Please help me move into Festool

[Matt Lau]

Dear Creekers,

Please help me spend my money.
I have a rather unique set of needs, and I'm thinking of going festool (or festool-like).

Safety is important: I absolutely can't afford to injure my hands. I'm a dentist.
Dust control is important: I'm in an apartment in SF, but can work on the veranda.
Portability is important: if my landlord decides to sell, I'd like to fit things in my Corolla.
Money is tight: While I'm a dentist, most of my money goes to continued education or necessary expenses (insurance, license, etc). I also spend a significant time serving the under served/under-insured through the county--my paycheck is definitely not big.
I mainly build guitars, smaller things, but I'd like to make a built in closet for my mom and my sister.


Currently, I'm compiling a list of tools to save up and buy.
Could you recommend a set of tools?

My current tool set:

Ryobi coded hand drill. Eggbeater drill. Ryobi drill bits, reamer. Yankee brace 2100
Japanese hand saws. Greenlee hacksaw
Japanese chisels (full set)
Japanese hand planes, Veritas Low angle jack, Veritas #3 smoother.
Milled Straight edges. Starret square. Mitotoyo Calipers. Kebiki.
Three normal cam clamps; 6 small "luthier's" cam clamps
A bunch of NOS Nicholsen files
Some crappy screwdrivers. A cheap happer. A glen-drake Tite hammer #4.
Bosch Colt. Dremel. Milwakee router 1.5 router. Fein vacuum.
Blum workbench. holdfasts. benchdogs. homemade bench puppies
Rockwell bandsaw. Bosch jigsaw


Interim/transitional tools (next 2 years):

Makita tracksaw (instead of ts55)
pocket hole jig
Sound baffle cabinet for Fein vac (better hose storage, sound dampening, can stack stuff on top)


Future tool set:

Festool CT26
Bosch cordless drill/driver DDS181 (instead of t18)
homemade MFTC or Paulk table (MFT)
Ceros sander
Carvex
dw611 router (instead of OP1100)
Domino


I'd like to hear your suggestions.
Nonfestool things would be nice too (more clamps? drill press?)

[Chris Padilla]

"Money tight" and "Festool" aren't the best of partners but they design their tools with dust collection in mind and they do excel at it!

The Kreg pocket hole jig is very nice and wonderful for quickly putting basic boxes together.

It sounds like you are on right track with your tools!

[Bill McNiel]

Plus 1 on Festool and tight money not being compatable concepts. With that said, here are my thoughts;
Seems like your existing tools are a solid start (except the junk screw drivers).

Kreig Jig will simplify many projects.

Look at the Bosch 12v combo set. I am really pleased with it and don't really see the need for you to get 18V. Plus, it is really nice to have both toys and not have to switch bits.

Future tools - Stick with Festool ($ at the start but they are fantastic, will last forever and the dust collection is amazing).
Look at the Midi vs CT26, smaller, same suction, less $.
Domino 500
OF 1400 router
Try the Festool sanders at a store and choose from there. RO 125 may serve your needs well.

Hope this helps as opposed to confuses.

[Mike Henderson]

The problem with Festool, like many tools that fall into that category, is that they will come out with new (improved) versions of their products - which will tempt you to upgrade:). Sort of like smart phones. We upgrade long before our old one breaks.

That said, the Domino is a very good tool.

For many of the other Festool tools, you can find other brands which will do an excellent job at much lower cost. The Festool may be somewhat better, but will cost a whole lot more. Like many people, I started with very basic tools and was able to produce decent projects. As your skills improve, you may decide to purchase higher cost tools (seems that chisels and sharpening equipment falls into that category). I'd recommend going slowly.

Mike

[Michael Kellough]

Get a Festool Midi vac instead of the CT26. You'll save money and space and the Midi is much more portable.

[Victor Robinson]

Why do you need a Festool vac if you already have a Fein it seems?

[Clint Baxter]

Why do you need a Festool vac if you already have a Fein it seems?
My question as well. I have three Fein vacs and a CT26. The main advantage of the CT26 is the ride along storage on top. It came standard with the HEPA, but Fein has HEPA available as well. Fein saves you from buying bags as well.

Clint.

[William C Rogers]

I can only comment on the Ceros sander. Stay with that instead of a Festool sander as it is easier to use and has much better dust control IMO.

[Matt Meiser]

Since you want a portable shop, I'd look at the TS55 again. As a track saw and rail, the Makita is stiff competition, but if you want to expand to the MFT later, the Makita is a dead-end road.

