Computer Help

[Jerry Bruette]

Looking to buy a new desk top computer and I'm a little concerned with Windows 8. I read that it's on the third revision and the revisions had to do with making it more keyboard and mouse friendly. Is it really the monster some people claim it to be or have the revisions helped?

Is it possible to buy a machine that can run Win7 now and switch to Win8 later when Win7 is no longer supported or is that just a pipe dream?

The LOML and I have Kindles so I get the tile thing but don't know how comfortable it would be using a mouse.

For the folks that do have Win8 what do you do for email? I've used Outlook Express forever but I guess I'll have to switch to something else.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I moved away from Outlook Express years ago & I'm glad I made the move.
I went to Gmail. Gmail is just so much nicer. I don't have to bother with backing it up or moving it whenever I change computers.

Plus, I can access it from nearly everywhere.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I have a laptop running the newest windows 8.1 and our household has 2 desktops and 2 other laptops running windows 7. If you can, I would suggest you get a windows 7 machine. We can still get them here. Even with the improvements in 8.1, it is still best on a touch screen machine, IMHO. It is fast - faster than 7 on equivalent hardware. Another option is to go for the 8.1 machine and load an add-on that makes it look and feel like 7. That way, you get the best of both worlds. It depends on how comfortable you are tinkering with things.

As for email, that is even more subjective. I have the office suite, so I've been using outlook forever. I dropped outlook express a very long time ago. It worked well when I used it, and outlook serves me well now. I have a gmail account, too, but use if only for some subscriptions that I prefer to keep out my outlook. Gmail works very well as does the current version of outlook online. I have a paranoia about google products, so I would not use gmail as my primary email application. That's just me, though.

[Mike Cutler]

Jerry

No, Win 8 is not an unworkable OS, and I'm a Mac guy at home. Other than the new desktop interface presentation, which is quite different from Win 7, it works fine. Don't be afraid of it. It's a little tough to navigate at first, but you'll get the hang of it fairly quick.
My personal opinion is that if you're going to get a new machine anyway, just get it loaded with Win 8. Why upgrade later and possibly introduce new issues.

There will always be multiple revisions to any OS, it's just the nature of the beast. Currently I'm running OS 10.9.1 on my mac, but prior to that I was Running 10.7 and then 10.8, both of which had multiple OS rev's prior to the next major OS platform change. Mac's aren't immune to the OS updates either. ;)

[Curt Harms]

Yes, you can buy Win7 machines, Win7 is supported with security updates 'til Jan. 2020 I think. You may not find them at Best Buy or Staples, though. MicroCenter has some and I imagine independent shops can sell you machines with Win7 installed. I use Thunderbird for an email client. As long as you don't have to connect to MS email systems Thunderbird should do nicely. If Win8 were preinstalled, I'd probably install classic shell (www.classicshell.net), start8 is another paid but cheap option. I haven't used any of the Windows replacement shells so no first hand experience.

[Chuck Wintle]

Looking to buy a new desk top computer and I'm a little concerned with Windows 8. I read that it's on the third revision and the revisions had to do with making it more keyboard and mouse friendly. Is it really the monster some people claim it to be or have the revisions helped?

Is it possible to buy a machine that can run Win7 now and switch to Win8 later when Win7 is no longer supported or is that just a pipe dream?

The LOML and I have Kindles so I get the tile thing but don't know how comfortable it would be using a mouse.

For the folks that do have Win8 what do you do for email? I've used Outlook Express forever but I guess I'll have to switch to something else.
there are free programs that install on windows 8 so that it will act and look like the traditional windows. Also switch to Thunderbird to get rid of outlook express...it work much better and they keep it updated.

[Jerome Stanek]

Check out the Microsoft page and see how you can downgrade a Windows 8 machine to Windows 7 for free

[Myk Rian]

Is it possible to buy a machine that can run Win7 now and switch to Win8 later when Win7 is no longer supported or is that just a pipe dream?

The last machine I bought came with Win7 installed, and a DVD for Win8. I bought it at Micro Center. I haven't used the Win8 disc.

[Larry Frank]

I am using Win7 and very happy with it. I was not very impressed with Win8.

I am using Thunderbird for email and it is a lot like Outlook and it is free. I also use Gmail for some correspondence.

