Planning really wide surfaces like a table top

[Judson Green]

So I'm making a kitchen table and the top is about 45" square, I've managed to do OK.... I think.

I glued and flattened the top progressively (three chunks), but still will need some flatten near its completion. A top this size I can reach to the center well enough, but got to wondering how would ya do a wider and longer table top?

[Brian Holcombe]

Judson, do you happen to have a long, precision ground straight edge?

[Daniel Rode]

If it's too big to reach across, I guess you have to climb on top :)

So I'm making a kitchen table and the top is about 45" square, I've managed to do OK.... I think.

I glued and flattened the top progressively (three chunks), but still will need some flatten near its completion. A top this size I can reach to the center well enough, but got to wondering how would ya do a wider and longer table top?

[David Weaver]

So I'm making a kitchen table and the top is about 45" square, I've managed to do OK.... I think.

I glued and flattened the top progressively (three chunks), but still will need some flatten near its completion. A top this size I can reach to the center well enough, but got to wondering how would ya do a wider and longer table top?

I would otherwise joint it from whatever side I could reach it, etc, and then I'd put it on the floor and finish plane it with through strokes.

[Judson Green]

Daniel and David

That's what I was asking about, the physicality of the task. I was thinking of the same thing, climbing on, but was wondering/hoping there might be a better way. Perhaps that plane rope and winch?:D

[Daniel Rode]

Careful, planing rope is only good for edge jointing. For face planing you need flexible twisted wire. I prefer brass 1/16" but 3/16" will work in pinch. A small dowel on at the end of the wire makes a nice handle to prevent cuts and abrasions. I've heard of people using copper electrical wire but it seems dangerous to me.

Daniel and David

That's what I was asking about, the physicality of the task. I was thinking of the same thing, climbing on, but was wondering/hoping there might be a better way. Perhaps that plane rope and winch?:D

[Prashun Patel]

For table tops that are too wide to reach from one side, I just plane from both sides.

For table tops that are too long to do in smooth strokes, I just go as far as I can reach.

The nice thing about table tops is that they don't have to be perfectly, globally, flat; they only need to LOOK that way, so doing it in sections and making sure each section is locally, approximately flat is good enough.

[Brian Holcombe]

That's sort of what I'm driving at, with the aide of a straight edge you can do 95% of it cutting to the halfway point of the table. After that, lay it on the floor.

[Zach Dillinger]

For table tops that are too wide to reach from one side, I just plane from both sides.

For table tops that are too long to do in smooth strokes, I just go as far as I can reach.

The nice thing about table tops is that they don't have to be perfectly, globally, flat; they only need to LOOK that way, so doing it in sections and making sure each section is locally, approximately flat is good enough.

+1 to this post. Do what you can, and just like about 99% of things in woodworking, if it looks right it is right.

[Judson Green]

Careful, planing rope is only good for edge jointing. For face planing you need flexible twisted wire. I prefer brass 1/16" but 3/16" will work in pinch. A small dowel on at the end of the wire makes a nice handle to prevent cuts and abrasions. I've heard of people using copper electrical wire but it seems dangerous to me.


Well of course that makes perfect sense, why didn't I think of that.

[Judson Green]

Okely dokely, thanks guys!

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I would probably get as much as I could by what ever means to make it look good, and, I might use something like the Festool half sheet sander (RS2E). It is supposed to excel at this sort of thing.

[Steve Friedman]

I know this isn't the right forum, but what about a router sled?

I can't find it now, but I recall seeing a video of two Japanese woodworkers working together with a plane - one pulling the other pushing. That might work. Or, just find a friend with longer arms. Better yet, find a friend with a flat belt sander.

I agree with Prashun as well. Not only doesn't it have to be perfectly flat, but even if you managed to flatten it, the top is going to move over time anyway.

Steve

[Daniel Rode]

Honestly, a router or a belt sander would be harder. Reaching the middle with a router is no easier and a jig must be created. Moreover, a router wont create a finished surface, so sanding or planing will be required after.

I know this isn't the right forum, but what about a router sled?

I can't find it now, but I recall seeing a video of two Japanese woodworkers working together with a plane - one pulling the other pushing. That might work. Or, just find a friend with longer arms. Better yet, find a friend with a flat belt sander.

I agree with Prashun as well. Not only doesn't it have to be perfectly flat, but even if you managed to flatten it, the top is going to move over time anyway.

