Cheapest way to go for proper dust collection?

[Michael Yadfar]

I bought all my new power tools awhile ago to start my woodshop, but sort of left dust collection out of the picture. The reason I haven't used the tools yet is because I did things in an odd order and decided to insulate the shop after buying the tools, and I still haven't touched the planer or jointer (planer is still in packaging 2 months after I bought it). I have used my table saw a lot, and used the bandsaw and miter saw a decent amount of times. Typically for these tools I use my shop vac, which is suitable for these because these don't produce heavy chip flow. However, it's still not the best, and for my 15" spiral head planer, it's not gonna seal the deal.

I know little to none about dust collection, so I need some advice. I pretty much need something suitable for my 15" spiral head planer which will produce the heaviest chip flow. People have also said stuff about better bags and some kind of cyclone separator. I've also heard people mention buying a cheap Harbor Freight one that they did heavy mods to, and while I'm religiously against shopping at harbor freight, this would be my one exception if necessary. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this cheaply and properly?

[Prashun Patel]

You'll get different answers. here's mine:

Get a single stage machine, change the filter to a 1u cartridge, and then build a pre-separator. I have a couple Thien separators that work very well. The HF 2hp machine is a good value - I wouldn't call these mods 'heavy'. They're quite doable and straightforward.

I would also get a good shop vac and buy a Dust Deputy for it. A DD does a great job for dust collection for routers and sanders and other portable tools.

You can also save a good deal of $$ and increase your efficiency by planning your shop so either the hose can be moved from tool to tool or so the DC can be rolled up to each tool as necessary.

[Matt Day]

I have similar machines and have a Delta 50–760 1 1/2 hp dust collector. I installed a Wynn environmental cartridge filter instead of the stock cloth bag. I also filled a separator, which makes removing all the dust and chips easier.
I have about 20 feet of 4 inch flex hose going to my 15 inch planer, and it does a decent job of collecting everything. Ideally I would have a cyclone unit with more horsepower, but funds do not allow for it and I am pretty happy with the setup.
So I would suggest a set up like this, or similar with a harbor freight unit. I seem to see these type dust collectors top up quite a bit on craigslist. For instance a friend of mine just got a used 50-760 for $100 but it did not include a filter bag or anything, which you would not need to make the modifications you probably will want to do.

[Marty Tippin]

Unless your shop is in the basement of your home (or otherwise attached to the living area) and unless you spend occupational-length hours in the shop, I don't see any reason to get carried away with a super-efficient cannister filter. But I also wouldn't use a DC with the paper-thin filter bag like the HF or low-end Jet models.

I have both the Delta 50-760 and Grizzly G1028Z, both have a 2.5 micron filter bag, and am deciding that I like the Grizzly a lot better, as it does a much better job of inducing a "cyclonic" flow that separates that heavy chips and dust. For $394 delivered to your door, the G1028Z seems like a no-brainer. You'll almost certainly spend more than that for a cheap DC and a cartridge upgrade and pre-separator. And I just don't see the need for that.

My shop-vac is a Rigid 16 gal with a disposable paper filter bag. I use it with an adapter on my ROPS and at the router table, since I haven't set the table up to work with the 4" pipe on the Grizzly DC. The paper filter works great to take dust out of the air and 16 gal capacity is a lot. As in, I bought the vac 8 months ago and still haven't changed the first bag...

[Matt Day]

I just want to add that I agree with Marty to some extent about the cartridge filter. It definitely is not necessary for going the cheapest route possible, I upgraded mine after a number of years and it was actually a Christmas present. I did notice an increase in CFM after installing it.

[Loren Woirhaye]

"Cyclone" trash can lid and whatever you want to use to pull suction through it. It's the long runs of fixed ducting that demand higher powered impellers. A planer can be chip-collected using a cyclone lid and a shop vac... pretty adequately.

Now, if you're talking about the health risks of "fine dust" that's a different matter. Planers and jointers produce a lot of chips and not a lot of fine dust requiring fine filtering. They do produce some but it's only a noticeable cloud when doing a lot of continuous operation. Table saws, sanders and band saws produce much more fine dust. The table saw also like to throw it around the shop. Overhead and well as under the saw dust collection is the way to go with the table saw. The band saw at least tends to carry dust down into the cabinet and while really effective dust control with band saws is difficult, you can get a lot of the airborne fine dust by porting the lower cabinet to get it where it falls.

[Prashun Patel]

The Delta 50-760 comes with a 1u bag, I believe.

[John T Barker]

I bought all my new power tools awhile ago to start my woodshop, but sort of left dust collection out of the picture. The reason I haven't used the tools yet is because I did things in an odd order and decided to insulate the shop after buying the tools, and I still haven't touched the planer or jointer (planer is still in packaging 2 months after I bought it). I have used my table saw a lot, and used the bandsaw and miter saw a decent amount of times. Typically for these tools I use my shop vac, which is suitable for these because these don't produce heavy chip flow. However, it's still not the best, and for my 15" spiral head planer, it's not gonna seal the deal.

I know little to none about dust collection, so I need some advice. I pretty much need something suitable for my 15" spiral head planer which will produce the heaviest chip flow. People have also said stuff about better bags and some kind of cyclone separator. I've also heard people mention buying a cheap Harbor Freight one that they did heavy mods to, and while I'm religiously against shopping at harbor freight, this would be my one exception if necessary. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this cheaply and properly?

