Replacing Lateral Adjustment Lever

[Patrick Harper]

I recently acquired a very nice Type 11 No.7 from tablesawtom. The only problem with the plane was that the wheel was missing from the original lateral adjustment lever. He sent me a new lever and rivet. I was able to remove the old lever quite easily. However, I'm not quite sure how to go about installing the new rivet without damaging the frog. I know I need to carefully peen it.

The rivet he sent me is what I believe to be a 3# tinners rivet with a large flat head. Due to the large head, I can currently only install it from the rear. This is because the large head interferes with the lateral adjustment wheel if trying to install from the other side.

If installed from the rear, I can easily support the head of the rivet from behind, but the pin is still very close to the lateral adjustment wheel. I would need to use a nail set or punch to peen the pin. My problem is that I can't support the frog, hold the set, and peen the rivet at the same time.

Any ideas? Has anyone successfully done this before? Should I grind down or remove the head on the rivet? Wrong kind of rivet? etc

Patrick

[Tom Bussey]

The easiest way is to place the head of the rivet on a piece od steel, vise or somthing, hard even cement will do. If need be have someone else hold the frog and using a amall punch or even a nail set peen it over. Start by working areound theoutsideof therivet. All of the force will go through the head of the rivet and into the hard piece it is setting on. Take your time you do not have to peen it over in one hit. You will not hurt the frog because the iron should not take any of the blows force. If you are worried sent it back to me.

[Karl Andersson]

Hi Patrick,
If you don't have the helper tom mentioned, i just had to do similar on a Millers falls plane that had a factory-original large-head rivet that needed to be re-peined with a punch. To solve the "hold the frog and punch and back the rivet" here's what I did:
- take off the depth adjustment wheel
- Get a flat-head bolt with a shaft diameter a little larger than the depth adjustment stud - also get 6-10 washers that fit the bolt.
- wrap the depth ajustment stud threads in a layer of duct tape to protect from dings
- put the bolt with about 5 washers under its head in a machinist's vise and tighten the jaws enough to just hold the bolt shaft-not the washers. The bolt head should sit on the washers, which lie flat on the top of the jaws and bridge the opening. This is your rivet backer/ anvil
- put the frog on the vise face up and tilted so it rests on the back corners and the rivet rests on the "anvil", sliding the depth adjustment stud between the jaws.
adjust the height of the bolt head anvil with more or less washers

I hope that makes sense - it should help with your problem about how to hold things steady for peining, but I can't answer whether a different rivet would be better.
Karl

[Patrick Harper]

Tom,

Thanks for all of your help! You've truly been great.

Karl,

That's an excellent idea. I think I have a few lag bolts lying around that I could try this with.

[Karl Andersson]

Oh - forgot to mention, and you'll probably do it anyway, but when you put the frog on the vise, be sure to swing the depth adjustment yoke out of the way so the frog isn't resting on it. wouldn't want to snap it if yours is iron.

[Patrick Harper]

A few more questions.

1) The rivet looks a little long. Should I file it down first? If so, about how much should I leave?
2) The rivet is a little loose in the hole. Will peening tighten things up, or should I find a better rivet?
3) Is the head of the rivet meant to be left on or removed? The reason I ask is because my other frogs looked to have rivets with similar heads on both ends.

Thanks again. I figure this will be a good skill, because I've noticed several discounted planes on ebay that are missing items which require rivets.

[Winton Applegate]

It is kind of like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4AQK9I4oGI) but you will need to use heavier cutters or hack saw the excess off and hit it a bit harder. You can make your own setting tool.

I think I would just leave off the lever and tap the blade with a plane adjusting hammer. I have set tons of steel rivets like this copper one and if you buy real rivets or maybe Tom gave you one. They are pretty "malleable" (soft enough to be formed) and you can install this rivet without too much effort.

[Patrick Harper]

Winton, thanks for the video, but it wasn't really helpful as the rivet is completely different. The peening tool he uses is interesting. It seems like it would be helpful, but I'm not sure there's enough room between the wheel and the rivet head in this case.

[Karl Andersson]

The rivet should fit pretty snugly in the frog so it makes a good axle for the lever- being a little loose in the lever hole wouldn't be too bad, as peining would tend to tighten it up somewhat- but not too loose or you'll be tempted to really whack it to tighten it up, then the tip of the frog breaks off and Winton's suggestion to adjust the blade with a hammer becomes a great idea.

