Cabinet door joinery question

[Ryan Harrington]

Good afternoon all,
I am working on new kitchen cabinets for my mom and I wanted some opinions on the best way to put these doors together (design is hers). I have made a prototype (see picture). My prototype door was made using tongue and groove for the vertical pieces as well as the horizontal ones. Everything got glued. This door has stayed together and flat in my basement for the past 2 years, so I'm not opposed to making the rest of them the same way. I do, however, think that you all would probably have a better way of doing this.

I should add that I was thinking about breadboard ends. Or perhaps some sort of modified frame and panel?

293976

Sorry the photo is turned sideways. Not sure how that happened.

Thanks,
Ryan

[George Bokros]

Not sure I know another way to assemble the doors. Gluing the four vertical pieces that make up the field of the door to the top and bottom rail can leave you open to splitting as the vertical pieces expand and contract width wise with the changes in moisture.

George

[Rich Enders]

Ryan,

It seems to me that as long as there is some room in the grooves left for the expansion/contraction you are good with the design shown. You may want to glue just the outer 1/3rd of the two outer verticals so that any movement will be forced inward, and thereby the outside dimensions of the door will not change.

[John TenEyck]

Most folks would consider that design a recipe for failure. The main panel is going to expand/contract if/when the RH changes. Gluing it to the end rails will cause something to give/crack/split when that expansion/contraction happens. The fact that they have survived two years in your basement is a testament to good humidity control I would suspect. The conventional way to avoid this is to use frame and panel construction, but that would change the look of your door. To keep the design you have you could use true breadboard ends, however the joint where the "panel" meets the ends of the breadboard pieces will either be short or long depending upon the time of year. Another option would be to modify your current construction: glue and pin the outer two vertical "stiles" to the end rails, but make the inner two narrower and let them float. The gap you have to leave is determined by the MC of your wood when you build the doors and the expected MC extremes they would see in service, and is easily calculated from equations presented by Hoadley in his book "Understanding Wood". You would be creating a sort of frame and panel door while keeping the design aesthetic of the current one, and the joints between the stiles and rails will remain flush year round.

John

[Mark Bolton]

I would agree that likely the only reason the door isnt showing some signs of problems (warping at the least) is because it has never left your shop. You may be better tested by taking it upstairs, out to your garage, or from your shop to the house where the cabinets will live.

The cross grain situation is just asking for problems and the work around's (letting the inner boards float) usually dont work out too well with the design in that you want those v-grooves to stay consistent. They may or may not depending on the board widths and the movement the door see's.

[Erik Christensen]

Your design might be OK if you let the panel float - that means you must have room in the mounting for changes in width - you would want to fit them during the humid time of the year and live with the fact that their will be gaps at the non-hinge edge during dry season (for this reason I would not make then inset). The whole purpose for frame & panel construction is not looks but to allow a large panel to 'float' inside a frame - the cumulative change in width of the narrow stiles then does not impact door clearances

[Mark W Pugh]

Another option would be to modify your current construction: glue and pin the outer two vertical "stiles" to the end rails, but make the inner two narrower and let them float. The gap you have to leave is determined by the MC of your wood when you build the doors and the expected MC extremes they would see in service, and is easily calculated from equations presented by Hoadley in his book "Understanding Wood". You would be creating a sort of frame and panel door while keeping the design aesthetic of the current one, and the joints between the stiles and rails will remain flush year round.

John

Wow, you guys are amazing. This is something I would have never thought of. If the inner panels have grooves at the joints, you would never detect the movement of the panel/s.

[Ryan Harrington]

Awesome. Thanks so much for the advice!

[Lee Schierer]

[QUOTE=John TenEyck;2293808Another option would be to modify your current construction: glue and pin the outer two vertical "stiles" to the end rails, but make the inner two narrower and let them float. The gap you have to leave is determined by the MC of your wood when you build the doors and the expected MC extremes they would see in service, and is easily calculated from equations presented by Hoadley in his book "Understanding Wood". You would be creating a sort of frame and panel door while keeping the design aesthetic of the current one, and the joints between the stiles and rails will remain flush year round. John[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I would do.