Cheap is a relative term. My first bit of advice would be Craigslist. I'm close to you here in Pa. and I check it regularly and there are always nice small shop dust collectors going for a good deal. One of these days I will get one but I do not plan to run pipe through my shop but will opt to move it from machine to machine as needed. HF seems like a good idea but I would wait for the word of guys that use them...some of that stuff is flimsy looking. A machine used as often as a dust collector might need to be a little better than their quality. (Who am I kidding, they're all made in China?) Id also try to build or buy a ceiling hung dust collector for the small stuff the bigger unit doesn't get.

[Curt Rowe]

Just to give you an idea of how cheap you can go, I survived for years with an old Delta portable. It had a 3/4 horse motor, IRC, on top of a cardboard drum with wheels. The inlet was four inches. I was able to do a decent job of evacuating the chips from my Delta 13" planer with 12 foot long leaking flexible hose connection. It did a much better job with my table saw and planer. I've since gone with a stationary 3 hp Oneida cyclone with metal duck work.

[johnny means]

I'm not going to recommend any particular filter or collector because there are way to many possibilities and most will do a decent job. But, I'll say that the biggest savings is probably to be had in the ducting end of things. A lot can be achieved with 4" pvc and fittings. Of course we'll hear from the DC technician crowd out there about how 4" ducting doesn't offer peak efficiency or may blow up your shop. Anyway, you can certainly duct a shop affordably with it and I've seen some really clean shops ducted with 4" pvc. Then, if you ever want to step up to the real thing, you can do it a bit at a time.

[Michael Yadfar]

I don't plan to duct, especially because the shop I'm working out of now is a joke, and I literally have to move a machine to the middle just to use it, and put it away and place another one in the middle to use that. If I can truely get away without the cyclones and upgraded filters, which I don't even fully understand yet, I may do that. I definetely will keep an eye out on CL, but I probably got to research what the heck I want first. I was just afraid to look there because 6 months of tool searching and only bringing in one used tool was painful. I went to the Muncy showroom to buy my Grizzly tools, and I probably should have just picked up a collector when I was there. Too late now...

[Kent A Bathurst]

Cheapest, functional, DC is any-old-brand used off of craigslist. Single stage. Two filters u, two collection bags down. 1.5 HP. 4' - 6' flex hose. Wheels. Roll it machine-to-machine.

There are so many chi-wan-ese DC units out there - I can't see spit's worth of difference between them at this level of performance. I'd bet 75% of them have main components all from the same 1 or 2 factories.

You are out a buck-fifty +/-, is my guess, for a nice collector.

[Paul McGaha]

I spent more on dust collection than any other tool in the shop (Counting the cyclone, duct system and all the other accessories).

I think I remember a very popular thread a few years back about where did you spend the money in your shop? It was pretty interesting. As I recall several creekers stated they spent more on dust collection than any other tool in their shop (counting all the accessories associated with each tool).

Just my $.02 but to me dust collection is not the item to go cheap on.

Of course it depends on a lot of things like the size of your shop, how long you plan to be in it and the tools you have (and might buy in the future).

PHM

[Jim Andrew]

My 15" Grizzly planer has a 4" outlet for dust, and that is all it needs. The machine is well designed for dust. My 2 hp collector can handle both the tablesaw and the planer at the same time.

[Michael Yadfar]

My 15" Grizzly planer has a 4" outlet for dust, and that is all it needs. The machine is well designed for dust. My 2 hp collector can handle both the tablesaw and the planer at the same time.

Are you talking about the Grizzly one? I will try the use route first most likely, but I may consider Grizzlys dust collection if it's half decent the way it is, just to match some of my Grizzly tools

[David Weaver]

Hand tools. that's the cheapest way I can think of. Quiet, too. Except the hammers.

[Ole Anderson]

I agree with Paul that dust collection is too important to give it less than your best shot. It will be one of your most used and useful tools.

[Jim Andrew]

I mean the Grizzly planer is easy to collect the dust from. Well designed hood,it does not need a 6" connection. 4" is plenty big. Too bad you are not my neighbor, picked up a cyclone reasonable today. They had 2.

[Mike Olson]

This is not for everyone, but you could always go the route I took with a ShopVac and a 2x4


http://youtu.be/n3E6ljLQFBI

[Phil Stone]

This is not for everyone, but you could always go the route I took with a ShopVac and a 2x4

That is extremely cool, Mike. How is it holding up under use?

[Mike Chalmers]

My set up. 2 HP Craftex CX400 (Cannister and 12 3/4" impeller). Super Dust Deputy on 32 Gallon Brute garbage can. 6" hose from DC unit to SDD, 5" from SDD to Junction. Junction connects to 20" planer, reduces to 4" to Table saw and jointer. Ridgid 6.5hp vacuum with Dust Deputy to over head dust collection on Table saw. Also used for Rotor table, Ridgid Oscillating edge/spindle sander, and general clean up. Shop Vac 2.5hp with Dust Deputy for Radial arm Saw. Also connects direct with Ridgid hose to Dewalt Ransom Orbital and finishing sanders. I have fans set up to circulate air around the shop to the overhead air cleaner unit. End result is a shop that shows very little accumulation of dust. No sense of dust in the air, no evidence of dust in my nose, throat etc (mucus buildup). In addition to the equipment, I seldom leave the shop without cleaning it up. I usually do a clean up at a tools once done, router table for example. It does not meet Pentz's standard (almost nothing does, unless you spend $5K plus), but I am confident that I have very good dust control and little health risk.

