My New Workbench

[Don Rogers]

Af this late age of almost 79, I am building my first workbench. It will be 72” long and approx. 30” wide with two aprons 1-1/2” x 10” x 72”. The front vise is an Emmert with jaws 7” x 18” and the Tail vise is a Craftsman quick release with a 12” opening and 10 x 5-1/2 jaws.The Emmert will be mounted so that it’s short jaws are flush with the left hand side of the bench - 9” to the vise’s center from the bench edge. The tail vise will be mounted on the right end so that it is flush or slightly less from the apron.


The top is being made with 7 vertically laminated 2 x 4s, approx. 10” x 72” in the front plus a 12: well plus 3 vertically laminated 2 x 4s and the rear 1-1/2 apron for a total width of approx. 30”.
The legs are 2—3/4 x 3-1/2 with length yet to be determined. Two rails are mortised into each leg sets and the legs are fitted into the housing dados cut into the aprons.


After looking at many workbench designs, this seems to be the best compromise for me. The lumber is not all that expensive, I already have the vises, and I really enjoy building a project like this.


Never having had or used a workbench before, I would appreciate any input you have. At this point all boards have been cut to 72”+2” waste, both front and rear aprons are glued up and the legs have been cut except for length and mortising.


The Emmert has 2 dogs on the fixed jaw and 2 on the movable jaw both spaced approx. 9” apart. I’m thinking about several sets of dog holes to hold work aligned with the vise travel to use the Emmert’s movable jaw’s dogs.This would then permit work to be held from the movable jaw toward the rear of the bench.


The Craftsman vise could serve as a tail vise with sets of dog holes running parallel to the bench front to hold work lengthwise.


Should I use round or square dog holes? Square holes require preliminary planning before gluing the top laminations whereas round holes can be drilled later. Are square dogs worth the extra effort? Round holes can also be used fir hold-downs. With both front and rear aprons, using clamps to hold work won’t be as easy.


Having a well seems like a very good idea. I never have enough space to put work because of all the tools, etc. cluttering up the area. However, I realize that some do not like having a well. This is up in the air - I could just laminate an entirely solid top. Also, shavings are bound to get into the well and I’m not sure how to brush them out. Is that what a sloped well end is for? How about a removable bottom section?


I’m sure I have more questions but they will have to wait. Again, any constructive criticism will be welcome.


Don

[Lonnie Gallaher]

Well, I have thing to say. I will be 64 next week and still slaying dragons full time. At times I wonder if I will be able to devote more time to woodworking and if I will stay healthy enough to do so. Although at this time I am spending every minute I can on a kitchen build. My hope is to still be going strong at 79. So you give me hope and something to look forward to.

Good luck with the bench build.

[Matt Lau]

I salute you!

My mentor is 67 years old, and is an inspiration to me.

Regarding dog holes, I prefer round.
They're much easier to make (just use a router or a brace).
Also, I find that a round dog with a flat face will be far more versatile than a square dog.
The round dog with auto-align with the piece being clamped.

[Brian Holcombe]

I prefer square dogs, they will not turn on you.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm basically building the same top you've described.

The only caution would be to make sure you have sufficient
clearance for the Emmert to spin, regardless of tilt.

Mine had some collision problems, probably because the mechanism
is a little eccentric. Get the vise on where you like it,
and apply the front "face" board to your bench at the last,
so things align.

I prefer round dogs, because I can drill those easily with a plunge router.

With a hold fast, I can put battens anywhere I like and use the Emmert as a glorified panel clamp.
I dunno about how you work, but the traditional tail vise is something I rarely use.

I'll be laying in a Veritas inset vise, instead.

[Prashun Patel]

I prefer round dogs. They're easier to add after the fact if you decide (as I have) that you need more.

I don't find the turning issue to be a problem. I put square heads on a few of my dogs and that does the trick.

There are also times when I prefer to use a bench stop at a skew angle. By having two parallel rows of round dog holes, you can do this.

In summary, round (for me) are more versatile; the limitations can be overcome.

[Don Rogers]

Lonnie and Matt,


Thank you for your kind words. It’s important to keep busy and to have something to look forward to. You may develop problems and limitations as you age but, if you are lucky. as I am, try to not let them stop you.
I lean toward round dog holes but needed confirmation.


Brian,


Square dog holes were my first choice, but planing their location before gluing up the top is a problem to me, having no experience in using them.


