Got Chairs?

[Frank Strazza]

My Daughter and I just got through gluing up 10 ladder back chairs. I have to finish them for a customer before hunting season starts. Folks thats September first! Thats why its past midnight and I am still in the shop!

I started with 2 white oak logs and split all the wood by hand, then drawknifed it and hand planed it. I used the lathe to shape the tenon ends, which are about .010 over size. I have BONE dry rungs going into the air dried posts, which have a little moisture in them. So whats going to happen is the legs are going to shrink around the rungs and hopefully never come loose. Thats the way its been done for hundreds of years, right?

Now its on to fitting the backs in and then weaving the hickory bark seats.

You can read more on my blog at www.heritagewoodschool.com

Thanks for looking!

Frank



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[Graham Haydon]

Nice work, super images too!

[Warren Mickley]

I started with 2 white oak logs and split all the wood by hand, then drawknifed it and hand planed it. I used the lathe to shape the tenon ends, which are about .010 over size. I have BONE dry rungs going into the air dried posts, which have a little moisture in them. So whats going to happen is the legs are going to shrink around the rungs and hopefully never come loose. Thats the way its been done for hundreds of years, right?



I am curious why you did not use the lathe for the whole rung. I would have thought that this was the historic method. I also wonder if you have any historical evidence that woodworkers used dryer material for rungs than posts before the 20th century.

[Jim Matthews]

That ladder of ladderbacks is impressive.

I haven't seen so many chairs stacked that high
since the Shanghai circus came to town.

Kudos

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[Brian Holcombe]

Awesome thread Frank, and nice work!

glad to see some more chair addiction spreading....

[Frank Strazza]

I am curious why you did not use the lathe for the whole rung. I would have thought that this was the historic method. I also wonder if you have any historical evidence that woodworkers used dryer material for rungs than posts before the 20th century.

Thanks to all for the comments. Sorry for the messy shop, I do this stuff for a living and sometimes deadlines and money gets in the way of taking the time to clean it up.

Warren, it is actually faster to shape the rungs with a drawknife then do them all on the lathe. Working the green wood is quite easy, especially if it is all riven out and straight. I know some folks turn them all, but traditionally they were drawknifed by hand, then if one wanted you could put them on the lathe and turn them down.

In regards to your second question. There has been a fair amount of research on the subject, mainly by J. Alexander, www.greenwoodworking.com.

I was talking with Curtis Buchannan the other day and he said several years ago he visited several ladder back chair shops, these were all shops that had been going for 5 and 6 generations, buried down in the backwoods of West Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky. He said that not one of them had a bottle of glue in the shop. And its not like these guys new about the other shops. He said all the rungs were "fire" dried, I like to say "BONE" dry and the posts were air dried, therefore a little moisture still left in them. Curtis said the rungs were about .005 to .010 over size and then forced in the hole. These are the chairs that have been around for ever, the chairs that your great grandmother had and has been passed down. Simply studying wood and its properties, all of this makes a lot of sense. It is also extremely important which way you orient the grain in the hole, to maximize the strength factor....

I could write more, but I have a deadline, I have chairs to finish!

[Roy Lindberry]

Thanks to all for the comments. Sorry for the messy shop, I do this stuff for a living and sometimes deadlines and money gets in the way of taking the time to clean it up.

Don't apologize for the messy shop...those pictures made me yearn for your shop. Shavings piled high, wood stove, good lighting, wood floors... I love it!

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, it is actually faster to shape the rungs with a drawknife then do them all on the lathe. Working the green wood is quite easy, especially if it is all riven out and straight. I know some folks turn them all, but traditionally they were drawknifed by hand, then if one wanted you could put them on the lathe and turn them down.

In regards to your second question. There has been a fair amount of research on the subject, mainly by J. Alexander, www.greenwoodworking.com (http://www.greenwoodworking.com).

I was talking with Curtis Buchannan the other day and he said several years ago he visited several ladder back chair shops, these were all shops that had been going for 5 and 6 generations, buried down in the backwoods of West Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky. He said that not one of them had a bottle of glue in the shop. And its not like these guys new about the other shops. He said all the rungs were "fire" dried, I like to say "BONE" dry and the posts were air dried, therefore a little moisture still left in them. Curtis said the rungs were about .005 to .010 over size and then forced in the hole. These are the chairs that have been around for ever, the chairs that your great grandmother had and has been passed down. Simply studying wood and its properties, all of this makes a lot of sense. It is also extremely important which way you orient the grain in the hole, to maximize the strength factor....



I used a drawknife to prepare turning stock 35 years ago, but I think it is faster to use a hatchet. If we look at historical plates and drawings of turning shops, what we see over and over is hatchet and stump, not drawknife and shaving horse.

Concerning the "bone dry" rungs, I specifically asked for evidence before the 20th century; I was really interested in 17th or 18th century material. You responded with 20th century evidence. Alexander's speculations are not historic documentation. And somebody's grandfather is not the same as the 18th century. I am not saying that drying rungs or tenons is a bad idea, just that I think it lacks historic evidence.

[Steve Voigt]

Nice looking chairs, and I love your shop! Glad to see more chair threads lately, too.
I suspect Warren is right about the extra dry tenons not being a very old, but it seems like a sound technique to me. A lot of people are doing it, that's for sure.
Looking forward to seeing the completed project.

[Frank Strazza]

HI Warren,

I in fact used a hatchet after riving the wood, especially for working the leg stock down.



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I agree I really don't have proof about historical evidence of 17 and 18th century methods here. Although Alexander has worked extensively with Follansbee who is well versed in 17th century construction methods. I suppose I should talk with Follansbee about it.

This style chair making is really an English tradition, the English Bodgers used a shaving horse and drawknife. They would take their tools to the woods and set up shop. Make a bunch of chair parts and bring them back to market. The BBC did a great documentary on the subject, hard to find, it used to be out on youtube, but got taken down. I am not sure how far back the Bodgers tradition goes but I imagine quite far.

It only makes sense to use the natural properties of the wood compression. And that is as old as the hills, much older then the 1600s!