Success with Cermark 6060

[Mike Audleman]

A big thank you to Wes of Johnson Plastics for the sample bottle of LM6060!

Here is my first completed mark with it. I did one test on a busted knife blade using a miniaturized version of Gary Hair (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?8760-Gary-Hair)'s Power Grid file from here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194670-Recommendations-for-setting-up-Cermark-work&p=2010048#post2010048). The best settings I ended up with were 30mm/s, 98p, .03mm LPI. 40 probably would have been ok but I wanted a little extra insurance. 50 had some washoff at the edges and wasn't a deep black. At 20 it seemed like it might be burning the cermark as it wasn't a nice clean patch like 30 was. 10 and down showed similar grain and roughness. So I settled at 40 for the best look and stepped it one lower for insurance.

Its a 9mm round (No powder or primer. What? You think I am stupid and put a live round in a laser? :eek:)
294930
(I know, my cell phone sux as a camera, DSLR battery was dead)

This is a die setup slug used to dial in the seating die between bullet/caliber changes on the reloading press. Its equivalent to your laser focus tool but for reloading for setting the depth of the bullet seating into the brass case. Its got the bullet weight, maker and the COAL for that round on the side. I have been using a sharpie but it wipes off over time. Now to see how the cermark on brass lasts :)

I couldn't use the rotary, the round is too small. So I used a 45 degree V block I cut ages ago for holding dowels for drilling on the drill press. I lined it with foil HVAC tape to prevent laser damage to the wood in case of an overshoot. Then I dropped a dowel in with a weight on it as a end stop so the head of the round (the end the firing pin hits) was in a uniform position for each etch/mark. Did two files, one for each line and rotated the case between etchings. Figured this was the easiest and least prone to errors way of doing this. The 38 special, 223, 30-06 and the 300 WinMag cases will be MUCH easier to work with as they are all way bigger and longer. 9 is a small round.

Seems I am better with the Cermark than the Rowmark :( Still gotta dial that in.

[Kev Williams]

Is the shell too short, or too little diameter for your rotary? - just curious-

[Mike Audleman]

Diameter.

My rotary looks like this:
294934

I don't think even 300 WinMag would work. It would drop through the bars. This attachment works well for glasses and such. Small round things like these, not so much.

What I want is a rotary that looks like this:
294936
Then diameter wouldn't be an issue. Its from another maker and type of laser. $250. Its too short for scopes (max 10"L). And its too low for pumpkins (max 4.7"D). But the kit would give me the basic pieces to have one made that was sufficient. I would need another motor. Mine are 3 wire. This appears to be 4. I would have to get a machine shop to make new vertical supports and longer rails. Cheapest Harbor Freight lathe is $500 that has most of the pieces. But again, I am modifying and paying a machine shop to make custom parts.

Unless yall know another source for the rotary attachment that is closer to what I want already.

[Gary Hair]

I don't think even 300 WinMag would work. It would drop through the bars. This attachment works well for glasses and such. Small round things like these, not so much.

You just need to get creative Mike! How about a couple of pieces of dowel with a hole drilled in each end - one end fits the primer end and the other would fit the bullet end. Make it a force fit and it should stay together fine. If that won't work then try a rubber band to hold it together. The other option would be to have an adapter made to convert your existing fixture to hold a chuck. You have the motor and gear, you just need a chuck, bearings and a gear and you should be all set. If you are doing small things like the 9mm then you would only need the chuck. You could also swap out your motor for the one in the picture, that may be the easiest solution of all.

[Mike Audleman]

I was planning on buying another motor like mine. As I said, I have a couple things I need a center axis rotating jig for. Ammo isn't the primary. I won't be marking that many of these, couple dozen at most. I only need one per bullet/caliber combo. Maybe two as I have two 223 rifles (AR and bolt).