[David Masters]

You can still find new computers that are preloaded with Windows 7. You'll most likely find them in configurations that businesses purchase. I know that Dell, HP, and Lenovo have Windows 7 systems available for purchase. But if it were me, I would buy the computer that meets your budget and if it comes with Windows 8, install the free upgrade to Windows 8.1. I'm a Mac guy (run it sometimes in a VM on my Mac) and find Windows 8.1 usable and it is easy to configure into something that looks a lot like Windows 7.

I don't use Windows x.x for email, but Windows 8/8.1 doesn't support POP email, which is what Outlook Express defaults to. Windows 8/8.1 supports IMAP only, which most ISP's support these days. If you go with Windows 7, you can download and install Windows Live Mail, which is Outlook Express like and supports POP and IMAP. Do a Google search on Windows email clients and you should find several that work on Windows 8/8.1.

[paul cottingham]

Seriously, if you have to learn a new OS with Windows 8, why dont you consider Linux? Its free, much less prone to virii, and works great. Dont believe all the nonsense about how hard it is to use, or how it is really hard to find hardware for it.

Just a thought.

[Alan Gan]

Seriously, if you have to learn a new OS with Windows 8, why dont you consider Linux? Its free, much less prone to virii, and works great. Dont believe all the nonsense about how hard it is to use, or how it is really hard to find hardware for it.

Just a thought.

I agree, I run Ubuntu and really like it. Sometimes it is like a non domestic car, all the controls are on the wrong side but can be changed. Linux has come a long way from days past, and it is Free.

[Peter Stahl]

I have a new laptop with windows 8. I bought ($7 I think, didn't try a free one) a program to make it look like Windows 7. There is also a Desktop Icon you can click to go to Desktop mode, the program I got just adds all the function you get with Windows 7. I haven't had any problem with Window 8. Also Windows 8 was made for a touch screen for a tablet (e.g. Windows Surface). As far as Linux goes, unless you are a Computer geek it isn't as easy as Paul & Alan say it is.

[Chuck Wintle]

You can still find new computers that are preloaded with Windows 7. You'll most likely find them in configurations that businesses purchase. I know that Dell, HP, and Lenovo have Windows 7 systems available for purchase. But if it were me, I would buy the computer that meets your budget and if it comes with Windows 8, install the free upgrade to Windows 8.1. I'm a Mac guy (run it sometimes in a VM on my Mac) and find Windows 8.1 usable and it is easy to configure into something that looks a lot like Windows 7.

I don't use Windows x.x for email, but Windows 8/8.1 doesn't support POP email, which is what Outlook Express defaults to. Windows 8/8.1 supports IMAP only, which most ISP's support these days. If you go with Windows 7, you can download and install Windows Live Mail, which is Outlook Express like and supports POP and IMAP. Do a Google search on Windows email clients and you should find several that work on Windows 8/8.1.
i just recently bought a laptop from Dell with windows 7 loaded on it. It was just about the only model left with this OS option. Also as was noted in a post Linux has come a long way, Ubuntu and Linux Mint are some of the most widely used now. Installing them is relatively painless and its free. My only problem with Linus Mint and ubuntu is that "some" of the things that may need to be done require an above average computer knowledge.

[Jerry Bruette]

All great advice and very encouraging with Win8. I'm not very geeky and LOML is even less geeky...she still looks for cassette tapes...so I think I'll stay away from Linux products.

Surprised that Mac users are telling me that Win8 isn't so bad. Or maybe they're setting me up for a laugh when I'm suffering in misery with a Microsoft product.;)

The machine I'm looking at is a Dell 8700 series with a i7 processor, and 12G of memory, and 1T hard drive so I'm hoping it'll be big enough and fast enough for a long time.

[David Masters]

Surprised that Mac users are telling me that Win8 isn't so bad. Or maybe they're setting me up for a laugh when I'm suffering in misery with a Microsoft product.;)


Don't get me wrong, I still think that Mac/OS X is the better choice, but your question didn't lead me to believe that you were looking for a Mac recommendation.

[Greg R Bradley]

Microsoft managed to force the consumer stuff completely to Win8 18 months ago. Actual business users know they mostly can't work with that and actual business computers continue to be supplied with Win7. I buy 5-8 per month for customers and all are Win7. They come with Win7 preloaded, a license for Win8 and recovery media for Win7 and Win8. They are installed with Win7, of course, because almost all would be unusable with Win8. Eventually, there may be a reason to use Win8 and that can be loaded at that time - IF they ever make it work properly. Perhaps there will be a Win8r2, if Microsoft continues with its product naming insanity: Server 2008, Server 2008r2, Server 2012, Server 2012r2. Seems MS always releases products too soon and then needs a major update to fix them.