[RDave Evans]

Since you want a portable shop, I'd look at the TS55 again. As a track saw and rail, the Makita is stiff competition, but if you want to expand to the MFT later, the Makita is a dead-end road.

Great advice. The thing about Festool is buying into the system because it all fits together. Get a rail with holes with the TS55 and that will work with some very expensive accessories for their routers. The festool rail also works with the routers for straight cuts along longer distances. The big advantage of festool comes when you jump into the green pond with both feet.

[Prashun Patel]

You sound like a candidate for more hand tools if most of your work is smaller and intricate and you live in an apartment. This will allow you to work at all hours.

If the built-in is a one-off project, then the home center, a simple circular saw, a shop-made cutting guide, and a drill pin jig can make you most of a closet built in.

The Domino is an amazingly versatile tool, and worth every penny IMHO. However, if money is tight, then a good substitute is a Dowelmax or Jessem Dowel jig. All three of these are HUGE time savers (if time is also at a premium for you).

[Matt Lau]

I have a rather weird (but good) situation.

Most of the time, I live in a cozy in-law-unit in SF.
I moved here because I wanted to be closer to my patients (should the need arise).
The downside is that I have to be careful about noise, messiness, and stuff has to be moved out of the way when done.

However, I have a private workshop near my parent's place.
I have the 14" bandsaw, big router, and an old Rockwell 9" tablesaw that scares me.
It's also where I store most of my wood.

I like to look at value, over cost.
I learned early on (with Grizzly planes vs Veritas) that money saved on a crappy tool, is money wasted.
However, I also don't want to go spend $$$ on a tool that I won't use (like the dewalt scrollsaw that I bought years ago).
I guess that's what I mean about money being tight?

While money is tight--with discipline, I'll slowly build up the toolset.
I can envision a dual toolset (as most luthiers do).

Heavy iron: Dimensioning, resawing, rough thicknessing. Here's where I'll stick my Fein (with a dust deputy).
Frankly, aside from drill press (which I'll have to buy), bandsaw (my fave power tool) and thickness sander (which I'll need to build--I may never build one, since I love my planes)--I really don't like power tools. I find routers to be loud, messy and scary (but very useful). My skillsaw gets the job done, but makes an awful mess with dubious accuracy. The tablesaw has power to spare, but can end my career with one slip.

Eventually, I can picture selling everything (except the bandsaw, and maybe a bench drill press) if I get married and have kids.
Too many dangerous things to hurt kids. I can buy the wood pre-thicknessed (albeit at a hefty cost)

Portable toolset: minimal noise/dust, onsite installation (honey-do favors for mom), flexibility.
Here's where I see the Festool coming in. No risk of cutting off fingers (unless I'm really stupid).
Flexibility to do almost everything that needs a full sized shop. Fits in well with my modular, portable philosophy.
Plus, I can make any guitar jig in minutes, instead of hours, using higher quality sheet goods than the big box stores.

Having the Festool Vac connect to everything else is very nice, as is better chord storage and hose storage (my biggest gripe with Fein).
It's probably more to do with the really cool videos that I keep seeing (Paulk workbench, MFTC).
Of course, I may make an enclosure that clicks to the systainers and make a "poor man's festool vac" that is much quieter, a little smaller, and much cheaper.

-Matt


ps. RDave, Thanks for the tips, I guess that I'll be saving for the TS system when my birthday comes around.
I was thinking of bypassing the excellent Festool Routers for the Dewalt 611 plunge trim router, as it's much smaller and less expensive (with great dust control).
Would you still recommend getting into the Festool rails?

I've looked at the vast array of well designed Festool accessories, and I honestly think that I can make most of them (or improve on some, or buy some cheaper alternatives).
When I was a broke dental student, I bought some fancy specialized stuff from Stewmac before I learned the value of better tools to make tools.
Of course, my time is getting much more expensive...

pps. Prashun, You are speaking to the choir. I have been following a number of your posts. I'm also a huge fan of Wilbur Pan's blog.
I've never used a joinery jig before, as it felt like cheating. However, it takes me too long to make a joint that I'm happy with.

I'm really hoping for something that is cheap over the lifetime of the tool.
For example, $186 was a lot of money when I bought a blemished LV LA Jack...but it's dead accurate, a pleasure to use, and has replaced several planes (rough thicknessing, fine finish, shooting, jointing soundboards) quite well. Mine was a tremendous value...at 5x the cost of a BORG stanley or ebay special (that may take days for me to fix).

