SawStop New Sliding Table

[Bob Potter]

I don't know if any one has seen this yet. I just saw it tonight on YouTube. SawStop has a new sliding table for their table saw.
Hope this works-----Bob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw0282Ymv6o

[Keith Hankins]

When I first heard of this a couple months ago, I called them and they only had the marketing information and could not even nail down final cost. I'm interested, but after seeing a true slider where the table is right against the blade, I wonder. Interesting though. I'll probably bite just to see. :)

[Chris Padilla]

It looks very nice...not sure if it is a grand nice but very nice. :)

[Tim Janssen]

4 Years ago I installed the Grizzly version. From what I can see there is a fair bit of similarity between the two although the SawStop fence looks far more superior to the Grizzly unit.
Cheers,

Tim

[Bob Potter]

I have the Sliding table from Grizzly and bought it at Grizzly in Springfield Mo. for something like $570 with store discount. As I posted when I got the sliding table it is absolutely perfect but the fence leaves a lot to be desired. I am thinking about a Incra telescoping flip fence 27"to 49" and Incra's flip stop.
Still even with the not so good fence it is still a bargain compared to some others.

Bob

[fRED mCnEILL]

It looks like a glorified miter gauge to me.

[David Weaver]

It looks like a glorified miter gauge to me.

Me, too. Anodized aluminum...blech.

[Glenn Kramer]

I have the Jessem sliding table on my SawStop and love it.

[Mike Henderson]

Anybody know when it will be available? I hear it's $999.

Looking at the video, one thing that might be a problem is that it might get in the way of other use of the saw. It doesn't look like it can be easily removed when you want it out of the way.

Also, it mounts where the wing would go. And I've already built my outfeed table so that would have to be modified. Just too many questions at this point, especially for $1K.

Mike

[Bruce Page]

September/October according to the video.

[Peter Kelly]

It looks like the almost the exact same sliding table as the Grizzly / King / etc.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/t/t10223-148483b31972100ae553d09a83b3b9b3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/74HR6uP.png

Guess they didn't labor over it that hard...

[Beau Cassidy]

$999??? You gotta be kidding.....

[Myk Rian]

That company is still in dream land

[Jim German]

Doesn't look at all like the grizzly one to me. Certainly a similar idea, but the designs are significantly different (as are the prices).

Only seems worthwhile if you do a ton of a crosscutting on the tablesaw.

[John A langley]

Myk you're so right

[David Kumm]

I just looked at the one at IWF. Extrusions are very heavy, flip stops are good and cursors are easy to read. The table can be mounted flush with the front of the saw which gives a 36" crosscut and IMO the better way to keep the rip flexibility. Although the miter gauge is better than most new ( not as good as the old heavy iron ones ) it doesn't have a real easy way to take it on and off and no way to positively lock it at 90. Cursor is easy to read but I prefer a CC fence that you can turn a knob and remove and lock at 90. A little off is a lot on a 36-48" panel. Not a bad compromise but still not a true short stroke slider. Dave

[Craig Hoehn]

It took them 6 years to develop a sliding table attachment that doesn’t look all that different from what is already out there? And they couldn’t figure out how to machine reasonably accurate detents in that time? I think Ill pass.

[Mark Carlson]

I have a Jessem slider that looks similar to this, which I love. On the SawStop version, I don't like the leg that supports the unit. I'd be kicking and tripping over that constantly.

[Chris Padilla]

It took them 6 years to develop a sliding table attachment that doesn’t look all that different from what is already out there? And they couldn’t figure out how to machine reasonably accurate detents in that time? I think Ill pass.

If you listen to the video, they have a good reason for skipping detents in the design. It had something to do with them slowly being off over time due to wear...or something like that. Still, I would think a nice clean lock AT LEAST at 90 degrees to be reasonable since that position is likely to be used most of the time.

[Mark Carlson]

I look at my jessem slider as a replacement for a cross cut sled and not as a heavy duty miter gauge. I want it to stay at 90 to the blade and use a incra miter gauge for angles. But I also find that the majority of my crosscuts are at 90.

