PDA

View Full Version : "Best" mahogany finish



Matt Meiser
07-07-2005, 3:11 PM
I've successfully talked my brother into not dying the buffet but just going with an oil finish and letting it darken naturally over time. What is going to give me the best results? I've come up with a few possibilities:


BLO
BLO/Poly/Mineral Spirits "Witches Brew"
Seal-A-Cell/Arm-R-Seal (the "David Marks" finish)
Minwax Mahogany stain followed with several coats of Minwax Polyurethane :)

Jim Becker
07-07-2005, 4:14 PM
BLO, shellac sealer and the top coat of your choice. The "color" of shellac flakes you choose will depend upon the particular mahogany you use. Honduras that is color matched is not as "blond" as some other varieties of things called mahogany. Think of the shellac as a toner in addition to being a sealer.

But you can also use a chemical to uniformly darken the mahogany. Check out Alan Turner's recent Newport project in the Neader forum for that look. Awesome, both in photos and in person.

Chris Barton
07-07-2005, 4:28 PM
Just a heads up here, mahogany doesn't darken over time. Quite the opposite in fact, it gets lighter...

Chris

Donnie Raines
07-07-2005, 4:30 PM
Just a heads up here, mahogany doesn't darken over time. Quite the opposite in fact, it gets lighter...

Chris
I was going to point that out as well.

I like to apply a mahogany danish oil to deepen the reddish color and also even out the color. I seal that with de-waxed shellac and top coat as needed. I like to use a resin varnish with Mahogany.

Matt Meiser
07-07-2005, 7:45 PM
Hmm. Maybe the original plan for Transtint Brown Mahogany dye will be best. I was going to follow that with the witches brew under the original plan.

Doug Shepard
07-07-2005, 8:11 PM
You might also want to factor in some grain filler and sanding back before putting on the finish. I went without it on a small mahog table some time back and have always regretted not using some. It's not really a visible problem, but even though the table feels smooth you can feel the grain in some places if you run your fingernail over it slowly. I thought the finish and sanding in between coats would give me enough pore filling, but it just didn't work out that way. Mahogany isn't as bad as red oak, but getting a really smooth finish isn't as easy as with cherry or maple for instance.

Cecil Arnold
07-07-2005, 9:06 PM
I'm going to try to post three pictures, all of Honduran mahogany tables with different finishes. The first is sanded, filled with grain filler, and finished with a wiping varnish. The second is shot with garner shellac, then coated with three coats of varnish. The final is another table, same style, that has a coat of super blond shellac followed by several coats of varnish. IMHO, the filled and finished with wiping varnish was more work than it was worth for the finish. The second table with garnet really let the grain pop and with three coats of minwax poly is about as slick as you can find. Unfortunately the light is not good on this pic. The final is only to give an indication of a three year old mahogany table without anything but shellac. I think Jim is right, but you might want to add a coat of dewaxed garnet shellac over the BLO.Oh, and a stelth golat, the bowl on the third table is a piece of cherry I got from creeker John Hart.

Kirk (KC) Constable
07-08-2005, 4:43 AM
Just a heads up here, mahogany doesn't darken over time. Quite the opposite in fact, it gets lighter...

Chris

Someone needs to explain that to all the Honduras mahogany I've worked with over the years...because it sure did get darker, very much like cherry but to a lesser drgree.

KC

Donnie Raines
07-08-2005, 10:00 AM
Someone needs to explain that to all the Honduras mahogany I've worked with over the years...because it sure did get darker, very much like cherry but to a lesser drgree.

KC

Not sure how to 'splain that one. All the mahogany I have used and left "natural" in color has either stayed close to the same color or has lighten. Much like walnut does....not sure what to say.

Either way, if an additional color is added the lightening of the wood is a mute point....I guess :rolleyes:

Mark Singer
07-08-2005, 10:21 AM
Mahogany when sawn is as light as it wil get! Ultraviolet light (sunlight) naturally darkens the wood as Kirk pointed out. It will get darker and richer over time....the character will become more prominent over time as well. Walnut is the opposite it lightens over time and becomes more amber. Jatoba darkens, wenge lightens, Paduk turns brown , darkens and loses its red color.

I usuall use a tung oil finish on mahogany.....I love te natural color of the wood as it darkens.

Donnie Raines
07-08-2005, 10:26 AM
Mahogany when sawn is as light as it wil get! Ultraviolet light (sunlight) naturally darkens the wood as Kirk pointed out. It will get darker and richer over time....the character will become more prominent over time as well. Walnut is the opposite it lightens over time and becomes more amber. Jatoba darkens, wenge lightens, Paduk turns brown , darkens and loses its red color.

I usuall use a tung oil finish on mahogany.....I love te natural color of the wood as it darkens.