Jim,


Glad to hear you are building a similar top. Locating the Emmert jaw/apron relationship was another problem for me.
My front apron is already glued up and 74” long with expectations of having to cut it shorter for the Emmert clearance. One problem I see is the Emmert rear jaw face/apron relationship. I want to be able to put holes for pins in the apron to help support long boards and am wondering should the rear jaw face be flush or proud of the apron. Any experience with this?


Again, I’m leaning towards round dog holes but had not considered using a plunge router to make them. Sounds like a great idea.


Also, The Veritas inset tail vise may make things easier for me. I already have the Craftsman quick release vise but it is mounted to an old make-shift bench which I never seem to use. It’s very much like “http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=49980&cat=1,41659”. version B, but somewhat difficult to mount and not quite as smooth operating as I would like. Also, I have never used a tail vise and could put off mounting either one until later. Your Veritas suggestion is a good one.


We should continue to compare notes on this workbench build.


Prashun,


That’s great input on the round dog holes and I am becoming convinced to use them and wait until the bench is finished before locating them.


Thank you all,


Don

[Judson Green]

Regarding dogs

I had round dogs in my first bench and had no problem with em, I kinda liked that they would turn a little to accommodate irregular shapes. But I made my own round dogs and didn't feel that was an easy task, at the time I had no lathe. So I guess what I'm saying is drilling a hole is pretty easy making the dog wasn't.

My new bench top has square dogs (just wood no leather pads) and they do not hold irregular shapes as well, but were must easier to make. And was easily able to make more than enough for every hole. Cutting the dados wasn't that hard, I used a depth stop on a backsaw and just chiseled out the waste. Definitely harder than drawing a hole, but...

Some tips I received about placement. Put one approximately every half distance of your vises travel or in other words two for the open width of your vise. And get the first row as close as possible to the front edge of your bench. When you're using fenced tools say a rabbit plane or router you'll appreciate that you might be able to hang the edge over your bench.

Mine are about 1⅜" from the edge. And the dog in my vise is round, just cause I used the old one for my first bench top.

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[Malcolm Schweizer]

I like the idea of square dogs where the dogs stay in the holes and you push them up to use them. I like round dogs because there are a lot of aftermarket options for round dog holes. I thought I might make square dogs and then make a few special dogs with round holes in them so I can use aftermarket round accessories if I want.

[Richard N Elliott]

My hope is to still be going strong at 79. So you give me hope...

AMEN to that! I'm 69 and still working...


I'm still using a bench I built over 40 years ago. I'm thinking of another one so I'll be watching this thread.

[Don Rogers]

Judson,


Your workmanship is top notch and I appreciate the sharp photos. If I leave the front apron off until nearly completed, I could still put in a row of square holes. Decisions - decisions !!!


I have lathes and could make round dogs later if I decide to. Did you use wood , brass or something else for the dogs?


That’s good info about dog placement. I’ll file that for future reference.


Thank you


Malcom,


You present a lot of options for me and I will take them into consideration.


Thank you


Don

[Pat Barry]

I too went with round 3/4" holes for my doggies. I happened to have an old Stanley Workmate and it had 4 plastic dogs that easily press in to the dog holes. I see Rockler now sells a pack of 4 of these for about $7. They have worked great - they have a flat side so they give a good grip on the flat end of a board and they can be rotated as needed. I also bought a chunk of 3/4" dowel material, I think its Oak but on occasion have actually used walnut dowel rod scrap that I happened to have. They dowels are a tad bit undersized so a wrap of tape makes them fit so they don't fall though. My holes did not come out as totally perpendicular to the bench as I was striving for - I wish I had a pluge router to drill them with - that would have been a huge improvement over the free-hand electric drill with a square as a reference.

[Don Rogers]

AMEN to that! I'm 69 and still working...


I'm still using a bench I built over 40 years ago. I'm thinking of another one so I'll be watching this thread.

Richard,

My current bench is all metal/plastic with a composite (MDF of some kind) top. It is about 25-30 years old and has 8 drawers. Years ago I managed to mount the Emmert on it, fastened it to the wall, and have been using it occasionally ever since. I rarely see the entire top and can't seem to keep it clear enough to put work on the top. The vise holds most of my work.

Building this workbench really pointed out how useful a woodworking workbench would be. Hopefully, with the well and flat 30 x 72' surface, I will be able to keep it clear.

Please do keep an eye on this thread and bear with me.

By the way, I retired at 67 and have not worked a job since. Let me say, however, I'm busier than ever and would certainly not have time to work. That part is over with.