~mark

[John Sanford]

Lack of locking in to 90 is a serious shortcoming in my mind. Very serious. Here's hoping the SawStop will make a true Pan-Atlantic slider, one that incorporates the best of both the Euro sliders and North American cabinet saws, with SawStoppy blade brake technology on top.

[Jim Andrew]

I've never had a sliding table attachment, but it looks interesting. Sure would be a big improvement over a miter gauge. Compared to my Hammer saw, it is lacking. The only way they will come close is to design a true sliding tablesaw. Thought I would use my old Unisaw more, having both, but I just walk by it on the way to the Hammer slider.

[Rod Sheridan]

Lack of locking in to 90 is a serious shortcoming in my mind. Very serious. Here's hoping the SawStop will make a true Pan-Atlantic slider, one that incorporates the best of both the Euro sliders and North American cabinet saws, with SawStoppy blade brake technology on top.

I'm curious John, what would you take from a cabinet saw to add to a Euro slider?

Regards, Rod.

[jack forsberg]

Lack of locking in to 90 is a serious shortcoming in my mind. Very serious. Here's hoping the SawStop will make a true Pan-Atlantic slider, one that incorporates the best of both the Euro sliders and North American cabinet saws, with SawStoppy blade brake technology on top.

saws stop will never make a real slider as it would never be able to stop an 18" blade and i am sure it is limited to the smaller hp saws for the amateur market. if what there calling that Micky mouse attachment is a dimension slider for solid wood and its better than the others out there. you sure as hell know they never seen a real dimension slider with a quadrant fence that have been made as far back as the 1880s. i would agree that the preset in that sawstop table would wallow but to hear him say it better to not have them is funny and clearly a cheeping of its functions. How about making the take out of better material saw stop and the miter out of better than folded tin plate??

Its whats i expected to see from them so i am not surprised in the quality. After all all they have to impress is the ones moving up from a big box store saws or the 10" cabinet saw user.

[Phil Thien]

Huh, when are they going to ship the portable jobsite saw?

Nothing worse than a company that announces a product they can't produce.

I have a Ryobi BT3000 with which I'm happy, I added an extra-long miter slot extension and can cross-cut 24" with ease. I'd like SS technology, I think, but I don't want a saw that is hundreds of pounds.

[Prashun Patel]

Jack, I can see you have some serious experience here, and I'm eager to understand for my knowledge what you intended to write, but your post as written seems cryptic to me. Can you please clarify?

"i would agree that the preset in that sawstop table would wallow but to hear him say it better to not have them is funny and clearly a cheeping of its functions. How about making the take out of better material"

[johnny means]

That company is still in dream land

You do realize sell more cabinet saws than anyone else, right?

[David Kumm]

Jack and I are spoiled with our old iron sliders but if SS chose to make a similar design for a short stroke slider, with a decent gauge or better yet a quadrant, it would be pretty much alone in the market. Even with the small blade limitation of the technology, the saw would be pretty unique and far better than any add on system. Lock the table and you have a traditional rip saw, unlock and you have a slider with a 36-48" travel and the table right next to the blade. If the table pulled out to allow a dado, life would be really good but at least a bushing on the arbor flange like other sliders use would work for dado capability. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Jack, I also am surprised at the lack of indexing for the crosscut fence.

It doesn't have to be expensive, just adjustable and repeatable.

The issue for me is it's a cabinet saw, with the blade far away from the sliding table, and the saw ergonomics with the slider extension and leg make it very cumbersome.

The lack of an outrigger also really hampers the ability to cut larger solid pieces or sheet goods.

I don't think there's much call however for a saw in excess of 12" diameter until you get into industrial type sliders...............Rod.

[Peter Kelly]

Not sure how you'd add a SS to a scoring blade in addition to the main one if they'd done a format-style slider.

[Dale Murray]

It took them 6 years to develop a sliding table attachment that doesn’t look all that different from what is already out there?

To be fair, if a new car company came along with a new car that took 10 years to develop would you be shocked if it had four wheels, doors, and a steering wheel? Function can determine form factor.

With that said, I have zero intention of paying for one of these and imagine it will be the pro shop that pick one up.

