Combination Machines... Thoughts, anyone? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Bob Borzelleri

07-04-2005, 3:43 PM

I have this sofabed thing in my head about implements that try to pack multiple functions into one box. Perhaps someone makes a sofabed that is a good sofa and a good bed, but I haven't come in contact with such a product yet.

Then there is the receiver vs. separates thing in audio/video. The integrated units tend to create more heat and, unless the design has accounted for the added heat, component life might be shortened. Having a separate unit go south doesn't necessarily put the entire system on hold as would be the case if a receiver, for example, started to malfunction (yes, I have separates in my media system).

If I apply all this conventional wisdom to woodworking machines, my initial thought about a combo is just the slightest bit cautious. Are they reliable tools that perform in a consistently repeatable manner? Perhaps having individual motors for saw, shaper, and planer/jointer/mortiser just might be the key to making a combo unit functionally equivalent to dedicated purpose machines, but there might be other factors at play here that speak to whether combo machine users feel they have any built in compromise as a result of their choice to use a combo.

I should point out that if I were wanting to start out with a effecient and functional design for a woodworking shop, having things like common slide mechanisms for the saw and shaper and an integrated jointer/planer design would start off pretty high on the list of desired elements. Well thought out dust control (only recently an area of focus for many "American" tools), would be another important feature. In fact, when I look at the various videos showing the functionality of the combo machines, I can't help but wonder why they have not defined the model for woodworking machinery in this country. Cost is certainly a significant factor, but as a nation, we are pretty high up there in disposal income, and if they are a truly superior design and likely to shape a market anywhere, one might think that the US would be a likely place for that to happen.

I would go out on a limb and presume that owners of combos make up something in the single digit % of American woodworking shops. Maybe I'm way off here, but if the trend in tool ownership, usage and potential purchases discussion here at SMC is any indication, I have to think that combos are relatively few and far between.

I'm about to begin what might be a long fact gathering effort that might end up with me trying to figure out how to unload a 1/2 ton box into my shop. If I end up with a combo, it might be a saw/shaper or it might be the whole shooting match with the jointer/planer/mortiser; or, I might stick with separates. The jury has only just begun to hear the testimony so it is about as far from a verdict as it can be.

I'm interested in hearing from folks who have combos; if anyone chose a 2 function over a 5-6 function and why. How about anyone who went from separates to a combo and then went back again.

At some point, I am going to begin to focus on specific makes and features, but the first question is whether to head down this path in the first place. Thanks.

...Bob

Michael Perata

07-04-2005, 3:57 PM

Bob

I have a MiniMax CU300 Smart (5 function). If I had the space I would split all five functions, but they would still be MiniMax.

But, alas, I don't have the space.

Dennis Peacock

07-04-2005, 4:11 PM

I have a Robland X31 - TS, Shaper, jointer, planer and horizontal boring. While the X31 is not the cream of the crop, it's still a generally good machine. The only thing that I have not liked about the machine is the TS fence. It's fair at best but it does work.

It's a 12" jointer and a 12" planer. One 3HP German motor for the TS and 8 ft sliding table, one 3HP German motor for the shaper and one 3HP German motor for the jointer/planer and horizontal boring.

If space in your shop is a limiting factor, then a combo machine of good quality is a very good choice. However, it does make you think your working processes through a bit better so you will do each part of the process at one time...meaning, plane all the boards for your project at once and etc.

So there you have my 2¢ on this topic. :D

Mark Singer

07-04-2005, 5:30 PM

I would only get one if space is a problem

lloyd morris

07-04-2005, 5:41 PM

Bob,

I am looking pretty hard at the Mini Max FS 35 Smart which is a combo planer/jointer with excellent reviews by folks on this website. It is not a five function plus machine but it would take up considerably less space than my current Delta 8 inch jointer and Delta 15 inch planer. Also putting everthing else on mobile bases really helped out in my two car garage workshop.

The general thought when I asked this question a few weeks ago on this forum was if you have the space go with individual tools. I actually got the same advice from my Mini Max Representative as well. Hope this helps.