Steve

[Augusto Orosco]

If Ethan Hunt were a woodworker, for him this would be non issue... (well, as long as he could solve the issue of how to push the plane instead of the plane pushing him... but if you can joint edges with a rope and a super sharp plane, leverage is not needed)
http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/dropping-in-mission-impossible.jpg

[Judson Green]

A belt sander, in my hands, would work fantasticly, but I'm trying hard not to revert to my former electronic woodworker.

[Judson Green]

Not that I'm anything like Ethan Hunt, but when I had to wet polish concrete counters as part of my business, I made a sling that I could lean in to (think breast plate with ropes & bungees attached) that would suspended me above the work. It would also move on a trolley the length of my 4×8' tub. It made sucky work just a little less sucky.

[Jim Matthews]

Nakashima used a small powered planer to go at the high spots, and he worked on large slabs.

Power tools get you close, when there's lots to do.
Hand tools get you a precise surface, when you're near the finish.

It's an ambitious project, by any measure.

[Brian Holcombe]

Unless you are thicknessing the top, it's not to bad to do it with all hand tools. Thicknessing is hellish on big slabs, I did it for the dining table I did recently (78 x 32), and it was tough.

i followed it up with another, smaller table, that I settled on jointing by hand, cutting to thickness with machine tools, then finishing by hand plane.

jointing by hand is the critical process, because it can be incredibly precise and can take out warp.

i agree with Jim, next slab top I do, I will do a great majority of it with a power planer, but leave enough to finish by hand tools.

[Judson Green]

Agreed, thicknessing is NOT fun! I don't mind jointing/flattened boards but flipping em over and getting em to the proper thickness, kinda sucks. Projects like this make me think about getting a lunch box planer.

But the table top is pretty much done in that regard, just need to do some joinery for the bread board ends, plane those in flush and finish plane it. Yay!

[Winton Applegate]

Here is a good practical article (http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/flattening-tabletops.aspx)

This table top in my photos here is 44 inches wide by about five and half feet. I did it all by hand plane and band saw to get the rough planks to similar thickness and straightness. No router or hand power planer or sanders or lunch box planers.
In the first photo is a clue about planing surfaces you can’t reach to the center of. By the way; you are looking at the underside of the table top. I didn’t use the technique in this case. I have the slab in this position to plane the end grain and long edges (when I rotate the long edges parallel to the bench top / floor).

Speaking of straight edges see third photo. Interestingly enough I casually (some would say cavalierly) tested the theory that THE UNDERSIDE OF THE TABLE MUST BE FINISHED WITH ROUGHLY THE SAME NUMBER OF COATS OF FINISH AND TYPE AS THE TOP. to prevent cupping.

I put no finish at all on the underside. It has remained extremely flat. Partly because it is well supported, partly because it is bubinga and partly because it is about 8/4 thick.

The top has a ton of Maloof, (combined with my own elixir; hard won by a winter of experimentation to find out what brings out the best in bubinga) then a ton of half fast french polish over that. The finish thickness still isn’t very thick . . . the maloof soaks in for an in the wood finish and the ton of coats of french polish amounts to a thinnish on top of the wood finish to magnify the colors of the natural wood color (no dies or I can barely bring my self to type the word . . . stain . . .). I did make use of the slight tinting properties of the ruby shellac to act as a glaze to help blend the drastic difference in the center plank. It came out exceedingly well (lucky).

Every now and then I have the uncontrollable urge to grab a plane and plane all the finish off and just go with the in the wood finish. What stops me is it wouldn’t look as good and especially since I couldn’t compensate for that “runner” of a plank down the middle. It has way more blacks in it that the other planks. Bubinga is pretty hard to get in my town so I had to go with what my local wood vender could get his hands on and the really grand stuff in a town well south of me was in the $1000 plus price range just for the wood.

[Winton Applegate]

Bread board ends ! ! !

How thick (thin) is this table ?

Thicknessing by hand is hellish

You aren't saying you did it AFTER gluing up the slab right ? Or you mean the little dab after the thicknesed slabs are glued up ?

Here is a favorite shop photo (second photo here) that I never get tired of looking at (or begging other people to look at) (like now). It was a real pleasure, though lots of work, to see these rough planks (first photo) go from rough planks to "hey I might just be able to do this by hand after all".

To send Hell back where it belongs I recommend a bandsaw capable of 12" resaw depth, an LN scrub plane and some water wetting of the surface.

[Judson Green]

The table top is from 4/4 cherry, so the finished product is probably around ⅞".

