Breadboard Ends...

[Harold Burrell]

I am building a dining room table for some friends. It will be farm house style, blah blah blah...

I plan to have breadboard ends on it as in the attached picture. I understand that the peg holes on the tenons should be elongated, to account for the top expanding/contracting. My question is, shouldn't I also "elongate" the mortises???
294946

[Mike Henderson]

Yes, you need to leave room for expansion - the top will change size but the ends will stay the same length. But since you have it already done, I'd trim some off the side of the tenons rather than re-jig for the mortises. Even if you took 1/4" off the side of the tenon, the tenon will still be wide enough.

Mike

[Harold Burrell]

Yes, you need to leave room for expansion - the top will change size but the ends will stay the same length. But since you have it already done, I'd trim some off the side of the tenons rather than re-jig for the mortises. Even if you took 1/4" off the side of the tenon, the tenon will still be wide enough.

Mike

OK, thanks. One more question...Seeing as the dowel holes will be elongated in the tenons and that the mortises will be oversized, how can I keep the breadboard end from being "sloppy" or moveable? I mean, I don't want it to be something that can be moved side to side. Can I glue the middle tenon and not elongate that dowel hole?


BTW: This is not my work. This is a picture from the article I got the plans from. :o

[Mike Henderson]

You glue the center mortise and tenon. The outside mortise and tenons are not glued. The glued joint keeps things in place. This is also why there are usually an odd number of tenons.

Mike

[BTW, I do breadboard ends a bit different. I counterbore for a screw through the side of the breadboard at the location of each tenon (the screw goes into the tenon), except for the center mortise and tenon. The hole I drill through the breadboard is elongated (inside the counterbore) so it allows movement. Then, I plug the hole. The difference is whether you want things to show or not. The way I do it, most people do not notice the plugged holes - people look at the top and not the side. But it depends on the look you want.

I glue the center without a screw - so there's only perhaps two plugs in the breadboard.]

[glenn bradley]

Mike's got you covered. That is just what I do. For pieces that have a "front" I glue and snug fit the front and allow expansion/contraction to/from the front keeping a consistent "front" appearance throughout the year. For tables such as you show, I attach the middle and let the expansion/contraction move to/from the center.

[Harold Burrell]

Thanks! So I am thinking right (that certainly doesn't happen very often).

I want the pins to be seen. I think it fits the look I am after.

I had thought about doing the whole "sliding dovetail" thing, but that scares me a bit more. :eek:

[Harold Burrell]

For tables such as you show, I attach the middle and let the expansion/contraction move to/from the center.

The only other thing that concerns me is the thought of the top expanding/contracting to where the end is longer the right size.

You know...in the summer it will look like I made it too short...and in the winter, like it was too long.

[Mike Henderson]

The only other thing that concerns me is the thought of the top expanding/contracting to where the end is longer the right size.

You know...in the summer it will look like I made it too short...and in the winter, like it was too long.
I usually make the breadboard end a bit long to begin with - and this makes sense if you're doing it when things are dry. Then when the humidity increases and the top expands, things are lined up. If you look at most arts and crafts tables that include a breadboard end, the breadboard is longer than the table is wide.

Glenn made a good suggestion for things that need to stay lined up on one side (thanks for pointing that out, Glenn) - but a table is usually tied down in the center and expands both ways.

Mike

[Stan Calow]

October issue of Popular Woodworking has good article on BB ends. Shows exactly why sliding dovetails may not be best choice.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

Thanks Stan! Also, when I first made breadboard ends, the guy who taught me said: "They'll be perfect only two days out of the year."

[Harold Burrell]

October issue of Popular Woodworking has good article on BB ends. Shows exactly why sliding dovetails may not be best choice.


Thanks Stan! Also, when I first made breadboard ends, the guy who taught me said: "They'll be perfect only two days out of the year."

Oh, man...I don't get PW anymore.