I use HP units. If you go to their website and choose "For Home", you will be led to the consumer stuff that is all Win8. They have short warranties. Firmware and drivers are released for a very short time.

If you choose "For Work", you will be taken to the business units. They have longer warranties and are supported for longer periods. I use the Z series Workstation for more demanding uses. On HP's Workstation section, which only shows the newest models, there is ONE Windows 8 unit and 28 loaded with Windows 7. What does that tell you?

I have to believe that Dell must do something similar. I have been completely unimpressed with Dell but perhaps I'm seeing their consumer units. HP's consumer units are certainly garbage.

As far as Macs, I'm pretty impressed with most of their units both for non-technical users AND high end artwork departments.

[David Masters]

For the folks that do have Win8 what do you do for email? I've used Outlook Express forever but I guess I'll have to switch to something else.

I just migrated my wife's 10 year old computer from Windows 7 to a new Acer computer running Windows 8.1. Although Windows 8.1 comes with a basic email client and contacts application, I found them unworkable. The mail client only supports IMAP, which is in itself okay, but if you are using Outlook Express now and want to migrate existing email to Windows 8.1, the new mail client doesn't support it. Microsoft's advice is to create an Outlook.com account and migrate your mail and contacts there. If you still want to keep your mail and contacts on your local computer, you can download and install Microsoft's Live Essentials 2012, which has a mail client that supports POP/IMAP, and can import Outlook Express mail and contacts. This is what I ultimately did. There are several free email clients from other sources available which might work better, but I wanted something that was basic and worked a lot like Outlook Express.

Some other notes:

- The Microsoft Windows 8.1 backup is broken. It fails when you attempt to create a full system recovery image. I'm testing a couple free backup programs now to see what will work best. Microsoft's backup strategy appears to ship your documents and settings to their Cloud storage service. I want to keep things local.

- The Windows 8.1 upgrade dumbs down the Windows Transfer utility. If you're going to migrate from an XP, Vista or Windows 7 computer, and want to use the Windows Transfer utility, do it before the Windows 8.1 upgrade.

- The Acer came with Windows 8 installed. I had to download and install a little less than 140 updates before the Microsoft Store would let me download the Windows 8.1 update. Windows Update failed on the initial update with 75 updates failed. I had to select only a couple of updates at a time for Windows Update to complete. Expect the updates and Windows 8.1 upgrade to take several hours (five for me).

- The Acer and nearly all consumer computers come loaded with a significant amount of bloatware/crapware. I found a good free utility at www.decrap.org (http://www.decrap.org) that assists with cleaning out the bloatware.

Once you suffer through the Windows 8/8.1 setup, migration, and configuration, I think Windows 8.1 will be fine. It sometimes throws you back and forth between the new and old desktops, but it's not as bad as you've heard. But I'm sticking with my Mac. It was easier to migrate from XP to a Mac than from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1.

[Curt Harms]

I have a new laptop with windows 8. I bought ($7 I think, didn't try a free one) a program to make it look like Windows 7. There is also a Desktop Icon you can click to go to Desktop mode, the program I got just adds all the function you get with Windows 7. I haven't had any problem with Window 8. Also Windows 8 was made for a touch screen for a tablet (e.g. Windows Surface). As far as Linux goes, unless you are a Computer geek it isn't as easy as Paul & Alan say it is.

That could be debated. Young people, preteen who know nothing of computers, Windows, Mac, Linux or other have no problem with modern GUI based Linux. If we expect every machine to look and behave exactly like Windows and have the same flaws and foibles - and most people do - yes it may be difficult. And hardware support can an issue. I research before I buy and have no hardware incompatibilities.

[paul cottingham]

That could be debated. Young people, preteen who know nothing of computers, Windows, Mac, Linux or other have no problem with modern GUI based Linux. If we expect every machine to look and behave exactly like Windows and have the same flaws and foibles - and most people do - yes it may be difficult. And hardware support can an issue. I research before I buy and have no hardware incompatibilities.