I need to work out a jig to get a pumpkin (both real and Micheal's fake foam ones) for laser cutting. I need a tall riser to allow for the diameter. I also need wide to get the pumpkin in there from stem to base. That is the reason I was talking about needing a fabrication shop to make new parts for it. My thoughts were a couple wood disks with egg crate foam to compress against the pumpkin. And some method of attaching those to the chuck and idler pin to hold center.

This frame style I have is too short to be able to use my other idea. Two round plates larger than the dia of the pumpkin hooked together with rubber bands. Those could ride on rods like the ones in my frame but its not long enough to handle anything but the smallest pumpkin.

So I have two choices (unless another one pops in). Axial chuck style with tall risers for large diameter objects. It could handle smaller items too. Option two is build a longer roller type platform similar to what I have but longer. It could handle any diameter that that point. But its still not gonna work for small objects like pens should the opportunity arise. It would be cheaper though.

[Bill George]

If your in the market for a good lathe, keep checking your local Craigslist or garage sales. Garage sales where dad died and the kids just want the place cleaned out so they can sell the house. I picked up a old Sears Atlas 9 inch, with all the tooling for $150. The guy selling was just one of the kids and all he wanted was the Cash. Needless to say when I put it on eBay it went like hot cakes. The Harbor Freight lathes are functional but the old USA made ones are something to consider.

I have a really nice, but older Emco (made in Austria) Super 11. Very fast and very accurate, but I needed to do some minor repairs first, not a big deal. A couple new gears, a change of oil and its as good as new. Oh, it was three phase but I built a static/ rotary phase convertor.

[Mike Audleman]

Problem with that is most lathes are too large (the chuck and the spindle) to be able to mount to a small fixture inside a laser machine. Looked at the HF lathe and it was pretty hefty and it has a chuck on a tapered spindle. to get it on a NEMA motor ;)

[Vicki Rivrud]

295198
so what made you decide to go with the new water based 6060 instead of the 6000?
I just start doing brass casings myself on my Chinese laser using the 6000 with really great results so far.

[Mike Audleman]

295198
so what made you decide to go with the new water based 6060 instead of the 6000?
I just start doing brass casings myself on my Chinese laser using the 6000 with really great results so far.

223 or 308 case? Don't think its a 30-06 as that has a different neck to case length ratio. Without a scale could be almost anything from 50bmg to 17HMR :)

Wes from Johnson Plastics sent me a small sample of 6060. I am just now venturing into laser-land. I have no experience with either and I wasn't sure my laser would do it at all. Wes was kind enough to send me enough to play with and see if it fit my needs. They apparently do not carry 6000. They carry 6060 so thats what he sent me.

As a side note, have you compared the 6000 to 6060 for blackness and wear? What sorts of settings are you using to get that nice deep black?

For me, these are some one-off's for my reloading setup blanks. It never occurred to me that anyone else would want marked brass. I assume your casings are not for real use, I mean in a gun to be fired. I can't imagine cermark surviving an actual firing but, well that sounds like a nice range day :) Monogramed ammo. Heh. That'd get some jaws wagging at the range, specially if I showed up with my Barrett MRAD and the monogrammed ammo for it.

[Vicki Rivrud]

I haven't tried the 6060 water based yet. Still have lots of 6000 spray & 6038 paste.

Everything I've read says that when working with softer metal such as aluminum or brass, it needs more heat energy so more power and/or slower speed may be needed. Again, you have to always test to be sure.
Use a thin even coat just hiding the brass.

I have a 150w Chinese with a RECI tube - I have the PAD set permanently to only use 80% Power so I don't over burn the RECI.

So this may sound a little crazy - -

I use Lasercut and the software engrave settings are set for 90 speed & 85% power (remember that at 80% of 150w its actually being used at 120watts @ 85%)

This 50 cal casing was red hot when it finished and I had to let it cool before washing. I burned myself doing the first one.

Don't apply the Cermark too far in advance on either - I find that if I pre-coat too early then the brass hazes or seems to be stained, even after cleaning.

Yes they do use the casings at the range - I clear coat after the brass is dried. . . . I've gotten some crazy graphics for casings these days.

