Books on Laser Engravng?

[David Somers]

I remember when I first started following this forum. I took a few minutes and did a search on Amazon and Google and my library for books on Laser Engraving. I never did find anything. But I also didn't search hard. There was a wealth of info here to work on so that was not problem.

I got curious this evening though and really started digging. It bugged me I had not found anything. I admit....laser engraving is not exactly something you go to Michaels or Hobby Lobby to get going in, but it is not uncommon either.

Nada! I hunted for an hour! Absolutely nada! But I did find a gazillion books and magazine articles on laser engraving handguns and other assorted firearms. And some lovely $800 tomes on various aspects of laser in the world economy. Maybe someday when I have terminal insomnia and gobs of money?

Anyway....is anyone aware of anything out there? A good, general book on laser engraving/cutting as we all use it here in SMC? (or as many of us use it here on SMC I should say. There are those of us who contemplate using it wishfully! <grin>)

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Unfortunately, there is simply nothing like that out there for the lower-Wattage systems like ours (one of the main reasons I started writing mine). Books on the market are geared towards industrial processing, ala multi-kW systems. Those are good for general info, but if you're unable to make the logical leap from industrial to (what amounts to) home-based power levels, they aren't much more useful than light reading.

[Mike Troncalli]

Agree with everything Dan said.

What do you want to know?

History of lasers? - You can easily find that online or public librarys
Basic Theory and understanding of a laser? - Once again public information
How to operate a laser? Well.. What kind of laser, what software, settings, etc....
There are to many brands, software interfaces, material type to use, etc, etc... I would be almost impossible to cover them all, and even then they wouldn't match what you may have sitting in your shop.

Pretty much everything you need to know has already been answered here and on other forums or manufacture websites or if not.. Just ask...

Personally I think it would be a wasted effort to even try to make a book about lasers.

A few months back (many of you may remember) we had a new user join. He wanted to put together a comprehensive cutting chart. Many of the more experienced users here tried to tell him that while a nice idea it just wouldn't work because there were too many factors to consider, machine type, age of tube, software and settings, material type, etc... He didn't want to listen to anybody and I guess finally got mad and left the forum..

I guess the crux of it is good idea, but probably not a great idea..

*************UPDATE***********

Ok, so I was sitting here at my desk about 20 minutes after posting the above response thinking about your idea and came up with an alternative for you..
You have made many posts here on the laser forums without ever owning one. Your posts over time have gone from asking questions to giving advice based on what you have learned here. And of course there have been many posts made by other users that while don't related directly to laser operation, they do relate to the day to day issues of running a engraving operation. Your growth, knowledge and overall help on this forum has been very helpful to many who have read them and for that I thank you..

SO... Why not switch gears a bit and instead of a laser operation book, how about a more broad spectrum book of what you have learned from this forum, overall issues and problems of running an engraving operation, maybe even a bit of tongue and cheek about some of the funny and even scary stories users have posted here and elsewhere..

Just a thought... And can you tell I have had way too much coffee this morning :-)

[Bert Kemp]

I can see it now

LASER's for Dummies by Dave Somers:rolleyes:

Preface: First and Foremost upon receiving your new Laser don't stop by any lakes with it:D

[Dan Hintz]

What do you want to know?

Pretty much everything you need to know has already been answered here and on other forums or manufacture websites or if not.. Just ask...

Personally I think it would be a wasted effort to even try to make a book about lasers.

A few months back (many of you may remember) we had a new user join. He wanted to put together a comprehensive cutting chart. Many of the more experienced users here tried to tell him that while a nice idea it just wouldn't work because there were too many factors to consider, machine type, age of tube, software and settings, material type, etc... He didn't want to listen to anybody and I guess finally got mad and left the forum..

I'll take these in turn...