Lloyd

Norman Hitt

07-04-2005, 5:56 PM

I have a combination Jointer/planer/mortiser machine, but, I don't think the full 5 function machine would fit my work habits, especially since I have the space for separates. This does not seem to affect some folks, however, but I guess they are more organized than I am, :D or maybe don't have more than one project going at a time. I use router tables and don't have a shaper, but if I ever felt the need for a shaper, I would "Possibly" consider a combination saw/shaper, mainly because of the slider function and the space savings of two in one for this function.

Jim Becker

07-04-2005, 6:36 PM

I have a Mini Max jointer/planer combo to compliment my cabinet saw and Mini Max band saw. I really like it "a whole bunch". My shop cannot accomodate a 5-function combo space-wize, so what I have fits the bill perfectly. I also jump a lot between the jointer and the table saw, so having these functions separate is more convenient for me.

Greg Ladd

07-04-2005, 7:34 PM

John Renzetti

07-04-2005, 7:47 PM

Hi Bob, Combination machines(2,3,4,5 function) have been around for a long time. I believe that there is some very old heavy iron of American manufacture that were combination of some type. One I remember was a bandsaw/table saw combo.
The combos were and possibly still are popular in Europe. With space being a premium, there was a need for a machine that could combine a number of functions and occupy a small footprint. Torben from Laguna Tools is certainly the person who really brought and promoted the combo into the USA with the Robland X26 and then the X31.
My first set of combos were the 1998 Felder 16" J/P and the KF7F sliding tablesaw/shaper. Last year I upgraded to the Format saw, Felder shaper, but stuck with a combo in the jointer/planer area with the 20" Felder Format Dual 51.
Whether a full combo, a seperate saw/shaper and J/P, or slider, shaper and a J/P are best for you will depend on a number of factors. One of course is space. There are a number of superb woodworkers who use a full combo in their shops. Yeung Chan has a Felder CF741, and Kelly Mehler uses a BF741X in his shop. If you have the space I feel a saw/shaper and j/p provides more versitility without taking up much more space or costing a lot more.
One downside with the saw/shaper is if you plan on doing a lot of moulding or raised panel doors. Here you will find the combo saw/shaper not really suited for this situation. Shaper setup can take even an experienced person almost an hour for a difficult profile. If you are doing this on a regular basis you won't want to have to need to cut something on the saw. If you are a non pro or even pro shop not doing a lot of this sort of shaper work then the saw/shaper combo will work fine.
One machine that seems to work in most shops is the Jointer/planer combo. Here you get a nice, 12, 16, 20 (or even 24" if you want to bring in a Hoffman from Germany), jointer and planer for a relatively low cost as compared to the equivilant seperates. Changeover is really not an issue as far as I'm concerned. It takes about a minute and if that is too much time for some then you are in too big a rush. I like to take the time during the changeover to gather thoughts and think about what I'll be doing next.
You mentioned the sofabed analogy in the beginning of your post. I really don't think it applies to modern European combos. I believe a lot of the bad publicity for combos came from the "love it or hate it" Shopsmith. I know some guys will swear by it, but a lot also swore at it.
take care,
John

markus shaffer

07-04-2005, 10:59 PM

Bob,

I have two Felder combo machines. Saw/shaper and jointer/planer. I wish I had been smart enough to buy them when I first equipped my shop. I too wondered what comprimises were made in combining two machines into one. After using them for over a year now, I can say I wouldn't trade these machines for anything but bigger ones. Okay, I can live with a 20" jointer/planer, but the only thing I don't like about my saw is that I didn't get a bigger slider. As John points out, the shaper function is not super quick to change over to, but for the cost, I felt it was worth it. The price difference in the saw without the shaper and with was around $2500. You're not going to get a Felder quality shaper with a sliding table as a stand alone machine for that kind of money period.

Also as John pointed out, the changeover time on the jointer/planer is minimal. One minute. Sharing the cutterhead between the two machines is not a problem at all and you're certainly not going to find a 20" jointer and 20" planer in the same price range as a combo. The machine I have is built like a tank and weighs nearly a ton. For added cost, you can equip it with larger motors. I stuck with the 5.5hp base motor and have not had any problems with the machine at all. I ran some 19 1/2" wide mahogany through it with no problem. Nice feature on the Felder is the ability to easily add a power feeder to the jointer. Like I said before, I wouldn't part with this machine unless someone offered me a bigger one.