[Mike Olson]

That is extremely cool, Mike. How is it holding up under use?

holding up fine, but I'm just a hobby shop.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

Get the biggest DC unit you can afford, be able to power, and put it outside the shop. Run the hoses through the door or the wall. If it's a longish distance you'll need to fab up a large trunk line for increased flow.

I have a 1 1/2HP Jet DC1100. It sits outside the shop with 4" flexible hoses that come through the door. It works pretty good actually, but I need a bigger unit, and larger diameter hoses to really make everything work better. Especially for the bandsaw.
Get the DC Unit out of the shop and you overcome a lot of obstacles that really drive the costs up.

Keith Outten has posted pic's of his "system", which is no more than a DC exhausting directly into a big plywood box outside his shop. Cheap and effective.

[Curt Harms]

You'll get different answers. here's mine:

Get a single stage machine, change the filter to a 1u cartridge, and then build a pre-separator. I have a couple Thien separators that work very well. The HF 2hp machine is a good value - I wouldn't call these mods 'heavy'. They're quite doable and straightforward.

I would also get a good shop vac and buy a Dust Deputy for it. A DD does a great job for dust collection for routers and sanders and other portable tools.

You can also save a good deal of $$ and increase your efficiency by planning your shop so either the hose can be moved from tool to tool or so the DC can be rolled up to each tool as necessary.

This is pretty much what I have. The best "bang for the buck" is IMO a Thien baffle. I have mine installed in the metal 'funnel' just above the lower bag. The baffle really helps to keep particles out of the cartridge filter. I still have to vacuum (and in my case hose out - Wynn 100% spun bonded filters can be washed out) perhaps once a year. All filters gradually clog and lose efficiency unless they're cleaned. A separator like Phil's baffle reduces the amount of chips and dust that make it to the filter so they need to be cleaned less frequently. A lot of people build a freestanding 'top hat'setup incorporating a separator. I don't really have the room and if I empty my D.C. bag when it's about half full, it's not hard to do. An added bonus to emptying early and often is I think less waste makes its way from the bag back into the filter.

[Erik Christensen]

you want to learn about dust collection go to billpentz.com

[Tom Clark FL]

Years ago I purchased a 1hp dust collector. It was a joke, so I purchased a 2hp G1029. It still works fine 20+ years later. The small dc ended up attached to the band saw. It can collect the dust from that.

The machines all back up to each other so short hoses can be used. A 30 gal trash can is used to separate the chips from the 15" planer and 3hp shaper.

I also have a home-made shop air cleaner that deals with the finer dust and the mess from routhers and sanders. Been using the same set up for nearly 25 years, but I am just a home hobby shop. The whole set up was quite inexpensive.

As usual, photos are not in order loaded, but you should be able to get the picture.

[Greg Portland]

The cheapest method is to buy any cheap chip collector (bags don't matter) and a high quality respirator. Fine dust will go all over the place. If you want to ditch the respirator then you will want to ensure that no fine dust escapes... this will cost significant money and setup time.

[Thomas Canfield]

It depends on your shop size and arrangement. I have a 2 HP Oneida cyclone with hard ductwork and slide gates installed in my little 16x24 shop because the system was relocated from a larger previous shop. Doing it over again, I would have probably opted for a stand/cart mount 1-1/2HP cyclone and only flex duct moving between equipment to save the cost of all the ridgid duct and gates. A 1-1/2 HP unit would serve 2 pieces of equipment (planer, jointer, table saw, etc) running. The only issue is the space to move the stand and the dust bin is usually smaller. The 1-1/2HP can also operate 110 or 220. I prefer a cyclone over the single stage units and a trash can separator also.

[Bradley Potts]

Yep, after completing my Thien separator hop-up to my HF 2hp DC, I figured out a couple of things:

1) Singed surface polyester DC bags are cheaper, easier to clean, less prone to clogging, but bigger than cartridge filters of the same level of protection and CFM capacity. These can be ordered to custom configurations.
2) As another member noted, knocking on the HF isn't such a good idea since it is nearly identical to the Delta, the Grizz, and the Jet that are comparable setups; yes, the way things are manufactured in China, these all probably come from the same factory and are built to slightly different specifications. The differences come down to filtration rate of the bags, and ergonomics. The HF's impeller is the same metal model, the motors are equivalent, etc..
3) The biggest expense, spatial requirements, and driver of cost for the whole system is the required duct runs, so those are the best element to minimize or eliminate. The elaborate duct systems are reasonable in a commercial setting, with multiple operating machines, many tools, many personnel, and large spaces, but in the typical home shop of less than 1,000 square feet, I think the big systems are a waste. The only benefit of the big system is that it is so big that it must become a stationary tool, but it takes up a lot of space, wants 220 power, and is permanently positioned.
4) No doubt, any system needs to be a 2-stage setup (chip separation), with a Thien being a cheap DIY option and the Dust Deputy being the best value for its performance in the ready made category. Again, 1 micron bags are readily available, Rockler just had a $25 sale price for a size appropriate for a 1hp collector, and 1 micron is the only acceptable level of performance, otherwise one ends up with what is known as a "dust pump" and the really gnarly, dangerous fine particulates will make it thru the system and into your lungs.