It most certainly could be. Now that Microsoft has introduced a completely new GUI with Windows 8 the arguments against Linux have disolved. If you need to learn a new GUI anyways, why pay for the privelege? And Linux is more stable, and much more secure. I seriously put several older clients on Linux, quite a while ago, and they loved it, and had no problems. The real issue with Linux is FUD - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt- created by Microsoft and ironically Apple (and the legion of apologists for both) about how hard Linux is to use. I was in the Tech suppport business when Win95 came out, and the complaining and rhetoric that was flying around about how hard it was to use and learn compared to Windows 3.1 (a laughable assertion) was unbelievable. I made a great deal of money from that.

[David Masters]

The real issue with Linux is FUD - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt- created by Microsoft and ironically Apple (and the legion of apologists for both) about how hard Linux is to use.

There are a couple of things that keep me from recommending Linux vs. OS X or Windows to a general user. One is a concern that although the person's current workflow would fit within Ubuntu's capabilities easily, the first time they want to purchase a commercial application, it's likely they will want to move to the OS that the application supports. Even if you can find something comparable for Linux, they aren't happy. I attempted to move my daughter's school from Windows to Linux, pointing out that there were open source choices for the applications they used. There was no interest even though the savings were pretty big. Their concerns varied, but one was that a teacher would want to use an application for which there were no Linux options. Another is that despite proclamations to the contrary, there is still some work to do to make the desktop experience for the general user seamless. As I was setting Ubuntu up on a netbook to replace XP for my granddaughter, I ran into inconsistent display setting issues because it was just a little outside of the defaults that Ubuntu accepted. Now I could fix that, but it wasn't something that a general user would put up with. When I wanted to install Flash in Firefox, the process to install it was difficult because Adobe doesn't support Linux. Chrome comes with Flash, so I was able to use that. But it's these inconsistencies that gives me pause to recommend Linux to people who are just looking to get work done on their computer.

[Peter Stahl]

I guess if you are looking for free stuff Linux is ok if you are willing to compromise. I use Windows but if we used a Mac at work I would get one for home. Linux is way too much trouble for most people. PC's are aggravating enough. I tried Linux and it was way too difficult to get it running any where near like the XP PC I had at the time. I thought Linux was way too much of a Dud than FUD. If you can't put Linux on a cell phone I don't think you'll get the younger generation to use it. This is just my 2 cents. I'm really not a Linux basher.

[Chuck Wintle]

I guess if you are looking for free stuff Linux is ok if you are willing to compromise. I use Windows but if we used a Mac at work I would get one for home. Linux is way too much trouble for most people. PC's are aggravating enough. I tried Linux and it was way too difficult to get it running any where near like the XP PC I had at the time. I thought Linux was way too much of a Dud than FUD. If you can't put Linux on a cell phone I don't think you'll get the younger generation to use it. This is just my 2 cents. I'm really not a Linux basher.

linux is not that bad once you get used to its little idiosyncrasies but I remember that windows also has a steep learning curve especially when something went wrong with the registry, file system or getting a virus for example. Not trying to defend linux, just trying to say that for someone who desires to learn it can reward the user, maybe. I tries linux a few times and can still remember when it came time to intall it on a partition it stopped and said error, it took me some time to research why so it is far from foolproof and could use a generous amount of massaging to get it up to the level of windows 7, for me the holy grail of windows so far. I refuse to look at windows 8 and, hopefully, MS will skip to the next version by the time I am ready to buy again.

[paul cottingham]

I guess if you are looking for free stuff Linux is ok if you are willing to compromise. I use Windows but if we used a Mac at work I would get one for home. Linux is way too much trouble for most people. PC's are aggravating enough. I tried Linux and it was way too difficult to get it running any where near like the XP PC I had at the time. I thought Linux was way too much of a Dud than FUD. If you can't put Linux on a cell phone I don't think you'll get the younger generation to use it. This is just my 2 cents. I'm really not a Linux basher.
uh, linux does run on cellphones, Android uses the Linux kernel. And you sound an awful lot like a Linux basher to me. Linux is actually as easy to install as any modern OS. And it is faster than Windows cause it isnt as much of a resource hog. And way more secure.
I am writing this on a laptop that had XP on it when I got it. I put Ubuntu on it (it was easy) and it is much faster now. And I dont have to worry about security updates.
Oh and the Flash issue is a real one. But Flash is a mess, and a security nightmare. There is a reaason Apple doesnt support it for Ipads. And a darn good reason not to install it on anything.
I didnt mean to get on a rant here, but it bugs me no end when people say such things about an OS they clearly don't understand.