Not sure what you mean about leaving the head on or rivets with heads on both ends (without a picture), but you really don't want to have to pein both ends. The MF rivet I did recently had a really large head on one end - about twice the size of a Stanley-and just a peined flat disc about twice the diameter of the shaft on the other, so it isn't that big a deal unless it affects some clearance.

[Patrick Harper]

Thanks again. The head of the rivet is pretty big, but it really doesn't affect anything on the back. I might just try finding a rivet that's a little tighter.

How much of the head should stick past the face of the lateral adjuster? This one sticks out about 1/8th - 3/16th. I started try to peen it. I was able to get it to where the rivet held the lateral adjuster on, but there was still a lot of space between the adjuster and the frog and everything was very loose.

[Winton Applegate]

Oops
sorry
I was picturing something like this; see photo.

Brett, I hope it is OK I "Stole" your photo for this thread.

[Karl Andersson]

The original rivet on the Millers falls I did had a large, thick flat disk peined on the top of the rivet - looked like a small cheese-head screw without the slot. All the Stanleys i have look like the one Winton posted - very small rise, no thick peined head on top, with edges that "bevel" down to the lever. there is less clearance between the rivet and adjusting disk on Staleys than on some others, so that might be why the did it that way instead of having a more robust head (the shorter distance would make the adjustment finer).

I wouldn't leave much more than 1/16th on the rivet above the lateral lever, then pein. I'd use a round-nosed punch in the center to spread it a bit, then flatten it down.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

. . . I think I would just leave off the lever and tap the blade with a plane adjusting hammer. . . .

That was my first thought - I've never found the lateral adjustment nearly as precise as a few taps with a hammer.

[Daniel Rode]

I adjust all my plane irons with a small brass hammer rather than the lateral adjustment lever. It thought maybe I just didn't know how to work the lever properly. It's good to see that I'm not the only one who does it that way. I can be very precise with my tiny hammer.

The other thing I can't do is adjust the iron projection by sighting down the sole. I use a thin scrap that I run across each side and the center until I get the projection I want. Sighting it, I just can't tell when it's too far in or out.


That was my first thought - I've never found the lateral adjustment nearly as precise as a few taps with a hammer.

[Jim Koepke]

The other thing I can't do is adjust the iron projection by sighting down the sole.

+1 on that.

My eye sight just ain't what it used to be.

Feeling the shavings from each side gets me set up quicker.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I find setting projection by sight works well for me on a coarser set plane, particularly making sure the blade's centered, but on something like a smoother, it really only helps me get the projection even after initially setting the blade. Then I can back it off to where I want; I find nine times out of ten, the lateral adjustment is still where I want it when I do this, even though I wasn't able to use sight to set the final projection.

[Winton Applegate]

The other thing I can't do is adjust the iron projection by sighting down the sole. I use a thin scrap that I run across each side and the center until I get the projection I want. Sighting it, I just can't tell when it's too far in or out.


YUP
I am pretty relaxed about it though. FOR ME the best thing to do is to just push the plane down the plank and start wheelying the wheely. I watch the throat like a hawk and when I see the faintest wisp of a curl I tilt the blade to cut in the center and then start advancing the blade for the depth of cut I will take. I have given up an all the looking down the sole and scraps of wood etc.

I just plane with it. Also for a final few pass finish planing situation I might drag my fingers over the blade to feel where it is cutting or about to cut. Then do the push and adjust I mentioned above. That way I don't snag a corner on a finish blade that has no camber and only the corners of the blade relieved. I hope that made sense.

[Winton Applegate]

I find nine times out of ten, the lateral adjustment is still where I want it when I do this, even though I wasn't able to use sight to set the final projection.

I think you have hit a cord that reminds me why I don't advance the blade well out, tilt for parallel with the sole and then draw it back . . .
The reason I don't do that is one of my favorite planes, the LN bevel up jack, the blade adjuster is notorious for tilting the blade on me ONCE IN A WHILE when I advance or withdraw the blade depth.
I sure can not count on it anyway.
ONE REASON I AM ALL ABOUT THE VARITAS PLANES ; they have the Norris style adjuster. Way better.

So I plane and advance and tilt while pushing the plane down the plank. Even with the Varitas planes.