This all led me to conclude that if I were to do it all over again, I would instead go with 2-1hp portable units (450 cfm), NOT wall mounted unless the pipe run(s) was less than 7' or so. These would be setup as top-mounted, roll-about bin separator units with hoses no more than 6' in length, and positioned on 2 opposite sides of the shop. If one had a true dust beast, then both units could be hooked up in tandem. The very short duct runs guarantee that the small blowers can evacuate big tools, they use a lot less electricity, are lighter, much cheaper, easier to move around, easier to configure, and are a lot quieter than the bigger systems. Harbor Freight just had a 1hp portable on sale for $99, and it was basically the same as the $259 wall-mount Rockler unit. Importantly, Rockler sells all sorts of accessory hoses for their unit, and shows them being used in a very long configuration (>20' slinky hose) which KILLS its suction -- ignore that and use as much rigid pipe as you can and only a few feet of flex hose for very short runs. In the end, one could buy or make (see Mathias Wandel's YouTube vid) a higher performing impeller if you use a separator, and this would boost system performance.

The bottom line is that the 2 unit solution will be much cheaper at only ~$200, plus whatever it takes to make it mobile and add the dust separators, in the long run than some ducted, stationary system, and it will be far more flexible in its application. A final conclusion is in agreement with another member's comment to work more with handtools. This really makes a lot of sense for hobbyists, as it is a much cheaper path that is safer, takes up less floor space, isn't nearly as loud, and altogether eliminates the need for a DC.

[Andrew Joiner]

The cheapest method is to buy any cheap chip collector (bags don't matter) and a high quality respirator. Fine dust will go all over the place. If you want to ditch the respirator then you will want to ensure that no fine dust escapes... this will cost significant money and setup time.

I agree with Greg except I would change it a little.

The cheapest method is a broom and a high quality respirator. Next cheapest is a fan blowing dust away from you toward a leeward window. If you want to try to ensure that no fine dust escapes it will cost significant money and setup time, but no wood-shop is dust free.

[cody michael]

I bought my dust collector used on craigslist, 2hp grizzly 220 motor, seems to work great, I have only used it a little, tested it out on my grizzly planer and it got everything I could see. I paid 125$ for it.

[John Donhowe]

++++ on using a good respirator mask- your lungs and loved ones will thank you. Check out Wood Whisperer for recs.

[Kurt Vilary]

Against my better judgement I purchased the HF DC on sale. The bag is so cheap (5 microns) and It is so poorly constructed that it compounded the dust situation in my shop by dispersing the fine (dangerous) all over the shop. After 1 week my dust collector was covered with fine dust from sanding on the lathe.You could see where the leaks were by the dust trails. After 2 tubes of lexan silicon and a .5 micron canister filter ($180) and much aggrivation the situation has improved dramatically.

[glenn bradley]

I spent more on dust collection than any other tool in the shop (Counting the cyclone, duct system and all the other accessories).

I think I remember a very popular thread a few years back about where did you spend the money in your shop? It was pretty interesting. As I recall several creekers stated they spent more on dust collection than any other tool in their shop (counting all the accessories associated with each tool).

Just my $.02 but to me dust collection is not the item to go cheap on.

Of course it depends on a lot of things like the size of your shop, how long you plan to be in it and the tools you have (and might buy in the future).

PHM

I'm in this camp after doing too little too late and developing medical problems. Whenever anyone asks which tool to buy first, I say dust collector. If you spend more than a few hours a week in the shop making dust, your DC is not the place to cheap out. As I found out, there is no upgrade or retrofit for your respiratory system.

[Greg Peterson]

DC is the single most challenging aspect of setting up a shop. Choosing a unit is just the beginning. Regardless of the unit, you will quickly discover most power tools have very poor DC design. Hooking a 4" or 6" duct to the tool doesn't mean your DC problems are solved. I've spent more time and effort on devising DC solutions than on any other aspect of setting up or maintaining my shop. Every cutting operation, regardless of tool, will require a singularly unique configuration to capture the fine particles. Saw dust is easy to capture, the fines are a lot more problematic.

DC for the drill press confounded me for some time. And even though I have come up with a pretty good DC solution for it, it's still not quite where I would like it to be. But it's far better than anything I've seen.

[Mark Inmon]

I got a wild idea, this is not a cheap way but maybe a way to get a lot more airflow. Buy an impeller from Grizzly "18.5 inch" from Model: G0638HEP and make a custom housing for it and add that to the HF collector. The part is 231.00. The Grizzly G0638HEP collector is over 6000.00 to give you some reference.