Oh, and when they claim tails first is the best way to cut dovetails. Thats clearly wrong. :-)

[Brian Elfert]

uh, linux does run on cellphones, Android uses the Linux kernel. And you sound an awful lot like a Linux basher to me. Linux is actually as easy to install as any modern OS. And it is faster than Windows cause it isnt as much of a resource hog. And way more secure.
I am writing this on a laptop that had XP on it when I got it. I put Ubuntu on it (it was easy) and it is much faster now. And I dont have to worry about security updates.
Oh and the Flash issue is a real one. But Flash is a mess, and a security nightmare. There is a reaason Apple doesnt support it for Ipads. And a darn good reason not to install it on anything.
I didnt mean to get on a rant here, but it bugs me no end when people say such things about an OS they clearly don't understand.


Linux has a number of security updates too, but they don't come out just one day a month like Windows. I get fairly regular emails from Redhat on new security updates.

Flash may an ugly duckling, but you would be surprised how many websites still use it. Now, a lot of Flash is used to display ads so Flash certainly wouldn't be missed for those cases.

[paul cottingham]

Linux has a number of security updates too, but they don't come out just one day a month like Windows. I get fairly regular emails from Redhat on new security updates.

Flash may an ugly duckling, but you would be surprised how many websites still use it. Now, a lot of Flash is used to display ads so Flash certainly wouldn't be missed for those cases.
Sorry, didnt mean to imply Linux doesnt have security updates. I meant I dont worry that I am going to find out I have been running an OS with a massive hole in it that Microsoft has known about for months, but didnt patch. I also like the fact that patches comeout when needed, not on and arbitrary schedule.

[Scott Shepherd]

Or you could try a Raspberry Pi with the OS already loaded on it for about $45. That's a stand alone computer that used any HDMI port for the display (plug a tv into it), a mouse, a keyboard, and you're up and running on Linux with internet, office applications, email, etc.

For a LOT of people, a Raspberry Pi would be plenty. Granted, it's not a rocket ship, but how much computer does one need to open an email?

[paul cottingham]

Or you could try a Raspberry Pi with the OS already loaded on it for about $45. That's a stand alone computer that used any HDMI port for the display (plug a tv into it), a mouse, a keyboard, and you're up and running on Linux with internet, office applications, email, etc.

For a LOT of people, a Raspberry Pi would be plenty. Granted, it's not a rocket ship, but how much computer does one need to open an email?

I seriously think a PI is in my future. The average user could happily get by on a Pentium 233 with a pile of RAM runnng a Linux OS. Email, word processor, etc.
I would also like trying PI with Linux Terminal Server Project as a dumb terminal. I bet it would rock. Put dumb terminals all over the house. Run LTSP off a laptop. Coolness ensues, baby!

[Scott Shepherd]

I seriously think a PI is in my future. The average user could happily get by on a Pentium 233 with a pile of RAM runnng a Linux OS. Email, word processor, etc.
I would also like trying PI with Linux Terminal Server Project as a dumb terminal. I bet it would rock. Put dumb terminals all over the house. Run LTSP off a laptop. Coolness ensues, baby!

The new Pi just came out. It's so much better designed that the old ones. You'd be amazed at what you can do with one. I used one for a media server at the office when they first came out. It worked really well.

$35 for the computer. You can't beat that!

There was a Kickstarter project a while back for a board for the Pi that allowed you to use the terminal from your smart phone or tablet :)

[paul cottingham]

Scott, this forum needs a like button!

[Chris Parks]

I know of one corporation still using XP as they know it works and see no reason to change. They are big enough that Microsoft can't ignore them and just go along with the situation.

[paul cottingham]

Hell, there were banks in Canada when I still owned my business still using 2000 cause they are too cheap to upgrade. I bet many still do.

[Brian Elfert]

Hell, there were banks in Canada when I still owned my business still using 2000 cause they are too cheap to upgrade. I bet many still do.

I find it hard to believe that banks would still be using Windows 2000 with the lack of security patches. Companies may still be able to pay for patches to Windows 2000, but my understanding is the cost for just one company can be on the order of a million or millions of dollars per year.