[David Kumm]

I'm willing to compromise more than Jack. A heavy AL extrusion for the slider is just fine in my world. It does need eccentric bushings to establish the quadrant angles but that can be done and adjusted by the operator. An outrigger isn't really possible here as the saw itself isn't heavy enough to balance much weight hanging off the side but a hardwood saw that handles panels 36x36 will deal with most cabinet needs. A rip fence that moves forward and back should be mandatory for a slider, even a short stroke. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Not sure how you'd add a SS to a scoring blade in addition to the main one if they'd done a format-style slider.

Hi, a simple mechanical linkage would be possible, the scoring saw only needs to move a few mm...............Rod.

[johnny means]

Hi, a simple mechanical linkage would be possible, the scoring saw only needs to move a few mm...............Rod.

I really don't think there is any reason to add breaking capabilities to the scoring blade. Have you ever seen a scoring blade injury? Not nearly the catastrophic type injury that the SS was made to prevent.

[Alan Bienlein]

I really don't think there is any reason to add breaking capabilities to the scoring blade. Have you ever seen a scoring blade injury? Not nearly the catastrophic type injury that the SS was made to prevent.

I have. The shop I worked in had an SCMI and an Altendorf 10" sliders. The scoring blade was not covered by the guard and it was very easy to forget about it if you didn't keep your focus on what you were doing. The guy went to brush away some dust and two of his fingers when across the scoring blade.

As for the price of the Sawstop slider I think it's about $500 to much but they feel the market will support it just as Kreg did when they over priced their beaded face frame setup and eventually ended up lowering the price.

As for no detents if I remember correctly none of the production sliders I ever cut on had detents for the fence to cut angles so in reality your not really missing anything by not having them on the Sawstop version. I personally have the Jessum sliding table attachment on my Ridgid TS3650 and have never missed not having detents. I have crosscut up to 42" wide sheet stock up to 96" long with no problems with it.

[Ray Newman]

Several years ago, I thought it would be the cat's meow to add a sliding table to my Uni-saw. Well I bought one -- can not recall if it was either the "mid-sized" Exaktor or an Excaliber. Worked it or awhile, but I became frustrated with the amount of floor space it consumed and the time it took to remove/replace the fence. Even though there was a 90 degree stop for the fence, I never trusted it -- the stop just did not seem to be repeatable. Finally I took it off and it is still "in storage" for the Uni-saw's next owner.

I will say that I could cut some good sized plywood pieces (3/4"x36"x72") with it and without any problems. The outrigger leg supporting the table were sturdy and the table did not sag. But just not enough use to really justify keep it on the saw.

After looking at a K-3 Hammer at the Portland wood show one year, it dawned on me: to be really effective a table saw must be designed and built for a slider to make effective use of a sliding table. A cabinet saw with an add-on slider just really does not fit the bill.

I think if a saw owner is considering one of the after-market add-on sliders, find a show room where you can carefully examine one and what is involved in removing/replacing the fence, etc. Then carefully and realistically ask if it will fit your needs.

As always, your experiences might vary.

[Jim German]

saws stop will never make a real slider as it would never be able to stop an 18" blade and i am sure it is limited to the smaller hp saws for the amateur market.

The number of saws shipping with 18" blades is tiny tiny tiny. Even so there is real reason that the brake couldn't be redesigned to work on an 18" blade. You're comparing a ~$5k sawstop to industrial saws in the $25k price range, thats just ridiculous.

[Erik Loza]

...to be really effective a table saw must be designed and built for a slider to make effective use of a sliding table. A cabinet saw with an add-on slider just really does not fit the bill....

This ^^^^....

No opinion on the SS except that one thing pops into my mind: By the time you add the sliding attachment to one of these, are you not getting close to price territory of a small Euro-built slider that does have a frame table, outrigger, scoring, and all that stuff? It could make sense for someone who already owns a cabinet saw but I wonder for the guy who wants to buy it all, new.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[mreza Salav]

Jack, I think you have some valid points and at the same time are making unreasonable comparisons.
It is like comparing a 1/2 pickup with a semi (sawstop vs a slider with 18" blade). Forget about safety and brake, the saw is better than any "cabinet saw" on the "market" (I mean these days) of the same size, as simple as that. As for the fence, again it is not a bad fence, at least it is no worse that what General or biesemeyer. It is not a Unifence style (short/tall or sliding) but there are pluses and minuses to each.
Now to the sliding attachment, I totally agree they are never anywhere close to a true slider and as the Sawstop guy says it is not meant to handle full sheets either. I guess it is just in place of a cross-cut sled.