[Matt Mattingley]

I got a wild idea, this is not a cheap way but maybe a way to get a lot more airflow. Buy an impeller from Grizzly "18.5 inch" from Model: G0638HEP and make a custom housing for it and add that to the HF collector. The part is 231.00. The Grizzly G0638HEP collector is over 6000.00 to give you some reference. Mark great idea, but wouldn’t it be even better... if you just took your machine out to the middle of a field, With wind beneficial ???

[Brice Rogers]

I don't plan to duct, especially because the shop I'm working out of now is a joke, and I literally have to move a machine to the middle just to use it, and put it away and place another one in the middle to use that. If I can truely get away without the cyclones and upgraded filters, which I don't even fully understand yet, I may do that. I definetely will keep an eye out on CL, but I probably got to research what the heck I want first. I was just afraid to look there because 6 months of tool searching and only bringing in one used tool was painful. I went to the Muncy showroom to buy my Grizzly tools, and I probably should have just picked up a collector when I was there. Too late now...

I bought a 1 HP HF dust collector for $10 because the owner didn't think that it worked. When I got it home, it had minimal suction. When I pulled off the hose going into the DC, I saw why it didn't work. The last 2 feet of hose going into the suction unit was totally plugged. All of the shavings were caught on the input "screen". I cleaned it out and tried it again. Great suction. But within a minute, I had plugged it myself with big shavings.

Planers and joiners generate a TON of big chips and shavings that don't want to go through the input screen or the impeller.

So, I heartily recommend that you put in some sort of pre-filter or separator. Otherwise with a planer or joiner, you'll plug up the input in no time at all. There are tons of plans for Thien baffles. All of them work - - some better than others. But most will collect 99% or more of the big shavings. There are also dirt-simple separators that are basically a sealed trash can with an input and an outlet pipe - - the big things fall to the bottom.

[Derek Cohen]

I bought a 1 HP HF dust collector for $10 because the owner didn't think that it worked. When I got it home, it had minimal suction. When I pulled off the hose going into the DC, I saw why it didn't work. The last 2 feet of hose going into the suction unit was totally plugged. All of the shavings were caught on the input "screen". I cleaned it out and tried it again. Great suction. But within a minute, I had plugged it myself with big shavings.

Planers and joiners generate a TON of big chips and shavings that don't want to go through the input screen or the impeller.

So, I heartily recommend that you put in some sort of pre-filter or separator. Otherwise with a planer or joiner, you'll plug up the input in no time at all. There are tons of plans for Thien baffles. All of them work - - some better than others. But most will collect 99% or more of the big shavings. There are also dirt-simple separators that are basically a sealed trash can with an input and an outlet pipe - - the big things fall to the bottom.

Brice

It is the sub-0.3 micron dust that is the dangerous dust. Ideally, you have to get this at the source. The appearance of "clean" is a dangerous misunderstanding about what dust control really is all about. My view is that unless one can afford to install high quality equipment (3+ hp as well as 6" ducting), then one might as well just consider dust collection to be a broom and use what is adequate for the time being. That means, until you can afford the real thing. And until then, wear a mask and ventilate the shop.

I have a double garage (half for machines; the other half has to park a car at night), only a 2 hp DC plus Super Dust Deputy plus 5" hoses, all kept as short as possible. This is lower efficiency overall by way of dust collection ... and still far better than most here. However I have double garage doors and a back door. These are opened and the workshop is ventilated. Plus I do much of my work with hand tools. My next purchase is going to be a ClearVue set up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Dwight]

I've been thinking about this and looking at prices. I had a 1hp DC but I did not think the amount of suction was sufficient. I believe the "2hp" HF is thus the minimum. It can easily be purchased for $200 - less if you catch it on sale and use a 20% off coupon. It either has to be exhausted outside or you need at least better bags. Bags would be $35 or so. If you put on a cartridge filter, it is another $200. Unless you like cleaning the filter a lot (I do not), you need a cyclone. Often a Thien filter is recommended, I've built one, but it does much worse with fine dust which is what clogs up your filter. A super dust deputy is on the order of another $200. So if you exhaust outside, you can maybe get a drum to collect waste and still have a decent system for $500. But you will spend another 100-200 minimum on piping, gates, and hoses. With a cartridge filter, you are going to be around $700 without piping etc.

So what about just buying a decent 1.5-2hp unit? It looks to me like those start around $1,000. So even with all the upgrades, the HF is cheaper. Even with a Rikon impeller its cheaper. An Oneida mini-Gorilla is about $1,300. A CV1800 (5hp) is about $2,000. You'd also have to be careful to get a cartridge equivalent to the Wynn I'm thinking of.

Then there is the question of what you need. On one side of the camp is the dust allergic Bill Pentz who says nothing less than the CV1800 is adequate (that may be a slight exageration). If you believe that, you should real Matthias Wandel's thoughts, backed up by a doctor. He measured dust levels in his shop and a friends. He uses a "good bag" single stage and has dust levels lower than outside or inside his house (most of the time). I am not in the Pentz camp but I can also see how people go there. It isn't that much more than a much smaller system you don't have to put together yourself.

Last thought, you want a pretty good cyclone and those seem to be tall. If you get a short one, you risk having something functionally equivalent to an expensive Thein baffle. I think a HF with a Super Dust Deputy XL will work better than a lot of systems near $1,000. If you don't want to put it together yourself, maybe a Clearview isn't that bad of an idea. A mini Gorilla is less but can't move nearly as much air.

