CE Jennings socket chisels

[Ron Kellison]

I have the opportunity to pick up an 8-piece set of CE Jennings socket chisels for $100. The handles are all in great shape, there are no nicks in the edges and no rust. They are presently packed in a roll which may have kept them from getting banged up over the years. I've never run into Jennings before and know very little about them except that the company hasn't made chisels since the late 20s-early 30s.

I suspect many folks here know much more about Jennings chisel than I do. How do they compare to the old Stanley 720s? What is the quality of the steel?

Best regards,

Ron

[David Weaver]

Similar to stanley chisels. most of the stuff from that era was made to a similar spec (in terms of hardness). Buck stands out as being a touch softer maybe, but most everything else (witherby, stanley, pexto/ps&W, etc, I don't know if you could tell them apart if someone changed their shape).

At $100, you buy the chisels and decide if you like them later. If the set is complete with handles, it's worth several times that.

[Ron Kellison]

David,

The set ranges from 1/4" to 1 1/2", all the handles are there, none are cracked. My gut tells me I should grab them as soon as I can, get rid of my old set of Sandviks with the black plastic handles and put the Jennings in the rack above my collection of Japanese chisels.295481

[Jim Koepke]

My gut tells me I should grab them as soon as I can

At $12.50 a chisel you haven't picked them up yet?

Better hurry...

My wallet would be out at that price for a decent chisel even if it needs a new handle.

At that price they are priced to sell, even to someone who is thinking of flipping them for a profit.

jtk

[Dave Parkis]

You should definitely listen to your gut and you should run, not walk, back there and grab them before someone else does.

[Ron Kellison]

My difficulty is that they are being sold by a guy who only shows up at the flea market on Sunday. He says he's been trying to sell them for several months but "no one comes to a flea market to spend $100 on a set of chisels." I'm hopeful they will still be there next Sunday!

Didn't think to get a contact phone number! :(

[Derek Cohen]

I have two Jennings drawknives. Both are take excellent edges and hold them well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Matthews]

I thought I had it bad with my Marples addiction.

Better reinforce that pegboard.
I'll bet your foundation isn't plumb anymore...

[Tom M King]

I thought I had it bad with my Marples addiction.

Better reinforce that pegboard.
I'll bet your foundation isn't plumb anymore...

You must have caught the same bug that I have. I just picked up a complete set of bench chisels with Boxwood handles last week, and I've lost count of how many sets I already have.

[Bill Houghton]

My wallet would be out at that price for a decent chisel even if it needs a new handle.

At that price for complete, clean quality chisels of that vintage, my wallet pocket would be in danger of catching on fire from the speed with which the wallet was removed from it.

[David Weaver]

I'd meet the guy at his house. His chisels would've been bought at my local flea by a flipper here who runs the circuit at the local flea market and buys everything good and then sets up his stuff. If there's an excellent deal, it's literally impossible for you, me, or anyone else to get it. All you have to do is look on the tailgate of his truck to see what he took from the flea market that day. he's a fair guy on his stuff, though, about 2/3rds of ebay price and he'll deal - he just completely eliminates the chance of getting any super deals.

I guess what I'm saying is if you wait too long, someone who sells on ebay will come by and offer the guy $85 and you won't get those chisels but someone on ebay will pay $300 for the set and everyone will be happy except you!

[Mel Miller]

I guess what I'm saying is if you wait too long, someone who sells on ebay will come by and offer the guy $85 and you won't get those chisels but someone on ebay will pay $300 for the set and everyone will be happy except you!

You may be overestimating a bit there. Check Ebay completed listings for Jennings chisels.

[David Weaver]

It'll depend on condition. I see only one set of chisels sold, which appears to be an unused box of 12 chisels with the box (something more valuable) that sold for an undisclosed amount below a $1200 ask on a Best Offer auction. Nothing else compares to a clean set of chisels with unbroken handles.

If they are clean and matching with little use, and there's 8 of them (firmers), $300 would be my guess.

[Mel Miller]

The idea that tools, etc. worth hundreds and are for sale for $100. or less at swap meets, but nobody buys them, is a real stretch of the imagination.
Sure, things like that do turn up, and I've bought a lot of them. But they don't fail to sell because nobody comes prepared to spend $100.
A big percentage of lookers at swap meets, etc. are resellers and they quickly grab up any deals.

[David Weaver]

We'll see if and when we get a look at them. There's very little sold (match chisels in a set of 8, firmers) on ebay in the last several months to compare them to. One set of 12 jennings firmers in a box that sold for some large unknown amount (on an ask of $1200).