Don

[Don Rogers]

I too went with round 3/4" holes for my doggies. I happened to have an old Stanley Workmate and it had 4 plastic dogs that easily press in to the dog holes. I see Rockler now sells a pack of 4 of these for about $7. They have worked great - they have a flat side so they give a good grip on the flat end of a board and they can be rotated as needed. I also bought a chunk of 3/4" dowel material, I think its Oak but on occasion have actually used walnut dowel rod scrap that I happened to have. They dowels are a tad bit undersized so a wrap of tape makes them fit so they don't fall though. My holes did not come out as totally perpendicular to the bench as I was striving for - I wish I had a pluge router to drill them with - that would have been a huge improvement over the free-hand electric drill with a square as a reference.

Pat,

I also have a similar Workmate with the plastic dogs but hardly use it and forgot about it's dogs. Thanks for reminding me.

It's good to know that round wooden dowels work as dogs = I can try that also.

Lately I have been concentrating on doing things the Neanderthal way when I can and originally planned on using an auger bit/brace combo. But after reading the postings on this thread, I will certainly try using my plunge router to make the dog holes. That should get them straighter than the brace/auger combo. That suits my skill lever better. I can practice on scrap wood to improve my skill later.

Thanks for your comments.

Don

[Don Rogers]

Another question comes to mind.

I had an 8" sq. x 42+ length of pine which I sawed into 4 equal pieces for legs. I should end up with all 4 being 2-3/4 x 3-1/2" in cross section and the next job is to chop two 1/2" mortises in each for the cross members. Before making the cross section to final size, is there a preferable grain direction for the mortises? Sorry I can't be more specific about the grain direction but the are all different. Maybe I should ask if it is best to chop directly into the growth rings or parallel to them. This is not a fair question, I know.

When I learn how to post sketches, I can be more specific.
Don

[Judson Green]

Thanks for the kind compliment.

The dogs both round and square are made out of wood. The wire in the round dog was from a wire whisk, but you could use just about anything, maybe a sturdy paper clip. Was also thinking out using rubber o-rings.

Personal I'd stay away from the plastic dogs from the workmate... I can't tell ya how many times use my dogs set barely above the workbench surface. There no replacement for real bench dogs.

My bench has a well too! The flat surface is about 21" deep by 84".

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[Jim Matthews]

I want to be able to put holes for pins in the apron to help support long boards and am wondering should the rear jaw face be flush or proud of the apron. Any experience with this? Don

The rear jaw of my Emmert is inset, so that the exposed face of the rear jaw is in the same plane
as the front apron. That way, I can clamp long boards along the front of the bench.

(Not that I do that often, since I made my dining room table.)

FYI - I "hogged out" the pocket for the Emmert with a circular saw and gouges. It was the most difficult part.
Fit the Emmert with the bracket, only. That keeps the weight off the top while you're getting things right.

I followed the steps shown in James Watriss' blog, and it works for me.
http://jameswatriss.blogspot.com/p/installing-emmert.html

Get help, flipping the top over.
These things are heavy, awkward to handle alone and subject to the law of gravity.

(I did most of my fitting at knee height, on my sawbenches.)

[Pat Barry]

Personal I'd stay away from the plastic dogs from the workmate... I can't tell ya how many times use my dogs set barely above the workbench surface.
I do agree obviously if you need low profile but the ones for the Workmate are fine for something about 1/2" thick or more and obviously they are also tool friendly, like a wooden one. I like your idea of the wire in the round dogs. I might give that a try soon

[Don Rogers]

Judson,


I found a Paul Sellers video about making dogs and it is about the same as you describe. Will probably wait until bench is finished before making dogs but could use the Workmate dogs in a pinch. Thinking about wood, brass, or aluminum - depending on what I can find.


Can you explain the pictures in your last post? I’m tired and brain is not functioning too well.


My well should be about 2-1/2 deep but not as long as the bench. The 7 laminated 2 x 4’s will be about 10” wide and the Emmert will require more depth than that. I may have to laminate a short section of 2 bys on the left bench side to add to that depth. This will reduce the well length by about 14”. More decisions !!!


Don

[Brian Holcombe]

I recommend wood, I've never damaged tools or work with wooden dogs. Judson is right on the money with the placement of the wooden dogs.

I think it ambitious to have a dog for every hole, but it would make life slightly easier.

[Judson Green]

Don

IIRC, I was inspired by Paul Sellers dogs and made a version of my own.

The larger dog is for square dog holes. Made of ash. Has a "spring" also made of ash. That springyness is made by cutting a slight taper on the down end of the dog.