Dust collection is well thought out and integrated into the machines pretty flawlessly. Sure, you're never going to catch it all, but with the right dust collection (cyclone) you're going to get most of it.

Both of the machines I have I think are far superior to anything that American companies have even dreamed of making. There will be those who argue that older American machines were extremely well built and I wouldn't argue. But these days it seems the Powermatic 66 is what the average woodworker strives for in a saw and while it's a good machine, it does not compare at all to a European saw. I sold a PM66 to get the Felder so I feel that I am qualified to make this comparison. The only recent innovation that I wish were added to my saw would be the brake system on the Sawstop machines.

If you're limited in space, these machines are really worth looking in to. Especially the jointer/planer. They are expensive and depending on what you look at especially compared to Delta/Jet/Powermatic. You may need 3-phase power which can add more to your final cost as well, but these are machines that will likely outlast you. If you're an average woodworker not running a large production cabinet shop, I don't think you're going to find better machines for the price than what Felder and Minimax are building these days.

-Markus

Chris Padilla

07-04-2005, 11:16 PM

I visited a fellow SMCer and professional ww'er last summer and saw the size of his garage that he worked out of and then I saw his 12" Hammer J/P and was very impressed with its compactness and how nicely it fit into his garage. I think I had finally found my answer to somehow fitting a jointer and a planer (of "decent" size) into my 2-car garage. I was bitten by the bug and ended up ordering an FS-41 Elite--this is a MiniMax 16" jointer/planer. Although I could afford a separate jointer and planer of those sizes, I simply did not have the room to accomodate what I really wanted. The combo machine answered my needs very well and it has been a pleasure to use.

Charlie Plesums

07-05-2005, 12:28 AM

I have the 5 function large MiniMax combo and love it. When some people hear combo, they think Shopsmith, which seemed to be a compromise on all functions. The MiniMax, Felder, and other high end combo machines are definitely high end machines, first and foremost, that share some footprint with little or no compromise. When I retired to full-time woodworking, the upgrade to MiniMax precision made the quality of my work jump tremendously, as well as increased the productivity dramatically.

My shop is a 2 car garage, that occasionally still holds one car. As a one-person shop, I rarely find the combined machine a problem. And there is no way I would have had room for separate 16 inch jointer, 16 inch planer, slot mortiser, shaper with sliding table, and 12 inch saw (with scoring blade) and 8 1/2 foot slider. The outrigger on the slider goes to 10 1/2 feet, but I can only put about 3-4 feet on the other side of the blade before removing components (like the 6 foot long jointer fence) becomes a problem.

Precision is amazing. During a demo I was challenged to do a five side cut. In simple terms, it measures the error accumulated through 4 right angle "miters" and about 8 feet of ripping. I had calibrated the machine to about .007 inches error in that test, but when I ran the demo, I was lucky... the error was under .0001 inches.

A few days ago I built a six sided table, 40 inches across. When the sides were assembled, I was disappointed - there was a gap in the outer edge of one of the joints... wide enough to get a sheet of paper about 1/2 inch into the crack.

Did I say I liked my MiniMax combo?

Michael Sloan

07-05-2005, 10:55 AM

Hi Bob,
I have an MM CU300S 5 function combination. Before that, I had a little Inca J/P. Chock up another vote for GOOD Euro combination machines. A couple of observations:

1) A good combination jointer/planer is a wonderful machine. It takes up half the space of a pair of good seperates. You can also get much better quality for the $ with the J/P than with seperates, since you only pay for one cutter head, one motor, and one drive setup. You also get a perfectly matched pair.

2) The next big advantage of the Euro Combinations is the slider. It will fundamentally change the way that you work for the better. While not limited to combination machines, having one slider for two machines (saw and Shaper) provides excellent economy in both costs and space. However, I would want a slider regardless of whether I had a combination machine or not.

3) Finally, most of the Euro combo's have true riving knives that follow the blade, and well designed dust collection, which make for a more pleasant and safer experience.

