are reselling a Chinese made product. The order is still supporting local families and workers. And Ray and Carole and their crew have such a good reputation with their users. They seem to work very hard to do a good job for folks. But, in my case the $$ difference combined with my situation is just too much for me to ignore. Plus, I found a Chinese product that meets one odd need I was trying to meet, which is as much of Z height adjustment as I could get. Put all that together and I will end up ordering from China.

If I were a person looking to buy a first laser for a business and simply did not have the startup funds to buy into the Western Brands......And if I were also a newbie to lasers AND not terribly tech savvy or confident in my ability to tinker I would have to turn to a US based source. And Rabbit would be the place I would turn given all I have seen of them. The fact they will come to your door after the machine is delivered and get the machine running and aligned correctly and spend the time you need to get up and running is worth a great deal. Especially if you need your machine to start producing for you ASAP, and your skills are weak, and you are a one man shop. The benefits of that are tremendous. And the cost is still FAR less than a western machine, even if the cost is significantly more than a directly purchased Chinese machine.

In my case, working in IT for so long has given me a good background in tinkering and decent confidence in my ability to figure things out. I have worked a lot with overseas tech support operations so I know what I am getting into there. The time zone differences and language barriers can take a lot of energy to get through, but I am used to that so it is not a big issue for me. And then in my case I am not looking to use the laser as a core part of my business, so paying the extra money to Rabbit is just really hard to justify. I am not in a rush (obviously to those of you who have chuckled as you watched me nibbling all around a laser for the last year <grin>) and I am not dependent on this machine to start earning money for me ASAP. Given those conditions it makes more sense for me to order directly from China.

Hope that helps a little Dan!

[Rich Harman]

If I had it to do over again I would still choose to import a machine. Being mechanically inclined has a lot to do with that. If I did not have those skills, I probably would have had a bad experience and would be better off getting something that would be serviced locally.

I very nearly bought a used Epilog Helix when I got started. I'm glad I didn't. My machine is about four times as big and cost half as much.

However, if my business were primarily engraving rather than cutting (and I had the customers), I would be looking at getting something that was screaming fast - a Trotec.

[David Somers]

Rich, Just noticed you were over in Olalla, WA, on the other side of Vashon Island from me. If you ever need something give me a holler. I live over in West Seattle and am a short distance from the Fauntleroy Ferry servicing Vashon and Southworth. Hey Neighbor!

Dave

[Rich Harman]

Rich, Just noticed you were over in Olalla, WA

Just officially moved here last month, bought the property over a year ago. You should come over and check out my laser when I get my shop finished. Or sooner if you like remodeling. :D

[Kev Williams]

... if my business were primarily engraving rather than cutting (and I had the customers), I would be looking at getting something that was screaming fast - a Trotec.

I will say this about my Triumph- For CUTTING, and ENGRAVING WOOD, it absolutely puts my 'western' machines to shame. I'm sure some of the reason is the 2x power difference, but still...

I engraved this 24" diameter alder table top about a month ago. The engraving is 3/16" deep, did it in one pass, took 1 hour 44 minutes. It would've taken my 40w LS900 a minimum of 5 to 6 hours to engrave that much wood that deep! (note" this pattern was scanned from pages in a book, my customer didn't want the corners sharpened, etc... I'm still waiting to see the finished table!)
295541295542295543

As for cutting, the Triumph is MUCH faster (3-5x), and I like the cut edges better--

Now, as for engraving text and graphics, I've gotten some very impressive results out of the Triumph. But at a much slower rate than my LS900. And for high-precision text & graphics, I'll take a western machine!

[Scott Shepherd]

I will say this about my Triumph- For CUTTING, and ENGRAVING WOOD, it absolutely puts my 'western' machines to shame. I'm sure some of the reason is the 2x power difference, but still...

And I'm sure some of it has to do with comparing a brand new Chinese machine to a 10 year old US machine????? That's not really fair is it?

My guess is that 1 hour 44 minute job would be about 60 minutes on a faster machine, at the top end of things.

I'm all for comparing things, but lets compare apples to apples. It's like the Mac/PC debate where people are using Windows 8 and say "Mac's are horrible, I used one in 1997 and it was awful, Windows 8 is much better". Well, I should hope so....

Also, keep in mind the posts you've made saying how you can't get the quality off of the Triumph you can off the LS-900.