No, I didn't thickness after the entire thing was glued up, that be crazy. I glued and thicknessed in stages. What I'm asking about is the physicality of the final smoothing - how do I actually push/pull the plane in the center of the table top. Your idea of doing it vertical is intriguing, but I feel easier just put the table top on the floor and climb on.

I have and did use a scrub plane, but only on the worst offenders. Hadn't thought to use the bandsaw to thickness. I guess I was concerned that the little bit I was taking off would flex the blade too much - blade not fully engaged in the cut on both sides and in and out of the work piece.

I have a power planer, but I fail to see how in this application that would be the proper tool, maybe for rough lumber.

[Pat Barry]

For me, it would be excruciating to put a large table top on the floor and then what? Kneel on it and plane it flat?? Sounds like torture and something I wouldn't want to try. There is really no need to do this. Keep it on your workbench and plane edge to center. Standing it up might be an alternative if you could support it against a wall but I don't have any clamps on my wall and for a thinner top like you have you definitely need the support, but to me it would still be more trouble than its worth.

[Prashun Patel]

Here, here, Pat. I'm curious to hear from someone who has actually done the floor thing. I doubt my floor is flat enough to use as a planing reference.

[Judson Green]

Well, I guess I'm not thinking of putting it on the floor either but more of a half measure, placing it on my saw bench (~ knee height) with a non-slip shelf liner under it and getting the bulk of it that way. I've got two sawhorses at the same height as the saw bench so if I keep the planing action happening over the saw bench I should be OK.... I hope. I might do the final final planing with it attached to the base with the base somehow supported.

My workbench is up against the wall (and way to difficult to move away from it) so too much of the table top is left unsupported and the supported part very difficult reach.

[Sam Stephens]

without hesitation I would climb on top of it and plane the middle perhaps just a hair hollow and then climb off and go from the sides in. If I placed it on the floor, I'd use those thick non-skid puzzle type mats under it.

[Winton Applegate]

The table top is from 4/4 cherry, so the finished product is probably around ⅞".

There’s an optimist.

45 inches is totally doable flat (on a bench) for the middle of the length you can reach to the center and pull the plane toward you. Yes with a western style plane.
Walk along and push for the left and right.
Here we begin to see the advantage of excellent sharpening because if you have all the grain one direction you will be against the grain on part of it or planing using your non dominate side. As was said recently in another thread; doable but not fun and not as safe for those final critical finishing passes.

For scrubbing/planing cross grain . . . again plane toward the center from both sides and or pull the plane from the center toward you. Depends on your reach.

Yah, no reason to put it up vertical or diagonal to the floor for this size.


Bandsaw
Over about 1/4 inch to be removed, say to straighten a board or correct the thickness then I bandsaw. Not to brag but to express my respect for the tool and the people who made it . . .
I have a Laguna bandsaw, a smaller inexpensive one. It is extremely controllable due to the proprietary ceramic guides and big wide precision ground resaw blade. The blade is made with the same precision as a fine table saw blade and cuts like a dream. If you haven’t seen it I would go to the Laguna online and watch the owner of the company “resaw” sheets of paper off a length of fire wood that still has the bark on it. Sorry, it is there but I couldn't find the link to it. The log was not the large gnarly one but a log about a foot long. Yah . . . my saw with that blade will actually do just what he says it will. No deflection. I got what I paid for . . . and then some.

http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/resawking (http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/resawking)
G (http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt14suv#)o here (http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt14suv#) , click on "Videos" then click on 'The Perfect Cut" video. Slide the slider; it is the last video in the bandsaw series.
http://www.lagunatools.com/company/video-bandsaw (http://www.lagunatools.com/company/video-bandsaw)

I only get into that realm when “straightening” a board and would generally just scrub anything bellow about 1/4 inch. The advantage though is then one has that wood to make stuff out of, veneer etc. rather than turning it into wood chips .
First photo is an example of some purple heart I saved as a resawed cut off from making my bench rather than turn it into chips. The small planing beam is just the thing for edge jointing and face planing such a thin “plank”.

[Winton Applegate]

Well . . .
I haven't but I have read some where someone discussing hand planes used for leveling floors. I think it was over in FWW chat room long time ago.

And we were talking about this sort of thing for some one who had a big natural edge table and they wanted to level it or take the finish off it or some such.

They had all sorts of limitations and arguments.
I finally gave up and suggested renting the thing in the photo.

Ha, ha.