[Greg R Bradley]

Some input from someone who is willing to buy Festool items but doesn't think they are automatically worth their price.

I first bought a Festool Tracksaw 25 years ago, then later bought a Makita, then "upgraded" to a Festool TS55, and recently added another Makita. The Makita is 95% of a Festool TS55 that can be 60% the cost if bought on sale. It is really close to the Festool if you are using it for sheet goods and the riving knife on the Festool is irrelevant.

A Fein Vac is superior to Festool Vacs in some ways and inferior in others. They are quieter and much cheaper if bought on sale but don't store nearly as efficiently. The Festool systainers mount on top, which helps the storage efficiency. I have a Festool Midi with systainers mounted on top and strapped into the engine room of a yacht where space is at a premium. I have 3 Fein Vacs used in shops where space is not so valuable.

I have Bosch 1590 and 1591 jigsaws as well as a Festool Trion and the Bosch is easily the equal of the Festool for half the price as long as you don't factor the systainer into the "value" of the Festool Jigsaw. Don't forget that Bosch makes a bunch of different Jigsaws and their mid range units are just OK, while their low end units are junk.

If you really want a Midi instead of a C26, let me know because I have a virtually new Midi and want the C26 instead. Unless you are hauling it up ladders or are much older than my 60 years, I can't see the value of the Midi.

[mreza Salav]

I have a fair number of Festool products and have used some of their other tools that I don't have (returned a few as well). Some of their tools are unique and excellent (like the Domino); they simply are huge time savers. Some of their tools are just about as good as the next good brand and are IMO overpriced. So do your research at what type of work you do and what you really need.

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for the tips.

It looks like the festool tracks are better compatible with other festool routers and third party adapters (like for the dewalt) than the makita rails.

I'd really like to know which tools are unique and excellent, and which ones are overpriced.

Here's my understanding (from lurking on FOG and the contractortalk forum):

domino- unique and special niche.
tracksaw- quite good. Makita is good too
Festool vac- better storage than fein, but louder, bigger, more expensive
router- mixed. I'm eying the DW611 due to it's smaller size (I'd mainly use it for inlay, bridge slotting). The op1100 is really nice too.
Jigsaw- sort of a waste of money--go bosch (I have a bosch 1580--used it once--eats 2" of plywood like nobody's business. needs new bearings, poor dust control options)
Planex- no clue. Some contractors swear by it for weird situations like thicknessing a rafter--while in the roof.
drill--consensus seems to say it's a great saw, but could be bought for 1/4 the price elsewhere. I'm looking at Bosch or Milwaukee.

That it?

Regarding the Festool MIDI, I'd have to factor in shipping, and whether I can justify it.
At earliest, I'd have to wait until October (my birthday) or December.
Likely, I'll try to make an enclosure for my Fein and make do.

I'm typing this from a hotel room in Chicago.
The International Congress of Oral Implantology is full of quirky people like myself, and it's pretty great.
It's a lot of $$$, but I think that I'll be a better dentist when I return.

-Matt

[Mike Cutler]

Matt

I have the following Festool products; TS-75, OF2200, OF1400 and the associated guide rail adapters.

The "gateway" product from Festool is their track saw. I have the TS-75 only because I honestly do need the extra depth of cut. The TS-55 would have been perfect if I didn't live in a 100 year old house, and tend to start projects with 2" + thick boards. From the track saw most folks branch out and acquire the tools in their lineup that suit their individual need and type of wood working.

Next in my opinion is their routers. I've used a lot of different routers in my life and the Festool's, I have the OF2200 and 1400, are simply the smoothest, most ergonomically controllable routers I've used. The OF 2200 can literally be used with one hand.

The Domino isn't really a unique or special niche tool. Depending on what other tools and jigs someone has, or rather doesn't have, it could be a foundation tool for a small home shop. Loose tenon joinery has been around for multiple centuries and the Domino just facilitates an expedient method to effect it.

You may be selling their jigsaws short. Get a 2" thick billet of a tropical hardwood and put their jig saw to the test roughing out a neck and you might change your mind. I have a Milwuakee jigsaw and the Festool is by leaps and bounds a better tool. The Carvex will be my next Festool product.