My experience has been diffrent, and it appears that the gent above has had the same experience as myself. By no means do I wish to sound argumentative, but the mahogany I have used has, indeed, become lighter over time. Again, that is on the material where a no pigment was added.

Jim Hinze
07-08-2005, 10:56 AM
Matt,

Potassium Dichromate will give a nice even darker tone to the mahagony, then you can top it with whatever you'd like. David Marks uses Potassium Dichromate for most of his mahagony pieces then tops with seal-a-cell. Here's a link to some more info from his website:

Potassium Dichromate (http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/Where_can_I_get_Potassium_Dichromate_46686.asp)

Mark Singer
07-08-2005, 12:01 PM
Here are some pics of mahogany as subjected to natural light.....newly finished cabinet oil finish and doors with oil finish which are 4 years old

Donnie Raines
07-08-2005, 12:07 PM
Here are some pics of mahogany as subjected to natural light.....newly finished cabinet oil finish and doors with oil finish which are 4 years old
Hard to tell much from the photos....but I am not suggesting that you are in error. I am simply stating that, in my experience, there has been change in color toward the lighter side. Again, no pigment added and simply a pre cat lacquer film finish. I suepct the oil may be the "issue", for the projects I applied oil to have change little if any through the years.

Smile...it's Friday...... :D :cool:

Mark Singer
07-08-2005, 12:27 PM
Donnie,

I found this on the internet and it is consistent with my experience...


BBS.php (http://montana-riverboats.com/sandoo.php?forum=Driftboats_2004&mode=show_msg&msg=0248.0001) <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>... Honduras is the good hardwood that most boatbuilders use. ... should I expect that the color of the mahogany will darken with age, even after it's sealed with ...
montana-riverboats.com/sandoo.php?forum=Driftboats_ 2004&mode=show_msg&msg=0248.0001 - 5k - Supplemental Result - <NOBR>Cached (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:qnkCqbKkQ1UJ:montana-riverboats.com/sandoo.php%3Fforum%3DDriftboats_2004%26mode%3Dshow _msg%26msg%3D0248.0001+honduras+mahogany+darken&hl=en) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=related:montana-riverboats.com/sandoo.php%3Fforum%3DDriftboats_2004%26mode%3Dshow _msg%26msg%3D0248.0001)</NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Choosing Wood at www.plesums.com/wood (http://www.plesums.com/wood/choosingwood.html)
African mahogany (Botanical name- Khaya) is a somewhat softer wood than ...
With exposure to light over time, colors will darken to a deep orange red. ...
www.plesums.com/wood/choosingwood.html - 29k - <NOBR>Cached (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:ESYSjt883_QJ:www.plesums.com/wood/choosingwood.html+mahogany+darken+with+time&hl=en) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=related:www.plesums.com/wood/choosingwood.html)</NOBR> Woods and Finish (http://www.msrandcompany.com/Furniture/Finish.asp)


Hard to tell much from the photos....but I am not suggesting that you are in error. I am simply stating that, in my experience, there has been change in color toward the lighter side. Again, no pigment added and simply a pre cat lacquer film finish. I suepct the oil may be the "issue", for the projects I applied oil to have change little if any through the years.

Smile...it's Friday...... :D :cool:

Donnie Raines
07-08-2005, 12:32 PM
Obviously my experience with color change matter's little here. Again, I never suggested you were wrong....just that there are other experiences out there.

Mark Singer
07-08-2005, 12:54 PM
Donnie,

I am not arguing at all I am just trying to post accurate information because members use it in their projects
I admire your work and I agree wit you on almost every post!
I am smiling ...but I had a terible night at Design Review....our local board would not approve 3 projects I presented . That is why I love woodworking...I can get advice from friends and then do what I think is right...Architecture is getting real tough!

Obviously my experience with color change matter's little here. Again, I never suggested you were wrong....just that there are other experiences out there.

Donnie Raines
07-08-2005, 1:03 PM
Donnie,

I am not arguing at all I am just trying to post accurate information because members use it in their projects
I admire your work and I agree wit you on almost every post!
I am smiling ...but I had a terible night at Design Review....our local board would not approve 3 projects I presented . That is why I love woodworking...I can get advice from friends and then do what I think is right...Architecture is getting real tough!

Well...I am glad that your not arguing with me becuase I suspect I may be on few "others" list today and who knows what will come of that(local stuff...not wood related). I am also flattered that you agree with me in most cases....given your expertise that means alot. Were my camera operational I would snap a few pix of the occasional table and bookcase sitting in front of me in my office. I think you would have a better understanding of where I am coming from. Hopefully the gent who started the thread will acheive the desired look and post for all of us to drool over.