[Jim Andrew]

I started with a 2hp cyclone after years of doing woodworking with nothing. It seemed ok for a while, but acquired a 3hp cyclone, and now figure that a 3hp cyclone system is the minimum if you are serious about woodworking. Some machines work better than others, but sanders are horrible to collect from. My edge sander is really bad, and I went to the trouble of converting it to a 6"hood. And I exhaust outside, when using the filter on very cold days, seems like the dc is hardly turned on.

[Bill Jobe]

My set up. 2 HP Craftex CX400 (Cannister and 12 3/4" impeller). Super Dust Deputy on 32 Gallon Brute garbage can. 6" hose from DC unit to SDD, 5" from SDD to Junction. Junction connects to 20" planer, reduces to 4" to Table saw and jointer. Ridgid 6.5hp vacuum with Dust Deputy to over head dust collection on Table saw. Also used for Rotor table, Ridgid Oscillating edge/spindle sander, and general clean up. Shop Vac 2.5hp with Dust Deputy for Radial arm Saw. Also connects direct with Ridgid hose to Dewalt Ransom Orbital and finishing sanders. I have fans set up to circulate air around the shop to the overhead air cleaner unit. End result is a shop that shows very little accumulation of dust. No sense of dust in the air, no evidence of dust in my nose, throat etc (mucus buildup). In addition to the equipment, I seldom leave the shop without cleaning it up. I usually do a clean up at a tools once done, router table for example. It does not meet Pentz's standard (almost nothing does, unless you spend $5K plus), but I am confident that I have very good dust control and little health risk.

This seems a bit misleading regarding Bill Pentz's units.
For LESS than $1500 he can provide you with very good dust "removal". Isn't that what you really want to accomplish?
Why collect it in the shop when you can use his 5hp unit with no filters and blow all of the fines outside. With the money you'd save on filters you could run exhaust ductwork a long way away from your shop.
Seems like a better way to me.
But, I barely graduated HS, so.....

[Matt Mattingley]

I built a Pentz’s cyclone from scratch, I built the impeller using my own design from scratch, stainless steel impeller with an aluminum hub . I bought the 5hp SP motor for $325us. I built the whole cyclone from stainless steel. I got a 60 gallon semi transparent barrel for free. I bought 2 Peterbilt transport truck filters for $40us’ish apiece. All In, with out ducting well I can honestly say I spent less than US$750. But I spent the journey...And... I made some mistakes (positive and negative).

After five years, my only regret... is not putting this on a three phase motor with a Vfd.

I started out with a 1.5 hp with bag and bag filter. (I have a basement shop.) I found when I was cutting MDF my smoke detectors would go off. I also found my furnace filters filled with sawdust. Usually I only use a Merv 7. The wife was giving me grief that the dining room table had a visual dust sitting on it when I was a floor away.

Personally, I wanted and needed more power. I wanted and needed a two stage as I hated cleaning the filter bag. I still clean the truck filters using an airline in my back 40, but... I only do this every 7 to 10 barrel fills. It takes me about 5-8 minutes apiece. The filters aren’t working quite as good as they used to be. It has been five years. And at least 10 cleanings. My simple guess would be about 2000 gallons of the dust/savings. But… My smoke detectors have not gone off in five years and neither has the wife! Soon I will need to replace these filters. My filter box never has more than a few chips in it ever... And a little bit of dust. I use my rigid shop vac with just the blue filter (I think this is for drywall dust) to suck out the dust out of the box.

Before my cyclone, I used to be able to turn out the lights in the shop and turn on the flashlight and see what was really floating around. I rarely see this anymore... unless i’m getting a lot of end grain burning from a cutter.

In the end, I think it could’ve bought 4-5 RIDGID 6hp shopvacs(manufacturer ratings, not mine) and put in HEPA filters, all attached to a main trunk.

Maybe there is some food for thought?

This is just my opinion, three-six shop vacs tied together will give you plenty of CFM and water column to boot. The small HEPA filters won’t be cheap. I believe they are about $35 apiece.

Picking/choosing is catered to a situation.

[Larry Frank]

I have my doubts that you can tie the shop vac together and have them work. People have tried putting two dust collectors together and found problems getting it to work. Of course, if you can make it work, it would be interesting.

[Ben Rivel]

Gotta agree with those that said dust collection is the last thing you should go cheap on. I paid about as much for my dust collection as I did for each of my major tools, so to me it made sense. And I must say I have been nothing but impressed and pleased with the investment. My shop is always clean and it makes using each tool that much more enjoyable. And thats not even commenting on the health benefits of better dust collection.

[Patrick McCarthy]

I have to agree with Paul McGaha in post 13 and Glenn Bradley in post 34 and Ben Rivel in post 45- your health is worth the money spent on GOOD DC. Ironically, one of the early "any old thing will suffice" posts was from Kent Bathhurst, who used to frequent this forum and whom I miss, was both knowledgeable and then cantankerous -- - - last picture I saw of him was in another member's shop wearing an oxygen mask and pulling a green tank around. I assume his opinion might be different today . . .