When people start looking for books in this field, they're often after multiple things, including: 1) settings for common materials, 2) care of the machine, 3) ideas, etc. None of these are bad ideas to write about, but what must be done is help them understand what the questions being asked means in the real world. You have to explain why a material acts the way it does so the user can make the logical leap to the next similar material. You have to explain how something as simple as light smoke around the lens can kill it in short order. And so on. Sure, this material has been covered ad infinitum over multiple forums, but it would be significantly more convenient to have all of that information in a clearly laid out format and in one easily-accessible location on the bookshelf next to the laser.

I recall the thread/user you mention, and his biggest issue was a lack of understanding of the why. Without that, telling him why a simple list of settings is only slightly more practical than useless was an exercise in futility. Too often people think of laser engravers as similar to the printer they've used with their computer for years... draw a picture, hit print, go home. It could be farther from the truth, but not by much. Many salesman push that view, too, because once they have money in their pocket, you're on the hook.

[David Somers]

Thanks Mike and Dan!

Dan....didn't realize you had been working on one! Good for you! Is that still a work in progress?

I guess when I think of a book for lasers, I think along the lines of a book that takes a beginning laser user through the technology and the process. While the forum here is a wealth of information it is a daunting and scattered amount of stuff to paw through and assimilate, especially for a beginner who doesn't have the vocabulary and concepts down to aid them in their hunt for information. And the search function is fairly limited even after you get the hang of it. I was thinking of a fairly comprehensive foundational book on the topic.

I was thinking of something that would explain the concepts behind our lasers, the overall physical layouts of all our machines and how they work, the limitations of them and why those limits exist, and discussions about processes and materials that each of us goes through. Think about the moment you thought..."Gosh, a laser engraver? That could be a really fun and lucrative tool!!!!" And then started hunting for information on them. It is quite a process given the layout of the resources available to us.

After all, it doesn't appear that the technology and process itself has changed in an age. These things have been available to us commercially since the mid 70's. Things have refined certainly, but a Trotec of today is still operating in the same basic manner as the first few Trotecs released, which is pretty much the same as how a Chinese laser functions. It surprised me that in all this time there is nothing out there on this relatively large facet of the business.

If a book isn't the best approach for this perhaps a special segment of our laser forum? A primer in FAQ if you will; basic common questions. How does a laser work? What are the differences in laser tubes? How do you control how it works...Power? Speed? Pulse rate and DPI, etc? How do they all relate? What is the difference between engraving and cutting? What is meant when people talk about Beam shape and depth of field? Why is it difficult to lase a rounded form? What is dangerous to lase? What is tricky to lase? What are all the acronyms and abbreviations; DC, RF, PSU Etc. Stuff a newbie needs to know to have enough info about to start making intelligent searches in the Creek, and to start posting somewhat informed questions. And stuff the intermediate user will start asking too.

Those are the things I was thinking of and have been surprised there is nothing out there like it after all this time. If you think about it....there is a "Strange Scholarship to the Wegman Report for Dummies" available in print of all things? But not something similar covering our lasers? Really <grin> (seriously....that is an official Dummies Guide)

So that is what got me asking this question. That and thinking back on the process I have gone through learning from you folks as I patiently wait for the day a laser enters my life.

By the way....one of the reasons I am so presumptuous as to try answering questions without a laser in hand (usually with a disclaimer I might add <grin>) is that is one of the ways I learn things well. I try to answer a question I hear and see if I am on the mark and can describe it decently. Plus, after all the help folks on the forum have given me I am trying to give back some to the community when I think I can. I hope folks will feel free to tell me publicly or by PM if they think I have gotten too presumptuous about it.

Dave

[David Somers]

Dan,

You said "When people start looking for books in this field, they're often after multiple things......"