The round dogs are some crabapple. Basically just made a dowel then flatten one side just a little to get clearance for the bent wire in the hole. Then drilled two holes, the bottom hole as close to the size of the wire as possible, the top hole sized larger so the wire would move back and forth freely. And lastly, cut a flat part on the top (business end) of the dog approximately half its diameter and about ⅝" down.

Hope this helps, if you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer those... or photos of different angles.


Edit:

Also with the round dogs I made that vertical cut (the one though the diameter) at a slight angle, so when in use the work will be engaged at the very top of the dog first. With the square ones I cut the dados the dogs go in to at a slight angle. Just a few degrees off perpendicular is all that's needed.

[Don Rogers]

Jim,


Thanks for the Emmert installation info and the James Watriss link. I must have forgotten about the work involved in mounting this vise. It’s been many years since I installed mine on the makeshift bench and the details have escaped me.


Placing the rear vise jaw’s surface in the same plane as the apron is good info.


Now, I’m thinking about gluing up the 7 laminated 2 by’s, then, while that portion of the top is still somewhat managable, doing part of the vise installation. Maybe, if I plan ahead, each 2 by can be cut out for the vise before gluing them together. Also, the shorter section of 2 by’s to extend the mounting area (see my previous post)could be similarly pre-fabbed.


Getting information like this from you and others will certainly reduce my mistakes in making this bench. Anything else you or others can add will certainly be appreciated.


Thank you


Don

[Don Rogers]

Judson,


Yes I was viewing the dog video last evening. I have learned a lot from this forum and videos like Paul’s.


That’s great info on making the dogs. That will go in my workbench file - which is growing day by day.


Thank you for offering additional info. I will take advantage of that. Anything you have to offer will be appreciated. At this point, future problems are unknown but I’m sure they will surface.


Don

[Judson Green]

Have you got a plan or sketches?

I'm sure we'd all like to see them if you do.

[Don Rogers]

I recommend wood, I've never damaged tools or work with wooden dogs. Judson is right on the money with the placement of the wooden dogs.

I think it ambitious to have a dog for every hole, but it would make life slightly easier.Brian,

Well, after this workbench build, I may need a smaller project like making a bunch of dogs. I too, am concerned about using brass or aluminum for the dogs. Believe I'd much rather run into wood dogs with my chisels or planes. While brass or aluminum are better in that respect than steel, it seems as though they will still ruin cutting edges. Wood is much safer.

Thanks,

Don

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been rethinking the dog issues myself. I have read a few threads by our own Chris Grigg's regarding his two bench builds and somewhere he mentioned using "Veritas Planing Stops". These devices seem more flexible and adaptable to the kinds of work I do and plan to do than any bench dogs. These Planing Stops employ two round dogs with a .22" thick piece of aluminum between them. They come in several different sizes. A dog in a tail vise can hold even large pieces of wood against these. Probably even better, the wider surface area makes it easy to just use the forward pressure of planing to trap a workpiece against the devise. The aluminum stop is soft enough to not cause serious damage to an errant blade and thin enough so chances of hitting it are very small. The two "dogs" on the bottom of these devices slide within a track on the bottom, allowing the devices to adapt to different bench dog positions.

[Don Rogers]

Mike,

Thank you for reminding me about the "Veritas Planing Dogs"

I. also was thinking bout them and made a copy of that LV catalog page for my workbench folder. They seem really neat especially because of their low profile and variable planing Stop. LV has many bench dog offerings plus ones that you can make yourself. I'm probably going to wait for the bench completion before "going to the dogs".

I spent the afternoon adding another flourescent fixture over my old bench so I could see better to chop leg mortises. Finished one 1/2" haunched mortise and still have a regular mortise to put in the same leg. This is all new to me but it looks fair so far and after I make the haunched tenon, I'll know how staight it is. Only 7 more mortises to do.!!! I'm using a 1/2" Narex mortise chisel purchased eatlier from LV.

Thanks for your ideas.

Don

[Don Rogers]

Just discovered the "Workbench" section in the FAQ postings. Looks like I have alot to read.
Don

[Judson Green]

Here's some more photos for ya. The first photo I used a shaving to keep the dog from rolling.

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In the middle photo notice the slight angle of the working surface of the dog.

[Don Rogers]

Judson,
Yes, those pictures help clear things up for me and I appreciate your efforts.
My project is progressing slowly and I have begun mortising the legs. This and then making tenons to fit will take some time. After the legs are finished I can get back to the top. Quite a project!!!
Don