Also, many people refer to the information on Bill Pentz's site, which is good, but seem to miss (or not emphasize) the reason he posted all of that information - - - his experience should make believers out of all of us.

Stay safe, breathe well, patrick

[Matt Mattingley]

For anybody starting out, dust collection it is a second thought.

But after time most (if not everyone) learn the hard way.

I did...

First I bought a shopvac.
Then a 1.5 horse power bag unit.
Then a cannister double blower DC unit (very similar to a shopvac with two motors).
Then I built the built the Pentz Clone.

It is almost impossible to convince somebody that the first machine in the shop should be a high-performance DC.

Maybe I’m wrong! Is there anybody here who has spent $2000+ on a DC, before they purchase their first $2000 worth machines?

[Bill Jobe]

To add to what Matt wrote, with no firsthand experience with cheap and Bill P., from all my reading it has become obvious (to me) that exhausting a DC outside is not only better air, but cheaper, as well.
His filterless 1800 is under $1500. Five hp.
Take a look at the competetion.
You'll find it hard to find a 3hp that is close to what Bill sells. It didn't take me long to realize, the Clearvue is worth careful consideration.

[Jim Becker]

Dust collection is one of the most important functions in a woodworking shop-it's a safety factor well beyond the obvious keeping clean thing. There is no "cheap and proper" solution, IMHO. Cheap compromises proper and vice versa. There are reasonably economical solutions, but what is "reasonably economic" varies with each person.

[Matt Mattingley]

To add to what Matt wrote, with no firsthand experience with cheap and Bill P., from all my reading it has become obvious (to me) that exhausting a DC outside is not only better air, but cheaper, as well.
His filterless 1800 is under $1500. Five hp.
Take a look at the competetion.
You'll find it hard to find a 3hp that is close to what Bill sells. It didn't take me long to realize, the Clearvue is worth careful consideration. yes Bill, exhausting outside what filters might normally catch can be a good idea in some situations. In other situations it could be even more deadly.

Buildings that have natural gas/fuel appliances that are not considered high-efficiency with a sealed chamber’s or natural draft fireplace or airtight wood-stove, you could create a negative pressure in the building great enough to pull exhaust fumes back in. You might exhaust the harmful fine dust but drawing in smoke or carbon monoxide.

[Steve Reich]

Michael:

As you have probably gathered, there is a wealth of knowledge (and opinions) about dust collection. Since you are just beginning to learn about it, I recommend these two articles that are good places to start that I found very helpful in determining options and how to match method with machine and set up. Paul Mayer's "Creating Better Dust Collection" (https://www.wwgoa.com/article/hooking-up-your-tools-for-better-dust-collection/) from WWGOA and "Dust Collection Demystified" (http://eberhardt.bz/GME_Wood_Land/GME_Woodworking_Stuff/4_Information/13_Dust_Collection.pdf) from Fine Woodworking are better places to start than Bill Pentz. I also agree that a Oneida Dust Deputy attached to your shop vac will greatly improve the performance of your shop vac. I have done this, and it works really well with small portable tools like an orbital sander, biscuit joiner, jig saw, etc. Good luck with the new shop.

[Mark Inmon]

With the HF collector as a two stage with a Winn filter the only other thing to upgrade would be the motor and can't find a motor that turns over 3450RPM. Just thinking thin aluminum sheeting to build a roundish frame around the impeller and see if the HF motor could turn the bigger impeller as well as the small one. Just had an idea in my head and seeing if the group thinks the idea is valid.


Mark great idea, but wouldn’t it be even better... if you just took your machine out to the middle of a field, With wind beneficial ???

[Josh Kocher]

Thread resurrection?! 2014!?

DC is important! On the cheap? Can be difficult... but cheap is relevant I suppose... Shopping used, and patience helps.

Since we're all reminiscing...

I started with a used General 1.5hp bag filter and a trash can separator moving from machine to machine - way inadequate though... borderline useless.

I considered upgrading...
Add a SDD and canister filter?
Maybe a 3hp Oneida?

Then a used 2hp Oneida cyclone with more duct and blast gates than I'd ever need came along for a few hundred bucks. Sold the General for what I bought it for...

Performance difference is night and day. I have a small shop and simple layout.

Maybe a bigger shop will lead to a 3 or 5 hp in the future but patience and used will bring in the cheapest results...

[Matt Mattingley]

Dust collection is one of the most important functions in a woodworking shop-it's a safety factor well beyond the obvious keeping clean thing. There is no "cheap and proper" solution, IMHO. Cheap compromises proper and vice versa. There are reasonably economical solutions, but what is "reasonably economic" varies with each person.
It’s easy to preach what you have now, but what did you start out with? I started out with a shop vac, with 10” Dewalt contractor table saw.
Fast forward to the future...
I now have a 5hp bill pentz cyclone and a 5 hp 18”blade, sliding table saw. Sure, maybe I’m pulling 1300 CFM through a 4 inch port and +2000 CFM through a 6 inch port.

I’ve gone through the cheap compromises to end up where I am now. Economically and functionally work hand-in-hand. I would never expect anyone to spend $2000 on their first cyclones before they purchased any tool. In my opinion it’s just ass backwards.

My shop at work just spent +$50,000 on dust collection over the Christmas break. This is only for about 12 ports. Maybe if I’m down in that part of the shop tomorrow, I’ll take some pictures.