I'm also not knocking the Chinese machine, just saying if you are going to compare machines, you have to compare like vs. like to some degree.

[Kevin Gregerson]

And I'm sure some of it has to do with comparing a brand new Chinese machine to a 10 year old US machine????? That's not really fair is it?

My guess is that 1 hour 44 minute job would be about 60 minutes on a faster machine, at the top end of things.

I'm all for comparing things, but lets compare apples to apples. It's like the Mac/PC debate where people are using Windows 8 and say "Mac's are horrible, I used one in 1997 and it was awful, Windows 8 is much better". Well, I should hope so....

Also, keep in mind the posts you've made saying how you can't get the quality off of the Triumph you can off the LS-900.

I'm also not knocking the Chinese machine, just saying if you are going to compare machines, you have to compare like vs. like to some degree.


Some truth to that, also should note that I could conceptually go just as quick on my 50 watt western engraving machine. It's all in the quality settings that you use. But the chinese branded machines are great for specific cutting tasks they just aren't great for things like service, replacement parts, parts availability, ease of use, how to fix things. Though, arguably, for the price you could conceptually follow the english car method one to drive and one for parts. I can't really knock the chinese for the market they are in. They feed the laser industry with cheap lasers which spurn up new ideas and concepts in how to make these machines produce.

[Scott Shepherd]

I can't really knock the chinese for the market they are in. They feed the laser industry with cheap lasers which spurn up new ideas and concepts in how to make these machines produce.

I couldn't agree more. They have their place in this market. We've owned Chinese machines before. They all follow the same pattern. Manuals use words and phrases that don't exist. Help is there to some degree, if you are patient, they tend to work well, but tend to be considerably slower in movements, they seem to hold up fairly well.

Our first plotter was a Chinese plotter. We bought it because we were tired of subbing out our vinyl work. It cost $600, I think, roughly. It arrived, I had never seen or used a vinyl plotter. Youtube wasn't invented yet :) Okay, maybe it was, but it certainly didn't have videos on it yet. I had no idea how to make it run, I just messed with it until I got it to move and do something, asked a few people on this forum what it was supposed to be doing, and we were in business. That one machine paid for itself in one job, I think, many times over. I think the first job was like a $4000-5,000 job. We used it for a year or so, then bought a Japanese machine. Paid about $4,000 for that one. Put the Chinese one on craigslist a couple years later and they wanted to see it run. I hooked it up and it was like watching paint dry, while the people were like "WOW, look how fast it is, that's incredible".

Now we have a Summa that's about $10,000 and it's power, speed, and functionality are incredible.

I'd hate to think I'd have to go back to the speed of that first machine, at any cost, but I also know that it helped get us where we are today. You can't always start at the finish line :)

[Dan Souliere]

I really appreciate the feedback guys but we are way off topic.

This thread was created to determine what US company offers the best Chinese laser.

It was not to start a debate that for the price, its better to buy direct from China. There are a few reasons why I have zero interest in going direct. Support is a MAJOR factor for me and I don't feel $10K is a lot of money considering how much revenue this machine will generate.

[Dan Hintz]

http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com/laser_RL1290.html

http://www.fslaser.com/products/lasers/pro-series/48x36-laser-engraver-and-cutter

http://www.bosslaser.com/co2-laser-cutter-engraver-machines/boss-ls-3650-detail



This thread was created to determine what US company offers the best Chinese laser.

Your question is faulty. They're all Chinese, which means it's a complete crapshoot as to the quality you will get on every individual piece. That said, the service you will get from Rabbit far outweighs either of the others. My thoughts on FSL are (relatively) well known, and Boss is an offshoot from FSL that has been mostly untested (but threads elsewhere don't hold much promise). If any component fails, I think you can count on Rabbit to help sort you out... unlike the recent posting where an FSL tube failed and the company blamed it on lack of use with no replacement offered. Also, I'm pretty sure Rabbit tests each of their machines before shipping them out, and they will even fly out and help you set it up.

[Dan Souliere]

Your question is faulty. They're all Chinese, which means it's a complete crapshoot as to the quality you will get on every individual piece. That said, the service you will get from Rabbit far outweighs either of the others. My thoughts on FSL are (relatively) well known, and Boss is an offshoot from FSL that has been mostly untested (but threads elsewhere don't hold much promise). If any component fails, I think you can count on Rabbit to help sort you out... unlike the recent posting where an FSL tube failed and the company blamed it on lack of use with no replacement offered. Also, I'm pretty sure Rabbit tests each of their machines before shipping them out, and they will even fly out and help you set it up.