Matt Meiser
07-08-2005, 1:43 PM
Mark, what Tung Oil finish are you using?

Cecil Arnold
07-08-2005, 1:56 PM
Mark and Donnie, I think you are both right. While on a cruse in the Gulf of Mexico a few years ago we stopped on the island of Roatan (I think that's a correct spelling) which is off the cosat of Houduras. They had local crafts for sale, as is always the case, and we bought a nice turned bowl about 12-15" that was made from local "Honduran" mahogany. The bowl is at our place in the country or I would post a picture, however it has both sapwood and heart wood in it. The heart wood is the beautiful brown/red color we associate with this wood, while the sapwood is white. We are going to the country next week so I will try to get a picture to post.

Mark Singer
07-08-2005, 4:56 PM
Matt,

I have been using Daly's Ben Matte from Seattle . There was just a test / comparison in FWW and Min Wax Wie on Poly did very well. It is less money and gave great protection. Most of the Tung oils are polermerized so they dry faster. Pure tung oil takes days to dry and is often mixed with Varnish and Turp to add protection and speed the drying. The General Finishes have a good following , but did not do too well in the test.


Mark, what Tung Oil finish are you using?

Bob Noles
07-08-2005, 5:29 PM
Mark,


Funny you should bring up the Minwax wipe on poly and the general products in the same sentence. I have so far used nothing but the Minwax in my short time with WW and have had really great experience with it first hand. A friend of mine who is also a member of this forum recommended the General Arm-R and I finally got around to ordering it from Rockler a few days ago and it just arrived today by UPS. I am anxious to give it a shot from all the good things I am hearing about it.

Jim Hinze
07-09-2005, 12:49 AM
Mark,


Funny you should bring up the Minwax wipe on poly and the general products in the same sentence. I have so far used nothing but the Minwax in my short time with WW and have had really great experience with it first hand. A friend of mine who is also a member of this forum recommended the General Arm-R and I finally got around to ordering it from Rockler a few days ago and it just arrived today by UPS. I am anxious to give it a shot from all the good things I am hearing about it.

Bob, I think you'll be very happy with the General Finishes product line. I've tried a bunch of different products, including the MinWax line and for overall finish, depth of grain, etc, nothing IMHO beats the general products.

Matt Meiser
07-12-2005, 3:41 PM
I did some testing over the weekend. 3 coats of BLO, the first one applied at 130 degrees. Over that I put a thin coat of shellac and then one coat of wipe on poly (I'll use 2 or 3 coats when its for real.) The finish turned out great. The only drawback is that its currently pretty light colored. I'm going to try adding some Transtint dye to the oil and/or shellac on some test pieces next weekend.

lou sansone
07-12-2005, 9:41 PM
Since we are on the topic of mahogany finish, I was wondering what you all think about using grain filler like por-o-pac or similar on mahogany. I have used it with great results on walnut. I do have some future plans for mahogany pieces and wondered what folks thought about filling the grain.


lou

Jim Becker
07-12-2005, 9:45 PM
Lou, the filler will work well. After and coloration of the wood and sealing with shellac or whatever...put on the filler. (Never put it on the bare wood, especially the "flavored" versions!) Smooth it out and remove it from the surface with the appropriate rubber paddle. Lightly sand and reapply if necessary. Otherwise, lightly sand and proceed with your finishing regimen.

Gary Herrmann
07-12-2005, 10:06 PM
I've been very pleased with Seal A Cell and Arm a Seal. Wet sanding between coats, with a very light wet sanding on the final coat (I believe the last one was at 600 grit).

Chris Barton
07-17-2005, 8:24 AM
This notion that mahogany gets lighter in tone over time is well borne out and a standard of the antique industry. The only way to make it darker is to stain it or, you can try to keep it at the same color using a finish that has a built in UV block.

Mark Singer
07-17-2005, 9:46 AM
Chris,

In my experience...milling mahogany lightens it and the sun (ultraviolet light) will darken it. So it darkens over time.
This was taken from the internet...

http://www.plesums.com/wood/choosingwood.html

Genuine (Honduras) Mahogany

http://www.plesums.com/wood/hondurasmahoganys.jpg
Mahogany is one of the traditional furniture woods, known for the straight, smooth, semi-open grain with many cross grains, that accepts a fine finish. It is hard and durable, and over the centuries has probably been the primary furniture wood. Much of the current wood is plantation grown in Latin America. The color of the wood ranges from yellow brown to dark reddish brown. With age it becomes a rich dark red-brown. Most mahogany furniture is stained or dyed to accelerate the aging. It is a bit lighter weight than maple, and comparable to oak in strength. It withstands moisture well, so is popular in wooden boats, entry doors, or other outdoor projects. It is easy to work with relatively few defects.