The Planex is however a little unique. If you have a lot to sheet rocking to do, or redo, it would be very nice, if it works as advertised. I think though that you really mean a power planer though and not the Planex.

You're in a pretty good situation if you're "making do" with a Fein Vac. I have the Fein Turbo II and I see no reason to get a Festool vac myself.

Let your work dictate your needs and so far, from your posts, It seems as if you really just need a track saw, Festool or not, to do the initial breakdown of material and then final cut to size.

PS.

Get a sliding table saw someday Doc'. The best engineered insurance for your hands, is to never have the ability to get them near a blade.

[peter gagliardi]

I'd skip the Ceros sander, and get the Festool sander instead. I have used my Rotex daily in a medium production shop for the last 12 or so years. I just had my first repair! Brushes wore out.

[howard s hanger]

+1 on the slider. Love my Hammer. I never get close to the blade. I would also look at getting either a CSX or t15 drill. I have both and I use them all the time. I have collected quite a bit of Festool products over the last five years and only regretted a couple of purchases. I also lived in the City for a few years so I'm familiar with just how tight living space is there. Big iron is great if you have the room but almost everything can be done with Festool. However, unless you can find your lumber jointed and surfaced, having a J/P is essential for square stock. Accuracy is dependent on this so if have the room somewhere, this would be a priority IMO. I also have the Hammer A3-31 with the silent power head and it's really quiet. Hand planes are fun but trying to flatten a board with one can be very time consuming and tiring. One last thing. Have as much respect for your hand tools as your power versions. One slip and your practice is toast. I sliced my thumb wide open a few years ago with a chisel. A dentist with one working hand isn't much of a dentist so be careful! And get your DI insurance if you haven't already done so. It can be a lifesaver.

[Andy Pratt]

I only own one festool tool but I feel like they are the least expensive brand in the long run. I work my rotex 150 to the bone, I mean really heat it up, almost weekly. Every time I've done that with the dewalt router it is cooked. By this point, it would have been less expensive to buy the festool router. You pay 3x up front but it never wears out. In the meantime, you get to use a great tool that doesn't frustrate you. Given your specified considerations I would either stick with hand tools or go festool gradually as you can accumulate money for it. They have the niche as far as dust collection/portability so they are right up your alley.

They work fine with the fein vac (that's what I have) you just have to drill a few holes in the line if you're sanding so that you don't have too much suction.

[John Sanford]

On the cordless drill, go brushless, either Milwaukee M12 Fuel or Bosch 12v brushless. As previously suggested, get the combo kit with a drill/driver and IMPACT driver. The Festool cordless drills are nice, but the difference isn't enough to justify the cost differential.

Now, I don't really know what all goes into guitar building, but it seems to me that your tool intentions are focused a lot more on larger work than on smaller, whereas your given craft intentions are aimed at smaller work. If I were going to be doing a lot of small work, I'd take a serious look at adding a quality scrollsaw to the arsenal. The DeWalt scrollsaw or better.

[William C Rogers]

Festool makes a very good sander. I was able to use a 125 and a Ceros before I bought a sander. IMO Ceros has these advantages over the Festool, it is much lighter and one handed control, it has better dust control probably due to the Abranet paper and more holes, and seems quieter. What sold me was the weight and control of the Ceros vs the Festool. Hopefully you can try both sanders before you purchase and determine which sander is best for you.

Hope pe the earthquake today didn't affect you much.

[kent borcherding]

The Mafell saws and equipment is top of the line IMHO. www.mafell.com Sold in the US by Timber work tools. Well worth the extra $$$ . quality , workmanship . Long lasting , plain great tools. Your grand children will be able to use them , when they reach woodworking age - Mafell is that well made.

not trying to start a Festool - Mafell debate just offering my 2 cents worth or 1 1/2 cents after taxes.

Whatever you decide to buy enjoy it because woodworking is sure a great trade or hobby.

[Prashun Patel]

I am coming back to this thread because I am in the middle of a project using my Domino and am reminded of the genius of this device.

The Domino is accurate and the fence and depth and cutter settings make this very versatile.

However, what truly sets this tool apart from its peers is the variable width setting of the cutter. It is hard to appreciate how wonderful this is until you go to use it.
You can drill one side of the mortise to fit the tenon tightly, then - with a flip of a switch - cut the other side just a tad wider. This side-side 'slop' results in negligible loss of strength, but allows you to maneuver the joint perfectly before the glue sets. Thus, it eliminates the need to be absolutely perfect when laying out both sides of the joint and when lining up the domino to cut the slot. There are plenty of tools that will cut a joint accurately, but the genius of this tool is that it has sped up the layout process.