Exactly my point! There is a need for a primer. Something that covers the general machines and the process involved rather than a thousand discrete answers like you get from the forum. And as I said....although there have been lots of refinements and improvements in the way our lasers work the basics are the same as when they first came out. This is a relatively mature technology. The alignment process is similar for all of us, the materials and their quirks and dangers are the same, etc. And yes, the settings to engrave in Samoan Mahogany may vary wildly from one laser to the next even between identical machines. But the process for determining the correct settings to engrave a material is the same across all our machines, and the dangers of breathing the smoke from a tropical hardwood is the same for each us along with the need to protect our optics from the smoke and the methods available to us to filter it or blow it out of our shops, and the need to be aware of local regulations when you do that, and the risk from flare ups while you lase, and the absolute need to be on hand while the laser is running, etc etc. But as a beginner if you try to find this info without having the right terms at hand the info is scattered over dozens of posts and sources. And questions are often so specifically answered that it is difficult to take that information and make the next logical leap with it. PVC is bad. OK. But why? And does that have a broader implication?

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Dave:

I nominate you to write a FAQ and submit it to be a sticky. You are well-suited for it and this would be useful to many people. You might consider attaching a PDF of it as well. Also, this will probably make you internet famous.

"If a book isn't the best approach for this perhaps a special segment of our laser forum? A primer in FAQ if you will; basic common questions. How does a laser work? What are the differences in laser tubes? How do you control how it works...Power? Speed? Pulse rate and DPI, etc? How do they all relate? What is the difference between engraving and cutting? What is meant when people talk about Beam shape and depth of field? Why is it difficult to lase a rounded form? What is dangerous to lase? What is tricky to lase? What are all the acronyms and abbreviations; DC, RF, PSU Etc. Stuff a newbie needs to know to have enough info about to start making intelligent searches in the Creek, and to start posting somewhat informed questions. And stuff the intermediate user will start asking too."

[Dan Hintz]

Dan....didn't realize you had been working on one! Good for you! Is that still a work in progress?

I guess when I think of a book for lasers, I think along the lines of a book that takes a beginning laser user through the technology and the process. While the forum here is a wealth of information it is a daunting and scattered amount of stuff to paw through and assimilate, especially for a beginner who doesn't have the vocabulary and concepts down to aid them in their hunt for information. And the search function is fairly limited even after you get the hang of it. I was thinking of a fairly comprehensive foundational book on the topic.

I was thinking of something that would explain the concepts behind our lasers, the overall physical layouts of all our machines and how they work, the limitations of them and why those limits exist, and discussions about processes and materials that each of us goes through. Think about the moment you thought..."Gosh, a laser engraver? That could be a really fun and lucrative tool!!!!" And then started hunting for information on them. It is quite a process given the layout of the resources available to us.

After all, it doesn't appear that the technology and process itself has changed in an age. These things have been available to us commercially since the mid 70's. Things have refined certainly, but a Trotec of today is still operating in the same basic manner as the first few Trotecs released, which is pretty much the same as how a Chinese laser functions. It surprised me that in all this time there is nothing out there on this relatively large facet of the business.

Still a work in progress, with no guarantee I will ever finish to a level I feel comfortable letting out of my hands (it has been a couple of years already, soooo......). There is just a vast amount of info necessary for such a book, and I have it all collected, I just need to get it in book form. The rough table of contents alone is more than 2 pages, and that could probably be fleshed out a bit more. Every day I come across another small tidbit that would prove useful, either as a sidebar or as a chapter's subsection. But you essentially nailed what I have been working on... not just rote facts, but an understandable theory behind it.

If someone would like to front me a $1mil advance, I'd be happy to take off of work and write full time. :D

[David Somers]

Morning Matt!

I was afraid of this reponse! <grin> Have you ever heard the old story about Moose Turd Pie? In logging camps in days long gone one logger was often "elected" to be the cook for the camp. He remained the cook until someone complained about the food, and then that person was "elected" to be the cook. One logger who had been "elected" kept trying to get out of this hated job by making his meals worse and worse. No one rose to the bait and complained however. So he finally went out into the woods and found a big field where moose liked to browse. He found a bunch of fresh meadow muffins and brought them back and carefully baked them into lovely looking pies with delicate golden brown flaky crusts. One especially large and vocal logger came into the mess tent and sat down and ate his first big forkful of this ungulate excrement pastry and choked and sputtered as he swallowed and rooooooared...."My Gaaaaaawd!!!!! This is Moose Turd Pie!!!!" And then his expression grew thoughtful and he said politely...."And its goooooood!!!"