[Erik Loza]

Not to jack this thread too much but I just remembered an interesting remark from one of our territory reps at the IWF show. He told me that almost every shop he goes into that has one of these, they have deactivated the cartridge-device and just run it like a regular cabinet saw. A lot of shops store their lumber outside, it gets wet, they go to cut it and "pow!". In a shop, time is money and they don't want to be fiddling with changing the cartridges or having it go off all the time. I thought that was interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

Jack is comparing his PK as a short stroke to the SS slider. He likely has less $$ in the PK than what the SS would cost. My Whitney 77 slider with lots of extra miter gauges and stops was < $1500 rehabbed. Not to turn this into another new vs old but the comparison is not really pickup vs semi. My point is there should be a market for a true short stroke slider, SS or MM or anyone who will build one. Dave

[Chris Padilla]

Not to jack this thread too much but I just remembered an interesting remark from one of our territory reps at the IWF show. He told me that almost every shop he goes into that has one of these, they have deactivated the cartridge-device and just run it like a regular cabinet saw. A lot of shops store their lumber outside, it gets wet, they go to cut it and "pow!". In a shop, time is money and they don't want to be fiddling with changing the cartridges or having it go off all the time. I thought that was interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

The safety device(s) of the SS appeal mostly, I think, to shop schools and the hobbyists. The pros may simply like the overall design of the SS because is IS a very nice cabinet saw even without the hotdog saver.

[jack forsberg]

The number of saws shipping with 18" blades is tiny tiny tiny. Even so there is real reason that the brake couldn't be redesigned to work on an 18" blade. You're comparing a ~$5k sawstop to industrial saws in the $25k price range, thats just ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more five grand for a saws stop is ridiculous

[Andrew Joiner]

Not to jack this thread too much but I just remembered an interesting remark from one of our territory reps at the IWF show. He told me that almost every shop he goes into that has one of these, they have deactivated the cartridge-device and just run it like a regular cabinet saw. A lot of shops store their lumber outside, it gets wet, they go to cut it and "pow!". In a shop, time is money and they don't want to be fiddling with changing the cartridges or having it go off all the time. I thought that was interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

I'm not surprised by this Eric. I'd heard there was an insurance discount for an employer to use a sawstop. Once the insurance industry finds out that in the real world many are deactivated the discount may disappear. I'm sure a lot of pro shops don't use guards either. None of the ones I worked in did.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought a new Hammer slider last winter, on their promotion, got the 79" stroke and 48" wide table, most of the options, with freight was a little under 7000$ The saw is 12" with a 4hp 220 motor. The shorter stroke saws are less expensive, so you don't need to compare a SS to a 10 hp 10 1/2' stroke slider. Hammer makes comparable size saws, for comparable money. Don't think MM is in that market.

[David Kumm]

I bought a new Hammer slider last winter, on their promotion, got the 79" stroke and 48" wide table, most of the options, with freight was a little under 7000$ The saw is 12" with a 4hp 220 motor. The shorter stroke saws are less expensive, so you don't need to compare a SS to a 10 hp 10 1/2' stroke slider. Hammer makes comparable size saws, for comparable money. Don't think MM is in that market.

Yes, I think Hammer does make a 31" and 48" slider that can rest flush with the front of the table and not have the carriage stick out. Would be similar to SS in build. Dave

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Couldn't agree more five grand for a saws stop is ridiculous

25K for a slider for the home hobbyist is even more ridiculous. BUT I guess you could go pick up a sheet of plywood with a semi if you could afford it. You are comparing apples and grapefruit.

[jack forsberg]

25K for a slider for the home hobbyist is even more ridiculous. BUT I guess you could go pick up a sheet of plywood with a semi if you could afford it. You are comparing apples and grapefruit.