Vicki
295261

[Mike Null]

Mike

This chuck, which is for my Newing Hall machine might work for you. It's not cheap but it is incredibly versatile.

[Mike Audleman]

I haven't tried the 6060 water based yet. Still have lots of 6000 spray & 6038 paste.

Everything I've read says that when working with softer metal such as aluminum or brass, it needs more heat energy so more power and/or slower speed may be needed. Again, you have to always test to be sure.
Use a thin even coat just hiding the brass.

I have a 150w Chinese with a RECI tube - I have the PAD set permanently to only use 80% Power so I don't over burn the RECI.

So this may sound a little crazy - -

I use Lasercut and the software engrave settings are set for 90 speed & 85% power (remember that at 80% of 150w its actually being used at 120watts @ 85%)

This 50 cal casing was red hot when it finished and I had to let it cool before washing. I burned myself doing the first one.

Don't apply the Cermark too far in advance on either - I find that if I pre-coat too early then the brass hazes or seems to be stained, even after cleaning.

Yes they do use the casings at the range - I clear coat after the brass is dried. . . . I've gotten some crazy graphics for casings these days.

Vicki
295261

OMG! I love the gnome! I want one. Where did you get it?

BMG round. Ok, that explains why the print looks so fine and detailed on it. See, without scale it could have been any caliber ;) I just couldn't place the neck to body ratio in my mind. 458 SOCOM and 416 Barrett is the biggest trigger pull for me to date. And Barrett MRAD in 300 WinMag as well as a 1903A3 (30-06) are probably the two biggest rounds that I own, both of which are boring to shoot at anything less than 500yd.

Holy cow! You are hitting that with about 100w? Not sure what your max speed is so I don't know what its 90% of. I was hitting mine with 49w at 30mm/s. At any slower rate it looked like it was over burning it. I have some 30-06 cases with cracked necks I can use for patch tests and see if I can really go faster or not. The only metal test I did was on a chrome pocket knife (swisse army style giveaway from Woodworker's store) that the spine was broke on. From that I guessed at the brass power. Not a lot of room for a patch test on a 9mm :)

I was applying it diluted at 1:1. Too thick? And I didn't apply it until I was ready and allowed it about 10-15min to dry before lasing.


Mike

This chuck, which is for my Newing Hall machine might work for you. It's not cheap but it is incredibly versatile.

Thats kinda the type of chuck I want. The scope I want to engrave is this:
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-8-riflescopes/mark-8-3-5-25x56mm-m5b2-front-focal/
I will be putting that on my Barrett. The objective bell diameter (according to that page) is 2.7". Converters say thats 68.58mm. Can that chuck handle that? I don't and won't use the inside grip as there are fine threads for screw on filters and gripping the inside might bugger the threads. I can protect the outside with a layer of tape.

I also have this scope (shown on my Ruger 10/22 but currently mounted on my Barrett)

http://u1.ipernity.com/37/60/89/26586089.dd88474a.640.jpg?r2 (http://www.ipernity.com/doc/wolfie/26586089)
It has a slightly larger bell and its the sun-shade (extension on the front) that I want to engrave/mark.

And how does the chuck mount? I would have to adapt it to a shaft/pulley to be driven by the stepper via a timing belt.

An alternative I came up with is to cut acrylic or ply disks with a hole in the center thats the diameter of the scope tube (its where it mounts to the guns anyway). Then cut that in half forming two giant C's. The outer radius would have to be larger than the height of the adjustment turrets for them to clear the rollers. Then I could set the scope in the center and use tacks or hook eyes and rubber bands to hold the halves together with the scope in the center. The outside edge could sit on my existing rotary attachment. I would have to cut a set for each unique scope barrel diameter (1", 30mm and 35mm being the most common). This would be an inexpensive solution but would require some form of Y axis scaling I think. No clue where in the software I can do that. Might have to do that in Corel and then ship it to RDCAM for downloading.