Seriously....This would be a good project. If Dan is working on a book though I would love to see him have the chance to finish it and not undercut him with something in the forum. I don't mean that as in the loggers response to the Moose Turd Pie either. If he has put a bunch of effort into this I would not want to undercut him with another effort.

But...Dan....if help with your effort would be welcome I would be delighted. And not for $$ or a byline. I would just be happy to help. Once I retire at the end of the year (I should have a laser before then too so I would actually start developing a clue!!!) I will have slightly more control over my free time and can be of use perhaps!!

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Seriously....This would be a good project. If Dan is working on a book though I would love to see him have the chance to finish it and not undercut him with something in the forum. I don't mean that as in the loggers response to the Moose Turd Pie either. If he has put a bunch of effort into this I would not want to undercut him with another effort.

But...Dan....if help with your effort would be welcome I would be delighted. And not for $$. I would just be happy to help. Once I retire at the end of the year (I should have a laser before then too so I would actually start developing a clue!!!) I will have slightly more control over my free time and can be of use perhaps!!

Hey, if you want to write about lasers, knock yourself out. I don't claim to have a lock on the subject, nor should I (or anyone else).

I'm not writing for fortune and fame, I'm just an engineer who enjoys getting into the tech side of things. While I would have to charge money for any book I create to cover printing/binding costs, it's not like I'm going to pay my rent. It's a very small/niche market, so if I sold 100 books total I would be pretty darn amazed. But it would be a good point on my resume :)

[David Somers]

Like I said Dan, You are well along that road. Lets get you there and take advantage of all your knowledge and experience and the time you have in it so far! If you would like help getting it done (other than the million dollar thing) I would be happy to help, no compensation or mention needed.

Dave

[Michael Hunter]

In almost every other walk of life - both work and play - it is almost mandatory to go on a course and read all round the subject before you do something.

With a laser you might get 1/2 day training if you buy big-name, or a just huge crate arrive at the door if you bought Chinese and after that you are on your own.

So DO IT! FINISH THE BOOK!!!

On the other hand - DON'T DO IT, because it will make it easier for new competition to get started!

[Scott Shepherd]

There is an older book out there already, you can get it from Johnson Plastics in book or DVD, I think....

294007

[David Somers]

Thanks Scott! (Steve)

Looks like they still carry it. Pg 73 of their catalog at $59.99.
Have you seen it before? Any good?

They also have an interesting looking DVD Titled "Decorating with your Laser." My pea brain immediately develops a vision of laser engravers tastefully used to furnish a room. With Doilies as end tables? With throw pillows as chairs and couches? Perhaps framed and hing on a wall? Remember to hang it on studs though, they are heavy!! <grin>

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Have you seen it before? Any good?

I have it, I've browsed through it a few times. We got it when we bought some materials from a local guy that was going out of business. You can have it. I have no use for it.

[David Somers]

Thanks Scott! That is very nice of you! I was mostly curious if it was a worthwhile product to refer new folks to or not worth the $$?

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Scott! That is very nice of you! I was mostly curious if it was a worthwhile product to refer new folks to or not worth the $$?

I'll let you be the one that conveys that information back to the people :)

[Mark Sipes]

David you should really subscribe to Engravers Journal... a wealth of knowledge. An annual comparison of lasers on the market, new products & materials . Using Corel tips, ... and since you will buying a laser in 5 months or so, you could start that chapter titled " How to select a laser and why".

.

[David Somers]

Thanks Mark! Will take a look at it when I get home tonight! Appreciate the suggestion.

I have a Luthier coming by this evening to get some help turning a banjo tone ring on my lathe. That should be interesting. After that I will check it out!

Dave