Payed $100 for my 18" short slider TS. thats 1/50 of the price of a sawstop. may have put $400 into it

this is what it looked like after a can of rattle paint I would show a video of how it works and what makes a good dimension saws but i don't want it embarrass sawstop description of a dimension slider with a design that is from the 1920s. One got to ask what research they did?? this is only one sample too and there are plenty. Dave's right they would be alone in the market if they did do a real slider for timber

http://www.owwm.org/download/file.php?id=50991

[Jim German]

this is what it looked like after a can of rattle paint

I need to get me some of that rattle paint!

[David Kumm]

Jack does understate his ability to restore. Dave

[Chris Padilla]

Jack does understate his ability to restore. Dave

An understated understatement. ;)

[Chris Padilla]

Yes, I think Hammer does make a 31" and 48" slider that can rest flush with the front of the table and not have the carriage stick out. Would be similar to SS in build. Dave

I just drooled all over my keyboard at the Hammer site checking out their table saws. They are cheaper and better IMO compared to SS. I always thought I would get a SS but now I'm not so sure....

[johnny means]

Not to jack this thread too much but I I just remembered an interesting remark wouldfrom one of ourterritory reps at the me that almost every shop he goes into that has one of these, they have deactivated the cartridge-device and just run it like a regular cabinet saw. A lot of shops store their lumber outside, it gets wet, they go to cut it and "pow!". In a shop, time is money and they don't want to be fiddling with changing the cartridges or having it go off all the time. I thought that was interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

As a Sawstop owner, user, and long time wood shop professional, I must say this statement doesn't pass the sniff test. No shop is using lumber so wet that it would activate the brake.
Lumber is any shops biggest expense next to labor, no one is storing their material out in the rain.

[jack forsberg]

curious if anyone has measured the moisture content of a wiener.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't know,Jack ,but that saw stop stuff is no good for food prep.

[Bill Orbine]

curious if anyone has measured the moisture content of a wiener.

A wet one??? :p

Copied and paste from a google search: Water: According to the same USDA guidelines — which, fun fact, also apply to bologna — hot dogs can contain no more than 10 percent water. So rest assured you’re getting at least 90 percent of the, uh, good stuff?

Does this help?

[Rod Sheridan]

I just drooled all over my keyboard at the Hammer site checking out their table saws. They are cheaper and better IMO compared to SS. I always thought I would get a SS but now I'm not so sure....

I went from a General 650 cabinet saw to the Hammer B3 Winner with the 49" crosscut capacity and would never go back to a cabinet saw now............Rod.

[Keith Hankins]

As a Sawstop owner, user, and long time wood shop professional, I must say this statement doesn't pass the sniff test. No shop is using lumber so wet that it would activate the brake.
Lumber is any shops biggest expense next to labor, no one is storing their material out in the rain.

As someone who works in manufacturing, If it is true that workers in businesses are disabling safety devices, several things are obvious.
IMO
1) You have employees that should be fired. That's just crazy to disable safety equipment.
2) If it's not being caught and corrected, the management is lacking and should be replaced.
3) If the owners are ok with the practice, people should not be wanting to work there.
4) Storing Lumber outside in the rain ? Really, don't think the business will survive long.

If he put the SS in just to get the insurance break, he/she is unethical. First injury they will get ripped a new one as they should be.

The thread is supposed to be about the new slider attachment.

[Paul Wunder]

According to Jessem Tools, they are re-designing their original Mast R Slide 7500 (sliding table attachment for table saws) and will re-introduce late this year. They state that it will be designed to work with all table saws (unlike the Sawstop which they say is limited in its applicability). Their last pricing was around $550 vs. Sawstop'a $999.

[Peter Kelly]

JessEm has been saying that for years now...

[James Zhu]

Jack is comparing his PK as a short stroke to the SS slider. He likely has less $$ in the PK than what the SS would cost. My Whitney 77 slider with lots of extra miter gauges and stops was < $1500 rehabbed. Not to turn this into another new vs old but the comparison is not really pickup vs semi. My point is there should be a market for a true short stroke slider, SS or MM or anyone who will build one. Dave

A few days ago, I emailed SawStop asking if they are working on a true Euro style sliding table saw. Just got the response, no, they do not have plan for a true sliding table saw.