Many users report the same thing that I do: you can find ways to use this that you did not imagine beforehand. I use mine for breadboard ends and panel glue ups all the time.

I wonder if the other tools in Festool's catalog are as innovative vs. their peers as this joinery tool is.

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

I only own one festool tool but I feel like they are the least expensive brand in the long run......

Totally agree.

I always go by TOC (Total Cost of Ownership) and often find that buying an expensive item works out the cheapest on yearly basis. Most look only at purchase price and forget maintenance costs and life expectancy (replacement cost). Also remember that at one stage you may want to dispose of it because of non-use or upgrading and then quality tools will sell whereas cheap stuff you cannot give away.

[Peter Quinn]

It's hard for me to make many serious recommendations to you without knowing more about what you want to build and how. You build guitars, I play guitars. And work wood for a living. If I lost a finger it could cost me my livelihood, and equally upsetting to me would interfere with my guitar playing. So safety is critical to us all, and the nut that holds the tool to the wood must always be screwed on straight, that's where safety starts. I've seen guys get a 2 month vacation from improper use of a chisel!

I think your original tool list would allow you to build a great many things. Obviously luthiery had its own tool set, much of which may be small and portable. If you read about Benedettos tool set when he started building masterful archtops you realize it's the man not the tools.

My question is how much control over dimensioning solid stock must you have. Are you using prepared neck blanks or must you start with rough lumber? Acoustics or electrics? Do you need to be able to resaw book matched wedges for tops, or do you buy these prepared. Built ins....framed or frameless? If framed, how will you prepare the stock? Are there any community club based wood shop options in SF that will rent shop time? How are you with a computer and cad? You could use the thermwood program cabinet works which is free, design your casework, have the plywood Cnc milled by a regional network shop....you do the assembly, they machine the plywood....who really enjoys lugging plywood? Then you barely need a track saw.

On sanders....get the ceros. Makes the best festool sander feel like a brick. The rotex is great for taking 1/4" off a chair seat! The ceros is a finishing tool.

[Prashun Patel]

This thread is a year old. Great advice, just know OP probably made decisions already...

[Allan Speers]

I'd really like to know which tools are unique and excellent, and which ones are overpriced.


None of them are overpriced. - However, many of them primarily benefit contractors & production shops. Also as you mentioned, some have the benefit of working together as a system. What you really need to know, is which of them are outstanding in their own right, in a way that will benefit a hobbyist woodworker. That's a very different question.

If it weren't for that "limited budget" thing, I would recommend first getting a CT26 (or 36) because these are lovely shop vacs. Quiet, reasonably powerful, and very well made ergonomically. However, since you have to pinch pennies, you can get by just fine with a Ridgid shop vac and some extra ear plugs.

My most indispensible festool tool is the RO 90 DX sander. I use it on a daily basis. The dust collection is superb, and you can use it for hours without your hand getting numb.

I prefer the Eurekazone track system to the Festool, though Festool's TS75 is fabulous. I will probably eventually put a TS75 on my Eurekazone track ! - But you can't afford a deluxe track system, so I recommend getting something inexpensive, like the Grizzly.

I do think having SOME kind of tracksaw is a very good idea. You then can use a smaller table saw, which also means a smaller, less expensive fence. Of course, if you primarily build guitars, then a tracksaw is somewhat useless. I would expect you to be looking at planers and badsaws.

[Matthew Hills]

This thread is a year old. Great advice, just know OP probably made decisions already...

As they say--"no pics; didn't happen"

[Albert Lee]

Hi Matt
If you want to minimise the possibility of injuring yourself, and you want a tool that will last till the sun runs out of its fuel, the best way is to get a Omga pneumatic saw, ... but they are not cheap, a standard unit without pneumatic control is about 3500 USD. They are 100% handsfree though. you only use your hand when you place the timber on the saw.

here is a link for your info
https://www.omgainc.com/productfamily_detail.php?cid=2&sub_id=0&pid=11

316532

If you are interested to see how the pneumatic saw works, search Omga AL129 on youtube. First video is my saw lol.

[Allan Speers]

The Mafell saws and equipment is top of the line IMHO. www.mafell.com (http://www.mafell.com) Sold in the US by Timber work tools. Well worth the extra $$$ . quality , workmanship . Long lasting , plain great tools. Your grand children will be able to use them , when they reach woodworking age - Mafell is that well made.....