Thanks for the tease. :(

[Jim Matthews]

My mentor has an alternative method for breadboard ends, also on Farm style tables.
The breadboard itself is made of two pieces, with each equal to the table top thickness.

The breadboard is complemented by a skirt that runs the length of the table, also
equal to the top thickness. It makes the top appear twice its actual thickness.

The hardwood "tenons" are just milled straight grained stock that is glued and screwed
to the underside of the table top.

The lower half of the breadboard is milled and excavated to make the mortises.
They have more clearance to the outside of the table, but fit the center "tenon" closely.

The center tenon is glued, the remaining tenons are drawbored (the through holes are offset).
The through holes in the outside "tenons" are elongated with a power drill, using the drill bit as a rasp.

Those holes are "wider" but not "longer" to confine seasonal movement to the sides, and keep the breadboards snug.

I'll be rebuilding my own dining table with this method, soon.

295095

[Pat Barry]

My mentor has an alternative method for breadboard ends, also on Farm style tables.
The breadboard itself is made of two pieces, with each equal to the table top thickness.

The breadboard is complemented by a skirt that runs the length of the table, also
equal to the top thickness. It makes the top appear twice its actual thickness.

The hardwood "tenons" are just milled straight grained stock that is glued and screwed
to the underside of the table top.

The lower half of the breadboard is milled and excavated to make the mortises.
They have more clearance to the outside of the table, but fit the center "tenon" closely.

The center tenon is glued, the remaining tenons are drawbored (the through holes are offset).
The through holes in the outside "tenons" are elongated with a power drill, using the drill bit as a rasp.

Those holes are "wider" but not "longer" to confine seasonal movement to the sides, and keep the breadboards snug.

I'll be rebuilding my own dining table with this method, soon.

295095? Jim, what do you see as the big advantage of this method? Is it the illusion of extra thickness?

[Jim Matthews]

I thought putting the tenons on, as a separate piece was clever.
In my first attempt to make the tenons on my dining table,
I had to cut one off, and refit a stub tenon.

This method makes the tenon an independent element -
if I blow one out, I can just fit another.

It's a good deal easier to mill and in install straight grain fillets
than make the tenons directly from the main boards.

Dan uses the double thickness end piece (breadboard) to build in stiffness
and make the mortises in a systematic way.

I intend to adapt this with a standard thickness top and breadboard
by laying the "tenons" in routed recesses, underneath.

It's not my favorite method, but it's quick and clever.
(Each tenon is applied individually, glued and screwed to the underside of the table.)

[Pat Barry]

This method makes the tenon an independent element -
if I blow one out, I can just fit another.

It's a good deal easier to mill and in install straight grain fillets
than make the tenons directly from the main boards.

(Each tenon is applied individually, glued and screwed to the underside of the table.)
Yes, you are right - this would make it much simpler and easier to manage. I missed that in the earlier posting was just thinking about the added thickness

[Kent A Bathurst]

The only other thing that concerns me is the thought of the top expanding/contracting to where the end is longer the right size.

You know...in the summer it will look like I made it too short...and in the winter, like it was too long.

Umm.........Harold, my man............

You have a problem with what humidity does to wood, eh?

You sure you are in the right forum? Steel don't move, dude............ Nor does MDF, carbon-fiber, cement,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Tree-based solid-sawn material does move. Yo cannot stop it. you can only plan for it.............

Actually a selling point - educate the clients, so that they can brag to their guests. That is what I did with a QSWO dining room breadboard-end table. Sucker moves 1/4"+. Actually pretty impressive.

[Jim Matthews]

Yes, you are right - this would make it much simpler and easier to manage. I missed that in the earlier posting was just thinking about the added thickness

I'm on the fence about that.

Dan is making Farm style tables, and the illusion of heft helps them sell.

I just make things that I will use.

If this really works, I hope to submit the tip to the woodworking mags.
Any windfall will go to the cost of cleaning up Dan's offcuts and sawdust gathered
in bags around the back of his shop.

Yankees can be cheap about paying dump fees.