I can't imagine that it's that important if it's $200 or $400 unless you are just posting to argue.

[Mel Miller]

I can't imagine that it's that important if it's $200 or $400 unless you are just posting to argue.

I thought I was allowed to post my own opinion even if it didn't agree with yours.

[David Weaver]

I thought I was allowed to post my own opinion even if it didn't agree with yours.

Sure, but if you're going to refer to something (like ebay listings) there ought to actually be something there that describes what you're talking about. There isn't. Just a set that sold for something south of $1200, is a bigger set and has a newish box. Meekers has a 12 chisel set of the firmers that sold for $600. The rest of the jennings stuff on ebay is junk and isn't relevant for a comparison to a matched set. Anything else similar as a set on ebay is in the $300 range. I'll exclude bergs because there are some fanatical collectors of them, but even a set of buck butt chisels that are well used are over $300.

[Ron Kellison]

Guys, the problem is that the flea market is only open on Sundays and I do not have his name/number.

I'm also now down in southern WVa preparing for a funeral of an old family member. All I can do now is wait around until next Sunday and hope for the best. At the end of the day it's not like I don't already have a more than adequate collection of good chisels! :rolleyes:

[David Weaver]

What's in southern WVA, Beckley? If so, strong accents down there!! Sorry to hear that you had to go to a funeral.

[Ron Kellison]

I'm in the countryside just a few miles removed from Lewisburg. It was voted "the coolest small town in America" a couple years ago. Beautiful country, definitely not the typical WVa desolate coal mining town as depicted in the popular media.

[Ron Kellison]

We'll see if and when we get a look at them. There's very little sold (match chisels in a set of 8, firmers) on ebay in the last several months to compare them to. One set of 12 jennings firmers in a box that sold for some large unknown amount (on an ask of $1200).

I can't imagine that it's that important if it's $200 or $400 unless you are just posting to argue.

I returned to that particular flea market this morning and the guy was there. He had not brought the chisels but said he still had them at home. I put down a deposit and will pick them up either tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm heading off on a business trip to the West Coast so I may not have time to put up photos before I leave. I got them for the agreed upon price of $100.

[george wilson]

Hey,Mel,do you still think I should not post my work unless it's recent? It isn't relevant unless it is recent? I did not catch your reasoning there.

My latest work yesterday was turning out a brass light socket to fit the burned out old chandelier in our hallway. In case anyone needs to know,a light bulb thread is called a knuckle thread,and is 7 threads per inch. I don't think anyone would want to see a picture of that,though. At least,it made my wife(who has 100 year old chandeliers in several places) happy.

[Jim Koepke]

At least,it made my wife(who has 100 year old chandeliers in several places) happy.

It is wonderful how some of the handy work we can do amazes our wives and makes them decide to keep us. :D

jtk

[David Weaver]

I returned to that particular flea market this morning and the guy was there. He had not brought the chisels but said he still had them at home. I put down a deposit and will pick them up either tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm heading off on a business trip to the West Coast so I may not have time to put up photos before I leave. I got them for the agreed upon price of $100.

I'm interested in seeing them when you get back. I can't imagine you have much exposure at $100 unless they turn out to be something completely different than what we're expecting. I'm glad you found them and not me, or I'd have another set of chisels that I don't need.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm glad you found them and not me, or I'd have another set of chisels that I don't need.

For me it would include some pants with worn knees from begging my wife to let me get them.

jtk

[Ron Kellison]

Here you go! I picked them up this morning at the agreed upon price of $100 Canadian. One chisel has a small crack in the handle which is repairable. I checked the backs and they are all either flat of very slightly concave. I'm a happy camper! It will be interesting to see how much work is required to flatten the backs and get them sharpened up!

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[Jim Koepke]

Looks like a nice set, when you have the time could you post the sizes?

Looks like the small one may be an eighth inch.

jtk

[David Weaver]

They are a little later in manufacture than many I've seen, but I'd have picked them up for $100 without hesitation ($12.50 per chisel is really spectacular, actually, and they're matched with the wide and narrow chisel capping the end of the set).

The fact that they have some rust is good (chisels from that era that don't rust are bad news).

[Ron Kellison]

Looks like a nice set, when you have the time could you post the sizes?

Looks like the small one may be an eighth inch.

jtk

Jim,

1/8, 1/4,1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1 1/4, 1 1/2. It looks like this may well have been a 10-piece set that is now missing the 3/8 and 1" chisels. The 1/8" is very thick vertically, almost like a pigsticker. The 1/4" is also a bit thicker vertically than most of this vintage but not to the extent of the 1/8".