I agree, without having actually used a Mafell. The Mafell KSP85Ec is the dream saw for my EZ system. - But $1500 is a lotta' cake, and you still "only" get a 1400 watt motor. Plus, if you're in the USA it's not easy to find 9-1/16" blades.

Have you used one of these? I'm curious how tight the arbor is, and how accurate the entire saw is. I assume it's terrific, but being a CS, you never know.
--------------

I wish Festool (or anyone) would come up with a high-precision, 10-1/2" circular saw that pulls 20a. This would of course be a dedicated track CS )or run off a portable generator) but it would really transform things for guys like me, who now use a tracksaw + bandsaw, to completely replace a tablesaw. Well, one can dream .....

[Matt Lau]

Not to revive a dead thread, but I just wanted to update everyone.

1. I've been living under a rock for most of 2015 and 2016.
I bought a dead dental practice in my hometown, and have spent much time and money reviving it.
The patients are super happy, but I've been super drained working crazy, crazy hours.
I didn't know this thread was still alive until 2 hours ago!

2. I've moved back in with my folks to save money.
My budget is much bigger, but most of it is focused on stuff for the practice.

3. Thank you for all your great advice!


In terms of what I've decided:
1. Vac-- used Nilfisk Attix 8 AS/E--same features as a Mirka vac, but much cheaper; I'm sticking a HEPA filter on it, and prefilter bags.
2. Sander-- Mirka Deros 6"-- bought new at a discount, will be used to refinish some cabinets at the office
3. Kreg Jig---will be my next purchase
4. Tracksaw---Makita with festool track will be purchase after that. I want to make a simple locker for the staff to hold their purses.
5. Planer---DW735---I have access to a good lumberyard, but the milled stuff that I get is pretty sad.
Will need to get a jointer too. I'm mostly a neander, but planing several hundred feet of wood with my nonexistent free time makes me sad.
6. Homemade thickness sander--will be in much use as a luthier. Thinking of going semi-pro, or at least serious amateur.
7. Router-- I like the ergonomics of the 1100, but don't use a router much.
8. Domino-- on my wish list! I have a thing for old fashioned joinery though. I can see this being very useful for face frames on cabinets.

My next few projects will be custom cabinetry for my new (to me) dental office.
A lot of stuff is very poorly organized imho, and it drives me nuts.
Simple cabinets, boxes, shelves--will be very useful.

[David Eisenhauer]

One comment to your item #8 - You can fab up very good, long lasting, nice looking face frames (either stain or paint grade) with pocket screws without coughing up the cost of a Domino. Understood that the Domino will be very effective for other items, but pocket screws will be able to help you turn out well made, professional looking face frames for your office cabinetry.

[rudy de haas]

umm?

My first thought on reading the thread header "
Please help me move into Festool (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?220841-Please-help-me-move-into-Festool/page3)


was that if this works for him, I could post my paypal id and ask people for cash too...:D

oh well, back to work

[Deb Clarkson]

What do you like about the Eurekazone system vs Festool?

[Jim Dwight]

While I agree there are more attachments for Festool track saws I didn't and don't think their track saw (or even their track) is necessary for a part-time hobbiest. I bought a DeWalt and am very happy with it. I built a Paulk inspired workbench with his crosscut jig. It is 3 feet by 7 feet so much bigger than a MFT. If I wanted a mobile workstation, I would either make another Paulk type or, probably, make the rolling one you can get the plans for on the FOG. Seems much better portability then the MFT. I made myself a parallel jig for the DeWalt but I like my track positioning jigs better.

The reviews I see on the Makita are good but you can get a router attachment for the DeWalt (my PC routers work as will many others (including DeWalt)), it has a little more power than the Festool, not sure about the Makita, it has a riving knife (a safety thing) and also a anti kickback wheel and I got it with a 102 and 59 inch track for under $600. That's not much more than half what a Festool would cost. Cost versus a Makita is probably a function of who has the best sale at the time you buy.

I think Festools could make sense if you make your living with your tools because making your own jigs costs you money. You don't need to do that with the Festool. If you need to move your tools all over, the systainers and setup with the vacuum so you can roll them makes a lot of sense. Most of my dust making is in or near my shop. Portability is not so important. Frequently used tools do not go back into the case. Festool advantages are not so important. At least that's the way I see it.