Suggestion on chisel/plane iron sharpening outfit?

[Mike Dowell]

My wife is looking for birthday ideas although my birthday isn't until November. But anyway...

I told her I'd like one of those honing guides for chisels that holds the chisel at just the right angle - unless you all think that's stupid and I should just do it by hand in which case I'd respect that advice. Recommendations on this product?

Also, I'd like a nice set of honing stones. I guess a set of 2 but I'm not sure exactly what I would need. I got the idea from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aDPZzMvVTA

Again, suggestions on products?

I'd like to be able to sharpen chisels as well as plane irons (even though I don't have many planes but hey, Christmas is coming too :))

As always, I appreciate the knowledge and experience I find here. This is my go-to resource.

Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

Even though I am an avid hand sharpening advocate, it would be foolish for me to advise you to forget about using a honing guide. I have rigged up my own guides.

A honing guide insures repeatability and can help one to quickly bring up a sharp edge.

Many years ago someone told me about a test done to find the best honing guide. The consensus was the least expensive was actually the best. As I recall that was the eclipse design.

There is some improvement to be fettled into the guide. I think one of the Lie-Nielsen Youtube videos explains the modifications a user can make.

Every honing guide will have its limitations. Eventually you will likely develop the skill of honing by hand.

jtk

[bridger berdel]

what I use the most:

bench grinder
coarse stone
medium stone
fine stone

it doesn't matter too much what kind of stones you choose. I have different kinds, and I tend to drift from one set to the next.

the grinder you can do without if you don't have a lot of things to sharpen, and especially if you buy all of your blades new. if you rehab old chisels and planes the grinder will save you a lot of time.

for coarse medium and fine stones, get what is available to you at a price you can afford. sandpaper on glass (aka scary sharp) is a way to get up and running for $20 or so. diamond stones are readily available and work well. water stones are a bit more of an investment and have their own operational peculiarities, but the people who like them really like them. natural stones run the gamut from some of the lowest cost stones available to some of the most expensive, and price doesn't necessarily correlate to usefulness.

don't get too caught up with trying to buy the perfect thing the first time. just get something and learn to sharpen on it. they all work, and they all require practice. and I vote for learning to sharpen without a jig. it's faster and easier.

[paul cottingham]

Eclipse guide. Construct the jig (for setting the angles) described on Lie-Nielsens web site http://www.lie-nielsen.com/content/documents/instructions/AngleSettingJig.pdf. Hope the link doesn't violate any rules. I'm foggy about them tonight.

I have spent money on more expensive stuff, but I come back to this setup time and time again. For grinding, i would use a coarse diamond stone if I was starting all over, and on a budget. Failing that, buy a good grinder, and make a simple blade support out of pipe and two blocks of wood.

[Moses Yoder]

For sharpening you need 1) something to grind the primary bevel, I use a hand cranked grinder that I have put a nice stone on. You can also use a powered grinder or a coarse diamond stone by hand. 2) A guide (optional) I use the Lee Valley guide that was made prior to the Mk II (SEE HERE) (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078,51868) From what I hear that one works for most situations. 3) Honing stones, I like water stones because they cut fast and are easy to keep flat. For a start THIS SET (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=33026&cat=1,43072,67175,67177) looks like a good kit, King water stones. You would eventually want to add an 8000 grit.

This is too much to ask for one birthday unless you have piles of money. I would suggest listing the items in order of preference and then letting her get one for your birthday, one for Christmas, one for your anniversary, etc.

[Jim Matthews]

What are you using to hone the blades?

[Bill White]

I use the Eclipse style guide with water stones, and the Makita slow speed water stone machine for shaping when needed.
You can (and will) get as many opinions as there are posters about sharpening.
My thoughts are to keep everything simple.
Bill

[Mike Dowell]

Thanks for all this input! I'll have to take some time tonight to look into each and every bit. I do have a bench grinder (cheap harbor freight but it works).

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for all this input! I'll have to take some time tonight to look into each and every bit. I do have a bench grinder (cheap harbor freight but it works).

Mike,

Do you have any sharpening equipment other than the grinder?

Sometimes it is best to build on what you already have.

To me it seemed water stones were a bit expensive. When it came time to buy some quality Arkansas stones, imagine my surprise to find they can be just a pricey.

Any cheap solution is likely to be a false economy. Scary sharp is less expensive to start, but the abrasive sheets have to be replaced all the time and the expense builds.

A few here do use multiple methods to maintain edges on a variety of tools. For me a 4' section of 80 grit on a granite slab works great for establishing a flat bevel or taking care of the back side of a blade.

For most work, water stones are the first choice. The problem is my shop isn't heated and for a couple of months in winter water freezes in the shop. Then the oil stones get to stand up and prove their worth. They also get used in the summer.

Most of my diamond stone use is in the kitchen for knives.

There really isn't a best way when it comes to sharpening other than what works best for you and your needs.

jtk

[ian maybury]

I'm relatively recent recruit to higher end sharpening Mike, although I've been hand sharpening since I was a kid for DIY/construction type work.

Another here strongly in favour of a honing guide, a set of waterstones and following something along the lines of the Lie Nielsen or Charlesworth routine - the sort of edge that this can deliver with relatively little beyond taking reasonable care is remarkable.