[Bill Moser]

Way to score, Ron! Looks like a really nice set, for an excellent price. These are 12-13" long, from the looks of them? For comparison, I bought a set of (only) 4 Greenlees (1/4-1") for about $100 on ebay a while back

[David Weaver]

Jim,

1/8, 1/4,1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1 1/4, 1 1/2. It looks like this may well have been a 10-piece set that is now missing the 3/8 and 1" chisels. The 1/8" is very thick vertically, almost like a pigsticker. The 1/4" is also a bit thicker vertically than most of this vintage but not to the extent of the 1/8".

The narrower chisels must be tall in cross section or they would bend and break very easily.

I have to think a lot of people walked past these chisels and anyone who was a collector may have thought they wanted something pristine and older, but they would not survive very long for $100 at any flea market in my area. They certainly wouldn't survive if I walked past them. I am not a collector, though. I don't know what term is applied to a user who has too many things.

I get a chuckle out of the roll that says "snow mobile kit" :)

[Sean Hughto]

I've always heard this length of square edged chisel as being referred to as paring chisels, as opposed to say bench chisels and butt chisels. I have a mismatched set of paring chisels that I like and use from time to time for a discrete task or two, but they maybe get 5 % of my chisel work, as opposed to bench chisels that get 90+% (the rest would be specialty chisels of various sorts, I suppose). What tasks are paring chisels especially suited to? I mean there are plenty of sets of them out there and they mostly don't seem stout enough for framing or post and beam M&T work. Anyone?

[David Weaver]

These are firmers.

[Sean Hughto]

I always thought firmers were just a name for square as opposed to bevel edged. But semantics aside, what is their (this length) sweet spot as far as applications where they excel or are required.

[David Weaver]

I believe they are a chisel for carpenters, but so are a lot of the chisels that we use. Stanley 750 and chisels of that ilk are more carpenter's chisel than cabinetmaker's chisel.

Firmers were sold flat sided or bevel edged, and I'd presume they were generally preferred for larger work than stuff like butt chisels, though some butt chisels are pretty heavy.

(I was too lazy to post much else other than the "these are firmers", not trying to be snarky).

I have no idea what socket firmers were really used for, because most don't look like they've been used much. I use them in my shop, especially when making planes, but I guess in all honesty, that's about it. For stuff like dovetails, I use smaller/lighter and shorter chisels.

[Ron Kellison]

David, I also chuckled but, as the vendor said, it seems to have done it's job!

I'm looking forward to putting them into good working order. These will be a very nice addition to complement my selection of Japanese chisels. However, in addition to at least 4 business trips between now and the end of the year, I also have a Buffalo drill press, an old Parks planer and a small Wadkin lathe to get up an running. These items are definitely vintage (the youngest was made in 1950!) but not Neanderthal. I work by hand whenever it's practical but, after a certain age, it's nice to do the initial stock preparation by killing electrons! :)

[Bill Moser]

I always thought firmers were just a name for square as opposed to bevel edged. But semantics aside, what is their (this length) sweet spot as far as applications where they excel or are required.

I thought the same thing about "firmers" -- that they're square, not bevel edged. David says that they might be carpenter's chisels, but I don't get that. the (few) carpenters I've known didn't seem to care less about their chisels (long, short, sharp, dull, whatever). My greenlees are pretty stiff, so not the greatest for paring. On the other hand, I have couple of lakeside extras that are about the same length and design, but are really flexible, so what gives?

[Jim Koepke]

My Buck Brothers 1/8" chisel also sports a tall back.

Too bad the 3/8 & 1" are missing. Nice that the 5/8 & 7/8" are there.

My accumulation has a few 3/8" chisels, but that didn't keep me from pulling the trigger on one in my price range to fill in my Buck Brothers set, even though it is a miss match by date.

I am sure you will enjoy these. Maybe someday the other two will end up coming your way.

jtk

[David Weaver]

When I mention carpenter's chisels, I mean from an era when carpenters would've used chisels to cut joints or do neater work. A cabinetmaker would've used tang type chisels except for heavy work.

When you look up those types of chisels in an old catalog, you'll see them labeled as farmers. I think a wide one makes a nice chisel to work on tendons.

Stanley 720 & 750s are chisels probably made for carpenter's, but that doesn't mean that they aren't nice chisels.