[Jim Becker]

It’s easy to preach what you have now, but what did you start out with? I started out with a shop vac, with 10” Dewalt contractor table saw.
Fast forward to the future...
I now have a 5hp bill pentz cyclone and a 5 hp 18”blade, sliding table saw. Sure, maybe I’m pulling 1300 CFM through a 4 inch port and +2000 CFM through a 6 inch port.

I’ve gone through the cheap compromises to end up where I am now. Economically and functionally work hand-in-hand. I would never expect anyone to spend $2000 on their first cyclones before they purchased any tool. In my opinion it’s just ass backwards.

My shop at work just spent +$50,000 on dust collection over the Christmas break. This is only for about 12 ports. Maybe if I’m down in that part of the shop tomorrow, I’ll take some pictures.

No disagreement...but for many of us, we started out with things like we did because we didn't know any better. I actually started out with a 1.5hp Jet DC with bags in a one-car garage shop. I bought it at the same time I bought some other Jet tools that were in my original stable. (Only the DP remains now) I think I owned a shop vac type device then, but I don't recall. It was about 1996 or so. Once I moved to this property, I bought an Oneida 1.5hp Cyclone...the one with the filter inside and later upgraded to an external filter and then a larger unit after buying my J/P. The value in these discussions is hopefully that folks who are new get "more aware" of the importance of dust collection and I think my statement that you quoted is helpful in that regard.

[Josh Kocher]

The dust collection path that many of us have gone down to get where we are costs money.

Turns out that it's cheaper to just buy the destination at the end of the path in the first place if you are committed to woodworking. Doubly so if you are buying new machines along your path and taking losses on resale/tax along the way...

Learn from others...
Buy once, cry once...
That's the cheapest solution.

[Ole Anderson]

I started with a $200 1 hp PennState double bagger and a flex hose. After reading here on dust collection and going through the Bill Pentz stuff, I was convinced that dust collection shouldn't be an after thought but a primary goal in setting up a wood shop. We need to continue to preach that to those that want the cheapest system out there so they have money to buy more dust producing tools. When I retired 9 years ago and had time I upgraded and went with a full blown steel duct system and a 2 hp Oneida cyclone and never had second thoughts. Correction, if I were to do it again I would have gone with the 3 hp unit as the specs are much better, although I am very happy with the direction I went. I get it, sometimes it is the cheapest system or no system at all. Just make sure it is for the right reasons.

[Peter Christensen]

Sometimes it is only the priority of funds. There is money for expensive trucks, SUV's, boats, jet skis, big screen TV's, vacations, cabins, motor homes, guns, jewelry, clothes,,,,, you get the idea. However when it comes to protecting the lungs there is very little money. It isn't the case for everyone but it happens often enough.

There I feel better now.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I read these threads and totally agree on all aspects of removing as much dust as possible for a wood cutting/sanding operation.

I sometimes wish I had found SawMillCreek before I started my serious hobbyist woodworking about 3 years ago.

I missed out on the knowledge of the Oneida and ClearVue systems until about 18 months after I bought my Jet Dust Collector from Woodcraft.

I very quickly realized that a single stage system was a lot of work keeping the bags empty and the filter clean.

I came across the principle of the two stage system and converted my small jet dust collector with the help of an Oneida Super Duty XL cyclone. I was working in my garage and had one two drops with about 25' of 6" plastic ducting. I never clogged up any duct or struggled to extract the sawdust of clippings from the tool.

When I moved to TN, I decided to use 5" metal ducting and now have about 45' of piping and a larger 55 gallon drum as my first stage. The bag on the bottom of the Jet has yet to fill.

But going back to the more professional systems, we are always recommend to get nothing smaller than 3HP and I've read and thought many times that this should me my next upgrade.

With that said, I recently switched out from a DW735 to a A3-31 planer. Although these two tools have the same width of cut, the A3-31 pulls the lumber through much faster and can also take a thicker cut.

I recently planed 1200 board feet of basswood, averaging 9" wide and 5/4" thick through the A3-31.

Where was all the shavings and sawdust? Inside my first stage drum from my 1.75HP system, admittedly if filled 12 55 gallant bags.

After this material was planed, ripped to size, I ran 600 linear feet of this Basswood through my moulding machine and made the louvers for my plantation shutters. Again multiple bags of shavings.

After these heavy cutting operations, there is no real visible evidence that I have just performed these operations.

So sometimes I think we scare people away from a practical home/hobby system that will be more than adequate for the majority of small workshops.

This is how my $600 system ended up. The addition was a $70 55 gallon drum and the Oneida Cyclone.

https://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/Jet%20Dust%20Collector/JetDC1100_1_zpsdajmcscs.jpg

[Jim Dwight]

Chris,

Thanks for a good post. What is the amp draw of your DC (or rated hp)? It sounds like a great setup, and similar to what I am planning (I worked on running the extra circuit today).

Jim

[ChrisA Edwards]

It started out life as a Jet 708659K DC-1100VX-CK 1.5HP running on 110v on a 20A circuit pulling 11A.




https://pull3-thetoolnut.netdna-ssl.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/e/jet-708659k-1_1.jpg