The critical step prior to this in getting a new blade set up is flattening the back, and getting an accurate bevel of the correct angle on - if this is done right (the surfaces are flat and fine enough) then the work on the waterstones is a breeze. If not, then it can be hard labour - and it's possible to badly damage a tool.

One option is to buy accurately made stuff, but the day must inevitably come where more fundamental re-shaping is required. There's quite a few ways of getting this set up done, and the devil tends to be in the detail. This area is well worth putting lots of research into - best of all by seeing how others do it if you can get access to a few with experience...

[Pat Barry]

"Suggestion on chisel/plane iron sharpening outfit?"

I'd go with leather. Those things can get sharp.

[Graham Haydon]

I think if you like the look of the LN video then go with what they show. I have very limited experience with waterstones but FWW had a write up on some waterstones available from the chaps who made the video http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/product-finder/ohishi-waterstones.aspx . I think as mentioned already that LN use the "Eclipse Style" honing guide and have a video on how to improve it a bit.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I own a Veritas Honing guide, I am inclined to say that it is this one (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1) but the image looks a bit off to me (mine is older, so I suspect a new model).

For less money, you can use an Eclipse guide, or something like thishttp://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=60311&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1

I believe that Rob Cosman likes free hand and he has a guide that is similar to a triangle with a magnet on it. He calls it an "angle trainer" or something http://www.robcosman.com/tools_angle_trainer.php but I have never used one of these.

My preference is to use my Tormek to produce a hollow grind and then I can free hand on my water stones for touch-up very quickly. If I were starting fresh, I would contact Stu and purchase a nice set of stones (but I already own a bunch of stones, well, not compared to the hard core stone owners like Mr. Weaver).

Note that I started using Sand Paper rather than water stones. Last I looked, they called it "scary sharp". I put my sand paper on my flat granite plate (many people like to use glass) and off they go. Entry price is low, but, the consumables add up over time. The nice thing is that you can get a feel for the hand sharpening without the cost of a stone and quickly decide if it will (or will not) work for you.

When I free hand on an edge that is not hollow ground, I have a tendency to roll the edge so it does not get sharp.

Another option is to sharpen with diamond paste. I purchased a bunch to try, I just never got around to it. I really should. I do own diamond plates. I know at least one person who only uses diamonds for sharpening (or at least he claimed that once) and he does some professional sharpening.

What you need is probably highly dependent on what you need to do. If things are already mostly ready to go, you only need enough to do final prep and honing.

[Mike Dowell]

Well, I've got a set of chisels and a couple of planes so I've not much sharpening to do.

I would think a bench grinder would not give a flat bevel due to the fact the the grinding portion are round wheels. Also, the general 'shape' of my chisels is already there as they came that way. I just need to flatten the bottom flat part of the chisels and sharpen. I feel really dumb asking about this because I'm not sure what the terms are when we are talking about this. Either way, I don't have 'a lot' of sharpening to do, more maintenance than anything but my store bought chisels didn't come with the flat bottom (perfectly flat anyway) like they show in that video I posted. So, they need to be worked a bit.

[bridger berdel]

The grinder is for the rough shaping, where the hollow bevel doesn't matter.

With only a few tools to sharpen you can concentrate on technique and see results right away. Just get some stones, or sandpaper and glass, or whatever you find on sale, or however you end up choosing and have at it.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I feel really dumb asking about this because I'm not sure what the terms are when we are talking about this.

Just so that we are clear up front, There are not dumb questions. Well, maybe there are, but I rarely see them if they are. I have certainly asked questions that make me feel dumb.... But, I often find that when I ask a 'dumb' question, many others say "hey, I wanted to know that too." I failed to ask a dumb question once and received a flying piece of plywood in the gut as a reward for being dumb enough not to ask.


I would think a bench grinder would not give a flat bevel due to the fact the the grinding portion are round wheels.

I would use the term "hollow grind" and you are correct, it would NOT leave a flat bevel. The part that must be flat is the back. You cannot flatten the back on a grinding wheel of which I am aware. I prefer water stones for this, or, diamond plates if things are really bad. I am working on some chisels that are in really bad shape, so, I will use a bench grinder to grind back the edge to get past the "bad parts".

The biggest danger with a standard bench grinder is that you might over-heat the edge and remove the temper (bad, very bad idea). I have a slow speed bench grinder, which can still easily over-heat the blade.

The nice thing about the hollow grind on the bevel is that it makes it easier to hand sharpen without a guide. These sharpenings are then faster because you do not need to work on the entire bevel. I suspect that people that do not hollow grind usually use a micro bevel (do you know this term?).



So, they need to be worked a bit.

Too bad you don't live closer, I would say grab them all and bring them over and we can have a sharpening party. So, the real question is.... Where do you want to start? Do you want to start with:



Water stones
oil Stones
Arkansas Stones (is that the correct term)
Sand Paper
Diamond Plates
Diamond paste on some medium (MDF, a plate, hard wood)


I assume that with the primary bevel being generally set already, you do not need to use the bench grinder on it at all.

The process is the same for all of them. Flatten the back first, then work on the bevel.

[Mike Dowell]

I believe I'll go with a set of water stones as this seems to be the favorite here. Thanks for the input!