[Mike Henderson]

I always thought firmers were just a name for square as opposed to bevel edged. But semantics aside, what is their (this length) sweet spot as far as applications where they excel or are required.
I've always differentiated between chisels the same way. A chisel that has a rectangular cross section I call a "firmer". A chisel that is beveled on both sides of the top (in cross section) I've called bench chisels.

Chisels that are "beefier" are either pigstickers or sash mortise chisels.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Here you go! I picked them up this morning at the agreed upon price of $100 Canadian. One chisel has a small crack in the handle which is repairable. I checked the backs and they are all either flat of very slightly concave. I'm a happy camper! It will be interesting to see how much work is required to flatten the backs and get them sharpened up!


One problem with older chisels is the rust and pitting on the back. If the pitting is down at the cutting edge, you have to decide whether you're going to:

1. Flatten until you get through the pits (that can be a LOT of work),
2. Grind the edge back until you reach a point where there's no pitting (which can lose some length of the chisel),
3. Grind a back bevel that's sufficient to eliminate the pits on the arris.

The other issue you may encounter is that the backs may not be close to flat, as you indicated. Most older chisels bulge in the middle or are hollow in the middle. It's obvious that our ancestors never flattened the backs of chisels. The only old chisel that I received that had a flat back came from another woodworker. When I purchased them on eBay (or other sources) they were NEVER even close to flat.

Most older chisels are plain carbon steel. As long as you understand the limitations of that steel they will work fine. After all, our ancestors produced some very fine work with those types of chisels.

Mike

[P.S. I've done a fair amount of rehabilitation on older chisels - meaning a lot of older chisels. I eventually settled on Swan firmers and Witherby bench chisels and have a complete set of both (pretty much got rid of all the others). But for my work now, I use modern chisels. I mostly keep the older chisels just because they're old and I like having them.]

[Warren Mickley]

These Jennings chisels are called American socket firmer chisels in the 1925 Melhuish catalogue (English). You can view this catalogue on the Toolemera site.

Bevel edge chisels were rare in the 18th century, but by mid 19th century bevel edge firmer chisels were common, both socket and tang. Both Nicholson (1812) and Moxon (1678) say socket chisels were carpenter tools, tang chisels were joiner's tools.

[Ron Kellison]

I finally found a window to rehab the chisels and make a small rack for them. It took about 3 hours to reshape the tips, flatten about 1/2" of the backs, establish a new bevel and put a micro-bevel on all 8 chisels. I think they look good in their new home!

I squared the tips up on a 1" belt, reshaped the bevels with an Atoma 140 diamond plate, moved on to a 600 grit diamond plate, then to a Sigma Power 1000 and 3000 grit. The micro-bevel was then made with the 3000 grit and initially polished with a 10,000 grit Sigma before a final polish with 1-micron diamond paste on an MDF plate. Figured I would treat them right!

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[Michael Ray Smith]

Buy them. Then sell them to me for $120. Where else can you get 20% return on your money in a week?

[Ron Kellison]

Michael, I bought them in October but I'm just getting around to getting them in shape to use. I gave my set of old Sandviks with the black plastic handles to my daughter over the Christmas period so that moved the chisels up the priority queue! They feel good in my hands, take a great edge and seem to be a good value for $100 Canadian. Besides all that, they just look inspiring hanging there on the board behind my bench! :)

[Ron Kellison]

I'm 71 years old now, going on 72. I've done an inventory of my various chisels and thought about the work I want to do over the next few years. I've decided that I'll be placing these chisels up on eBay sometime during the Fall at an optimistic price. At the same time, I'll be listing them on the Classified page here at a lower, more reasonable price. The EBay auction will be over within 3 days if that is still an eBay option. I'm fairly confident they will go out the door quickly, one way or the other.

[Ron Kellison]

I am a procrastinator by nature. I finally got around to listing them at an "optimistic price" on the famous not-to-be-named website. It will be interesting to see what reaction a listing of C.E. Jennings Arrowhead chisels gets out there in the cruel, mercenary world of auctions and tool vultures! I put a starting bid at a sufficiently high point that I won't be a raging mess if someone gets a great deal!

[ken hatch]

I am a procrastinator by nature. I finally got around to listing them at an "optimistic price" on the famous not-to-be-named website. It will be interesting to see what reaction a listing of C.E. Jennings Arrowhead chisels gets out there in the cruel, mercenary world of auctions and tool vultures! I put a starting bid at a sufficiently high point that I won't be a raging mess if someone gets a great deal!

Ron,

Too funny, and MsBubba thinks I'm bad. I'm saving the two posts to show her the next time she is on my case :).

Thanks,

ken