[paul cottingham]

This was quite a while ago, but the machines were so nailed down with policies (i dont think they could even go on the internet...just the banks internal intranet) even the floppies and cdroms were disabled. Security patches were not as important in that environment as they are in the wild. To service even the simplest thing on them was a massive hassle for us. You are correct, tho, i doubt they are still running 2000, but it is not beyond the realm of possibilty.

[Curt Harms]

There are a couple of things that keep me from recommending Linux vs. OS X or Windows to a general user. One is a concern that although the person's current workflow would fit within Ubuntu's capabilities easily, the first time they want to purchase a commercial application, it's likely they will want to move to the OS that the application supports. Even if you can find something comparable for Linux, they aren't happy. I attempted to move my daughter's school from Windows to Linux, pointing out that there were open source choices for the applications they used. There was no interest even though the savings were pretty big. Their concerns varied, but one was that a teacher would want to use an application for which there were no Linux options. Another is that despite proclamations to the contrary, there is still some work to do to make the desktop experience for the general user seamless. As I was setting Ubuntu up on a netbook to replace XP for my granddaughter, I ran into inconsistent display setting issues because it was just a little outside of the defaults that Ubuntu accepted. Now I could fix that, but it wasn't something that a general user would put up with. When I wanted to install Flash in Firefox, the process to install it was difficult because Adobe doesn't support Linux. Chrome comes with Flash, so I was able to use that. But it's these inconsistencies that gives me pause to recommend Linux to people who are just looking to get work done on their computer.

I don't know about all distros but Linux Mint and SolydXK play flash videos with the entire O.S. running off a DVD or flash drive as well as installed on a hard drive. Ubuntu doesn't include flash due to some licensing concerns but installing restricted-add-ons and restricted-extras installs media players and flash. It's a 3 click process from a repository. I've not had to fight with anything. Adobe is not making available current flash releases, the version is stuck on 11.2.something. Flash security updates are provided 'til 2017. By then flash will be irrelevant or somebody will make pepper flash (what Google/Chrome are using) available more widely.

I think though that the key to wider acceptance would be to be able to buy a machine, take it home, plug it in and there ya go. And be able to convince prospective purchasers you'll answer phone calls and be in business in 5 years. 4 onscreen buttons - power, web, email, write a letter. Use a raspberry PI for hardware(?) and sell it for $99. I've seen PC-type machines like this advertised in senior oriented magazines. I wonder if they sell?

[Jackson Phillips]

I know of at least 3 national retail chains that still have computers running Windows 95 on their point of sale computers. All of their employees are trained to use them and their inventory management software only runs on 3.1 and 95. No internet. Their reasoning is that until it's more expensive to fix their old computers than it is to buy a new fleet, all the software needed, and transition to it including training, they aren't going to change. They just buy new monitors every few years so customers don't feel like they're time traveling when they go to checkout.

[Garth Almgren]

I'm still using Win7 at work and at home, and it is what I'm most comfortable with right now. I've used Win8.1 on both my wife's laptop (touchscreen) and at school (non-touchscreen), and I will say that it is better than the first release when it comes to keyboard and mouse support, but it still gives an advantage to those with touchscreens, and it just feels weird to me. As others have said, it is still possible to find PCs that come with Win7, and it isn't that hard to upgrade later if you so choose. Just make sure you back up your important documents/pics/music/whatever before you start an upgrade, either to an external hard drive or to a cloud service such as Carbonite, Box, or DropBox.

I've been using Gmail for my personal email for several years, and I like it, but before that I had used Thunderbird since before it was even called Thunderbird. I greatly preferred Thunderbird to Outlook, which itself is miles better than Outlook Express.

[Myk Rian]

uh, linux does run on cellphones, Android uses the Linux kernel. And you sound an awful lot like a Linux basher to me.
Count me in the same group.
I am computer literate, and have tried Linux, 4 times. Screw it. Too much trouble.
I get enough Linux in my life with my Android phone.
Oh. Linux IS prone to virus, malware, hacking, etc. Just like Win and Macs.

[paul cottingham]

Count me in the same group.
I am computer literate, and have tried Linux, 4 times. Screw it. Too much trouble.
I get enough Linux in my life with my Android phone.
Oh. Linux IS prone to virus, malware, hacking, etc. Just like Win and Macs.

Yeah. Not touching that (for the hundredth time.) Cause its simply untrue.