I am just glad to hear feedback from people that have more experience before dropping 10K.

I sent Rabbit an email a few days ago asking if they have the RL-1290 in stock ready to ship but so far no response.

Any tips for a first time buyer? :)

[Bert Kemp]

Dan you didn't mention where your located, if your close to anyone of the 3 you mentioned go take a look at them, see whats best for you and talk to the people, get an idea of the support you'll get. I'm picking up my rabbit 10/1 in Ohio on my way back to AZ.
I went with the Rabbit based on the Scott's reputation. I don't believe that the price difference is 300% I researched importing, after you pay for the machine, pay the broker, import fee's , taxes shipping to your door its not the big savings you think.Maybe its a bigger savings on a larger machine but on the smaller size laser I don't think you save a lot.
Dave there's still time for you to get that Rabbit and have me haul it most of the way home for you:D

[Kev Williams]

And I'm sure some of it has to do with comparing a brand new Chinese machine to a 10 year old US machine????? That's not really fair is it?
Actually, yes it is. My LS900 engraves no different than it ever did. I use all the same settings for cutting and engraving that I started saving when I got the thing. And 60 minutes on a faster machine? Maybe with more power. I did that table at 80mm/sec and 80% power (which is it's 100%) because that's how fast it had to go to get to .190" deep in one pass. If power difference is the main factor, then another 80w laser won't cut 45 minutes off the time.

Also, keep in mind the posts you've made saying how you can't get the quality off of the Triumph you can off the LS-900.
Everything I've posted is an honest analysis of my experience with the different lasers I use, what's wrong with that? Has nothing to do with "apples to apples". As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL apples. I'm only stating my machine's strengths and weakneess. I thought it might be helpful to someone looking to buy a laser engraver. If not........

[Scott Shepherd]

Actually, yes it is. My LS900 engraves no different than it ever did. I use all the same settings for cutting and engraving that I started saving when I got the thing. And 60 minutes on a faster machine? Maybe with more power. I did that table at 80mm/sec and 80% power (which is it's 100%) because that's how fast it had to go to get to .190" deep in one pass. If power difference is the main factor, then another 80w laser won't cut 45 minutes off the time.

Everything I've posted is an honest analysis of my experience with the different lasers I use, what's wrong with that? Has nothing to do with "apples to apples". As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL apples. I'm only stating my machine's strengths and weakneess. I thought it might be helpful to someone looking to buy a laser engraver. If not........

My point is you're constantly comparing your brand new Chinese machine to your 10 year old other machines. If you want to say how great it does, then compare it to a new western machine. That would be a much better comparison on how good or bad it is. Comparing any machines that are that many years apart isn't a fair comparison of anything, other than anecdotal information.

[Bert Kemp]

I am just glad to hear feedback from people that have more experience before dropping 10K.

I sent Rabbit an email a few days ago asking if they have the RL-1290 in stock ready to ship but so far no response.

Any tips for a first time buyer? :)
It sometimes takes a day or two for them to get back to you, a phone call works much better.

[Jerome Stanek]

When I was at Rabbit Ray was on the road and Carol helped me she was as busy as a one armed paper hanger with the phones and people coming in but she answered all my questions.

[Dan Souliere]

Dan you didn't mention where your located, if your close to anyone of the 3 you mentioned go take a look at them, see whats best for you and talk to the people, get an idea of the support you'll get. I'm picking up my rabbit 10/1 in Ohio on my way back to AZ.
I went with the Rabbit based on the Scott's reputation. I don't believe that the price difference is 300% I researched importing, after you pay for the machine, pay the broker, import fee's , taxes shipping to your door its not the big savings you think.Maybe its a bigger savings on a larger machine but on the smaller size laser I don't think you save a lot.
Dave there's still time for you to get that Rabbit and have me haul it most of the way home for you:D

I am located in Toronto, Ontario so I can only go by the information I get online.

[Tony Lenkic]

Dan,

In Toronto area you can check out Logilase dot com. located in Concord (Keele & #7 intersections).
I think there are other members here that purchased laser from them.