[Keith Hankins]

That's purdy.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll give you $1000 for it, you could double your money!!

[jack forsberg]

I'll give you $1000 for it, you could double your money!!

but it will cut your finger off:rolleyes:

[Dave Anthony]

I'll take my chances :) Tell you what, I'll throw in a Sawstop w/a Jessem sliding table. Do we have a deal?

[Greg Portland]

Several years ago, I thought it would be the cat's meow to add a sliding table to my Uni-saw. Well I bought one -- can not recall if it was either the "mid-sized" Exaktor or an Excaliber. Worked it or awhile, but I became frustrated with the amount of floor space it consumed and the time it took to remove/replace the fence. Even though there was a 90 degree stop for the fence, I never trusted it -- the stop just did not seem to be repeatable. Finally I took it off and it is still "in storage" for the Uni-saw's next owner.I had the same experience except I sold the slider attachment. A circular saw with a good blade + guide now handles all my large sheet good sawing. $1k would could buy you a Festool circular saw + 118" track.

[Roger Feeley]

Erik, Isn't it kind of crazy to pay for the safety system and then not use it? I would think that the owners either bought the saw for insurance reasons or they thought they wanted the safety systems. In the former case, wouldn't the insurance company find out the first time there was an injury? In the latter, wouldn't they realize that the safety system wouldn't work with wet wood? They might as well take advantage of all those Unisaws and PM66s out there.


Not to jack this thread too much but I just remembered an interesting remark from one of our territory reps at the IWF show. He told me that almost every shop he goes into that has one of these, they have deactivated the cartridge-device and just run it like a regular cabinet saw. A lot of shops store their lumber outside, it gets wet, they go to cut it and "pow!". In a shop, time is money and they don't want to be fiddling with changing the cartridges or having it go off all the time. I thought that was interesting.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Cary Falk]

I think I will stay with my JessEm.

[Mark Carlson]

Me too. Cant get past those support legs. Yuck. I'd be interested in the Jessem II if it ever happens.


I think I will stay with my JessEm.

[Erik Loza]

Erik, Isn't it kind of crazy to pay for the safety system and then not use it?..

Roger, I agree with you 100% in principle but in the real world, you see it all. Folks who leave the guards off their jointers, shops that take out the riving knife (and guard that is attached to it...), guys working without eye or ear protection, empty beer cans sitting around the machines.

At the IWF show last week, we had a 10' slider set up in the booth and a Latin American dealer apparently wanted to "demo it" for some of his customers by showing how it could be used to cut stacked panels. We had no dust collection set up on the machine; it was just there for static demo, not actual cutting. My colleague and I had were chatting with our backs turned to the machine when we hear the saw fire up and start cutting. We turn around just in time to get covered in sawdust and see this gentleman cutting a stack of three or four 1'x1' melamine squares by using using both the rip and crosscut fence to put pressure on this stack as it went through the blade. That is an EXTREMELY dangerous cut and though (thankfully) nothing happened, it could have sent melamine squares flying everywhere. Point being that you can make this or that machine as safe as possible but in the real world, "foolish" often transcends better wisdom.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Peter Kelly]

Jesus that makes me wince. Why exactly was there power pulled to that saw in the first place? I'm amazed that show management even allows machines to be live during show hours...

[Erik Loza]

Jesus that makes me wince. Why exactly was there power pulled to that saw in the first place? I'm amazed that show management even allows machines to be live during show hours...

Most stuff has power at IWF, interestingly. We sometimes do that in order to show how the scoring blade operates or that type of thing but guys don't typically just walk over and start cutting. We turned off the main switch after that!

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

There is so much power consumed there it is staggering. Just the dust collection alone at many booths would astound. Miles of pipes and hundreds of bags if you counted them all. Must have been 50 cnc machines running. Dave

[Frank Drew]

I went from a General 650 cabinet saw to the Hammer B3 Winner with the 49" crosscut capacity and would never go back to a cabinet saw now............Rod.

In my case it was from a Powermatic 70(?) to an Ulmia 1711 with a 52" crosscut, but otherwise ditto about never going back to a non-slider.