If I had the space, I would get a seperate J/P and saw/shaper, although I really don't find the two units to conflict too much on my MM.

lloyd morris

07-05-2005, 6:14 PM

"The next big advantage of the Euro Combinations is the slider. It will fundamentally change the way that you work for the better. While not limited to combination machines, having one slider for two machines (saw and Shaper) provides excellent economy in both costs and space. However, I would want a slider regardless of whether I had a combination machine or not."

I was wondering what are the primary advantages to having a slider? Other than helping with large sheet goods or long pieces is it safer because you can keep your hands farther from the sawblade? Thanks in advance.

Lloyd

Bill Grumbine

07-05-2005, 7:10 PM

Hi Bob

I went Euro last November when I brought home a Mini Max CU 300 Smart. I thought that I had reached the apex of woodworking machinery when I acquired my old Delta unisaw and 8" Rockwell jointer. But, I have a small shop, and when I started looking at combos, the MM machine looked like a good move for me. I added the 8 1/2' slider to mine.

I will say this. At this point I would buy it again, but for a while I was not so sure. There is a definite learning curve and things are different on this machine than they were on all my other machines. It is very nice though, to have the saw, jointer, and planer all moving in the same direction, and changeover time from function to function is not any more time, and is probably less time than it took me to clear a space to use the other stand alone machines. Handling sheet goods is a lot easier, dust collection is better, and the rest is starting to fall into place for me. One more thing though - I don't know why they bother to translate the manuals into English. There is no more usable information than if they had left them in Italian.

Bill

Bill Grumbine

07-05-2005, 7:17 PM

I was wondering what are the primary advantages to having a slider? Other than helping with large sheet goods or long pieces is it safer because you can keep your hands farther from the sawblade? Thanks in advance.

Lloyd

Hi Lloyd

You already mention the primary advantages to the slider. I put the 8 1/2' slider on mine. In the old days (pre-combo) when I had to shove a piece of plywood through my unisaw, SWMBO was recruited to catch it on the other side. There was always lots of hollering to be heard over the sound of the saw, concern for the piece shifting, etc. It was never fun. She watched me put the first sheet of plywood through the saw after we brought it home and declared it worth it all since she got to watch and not catch!

However, it is also great for straight line rips on waney edged boards. One pass and it is edged, as opposed to multiple passes through the jointer, and I can do up to 8' long easily. Cutting odd shapes is easier. Draw a line, line it up, clamp it down, and push. And of course, any piece that is clamped properly is safer and easier to cut, with less chance of messing it up.

Bill

Steve Rowe

07-05-2005, 8:59 PM

Bob - I have a Felder CF741 combo. The machine is very reliable, repeatable and settings stay put. I really like this machine but in retrospect, I probably should have gone the separate saw/shaper combo and jointer/planer combo route. My primary purpose for going the combo route was to recover shop space. I replaced 5 stand alone machines but, am not real sure I saved a whole lot of space as that 9.5 foot slider needs a lot of room front to rear and at the side. It does have a lot more capability than what I had before since I didn't have a slider so it was somewhat of a tradeoff. If I had to do it over again, I would just with two combo choices in lieu of the one.

With respect to unloading, hire a machine rigger to do this, it is well worth the cost and piece of mind. My machine weighed in at 3400 lbs and is something that I was totally unwilling to move without a professional. Costs for this will vary by area, but mine cost a total of $110 which was for the 2 hr minimum for an 8000 lb forklift with operator.
Steve

lloyd morris

07-05-2005, 9:05 PM

Bob Borzelleri

07-05-2005, 9:20 PM

Well, my normal inclination is to thank folks sort of individually (as in, "thanks, Steve, Bill, Lloyd, Michael, Charlie, Chris, Markus, John, Greg, Jim, Norman, Lloyd, Mark and Dennis...") with a brief comment or two in response to each person's offering. In this case, however, I'd probably be here all night.

So, I will say that the input you guys have provided is not only appreciated, but it has greatly assisted me in better framing the questions I have begun to ponder.

What I have taken from this discussion are the following:

1. The initial ostensible reason behind thinking about a combo appears to be to save space in a smaller shop setting.

2. While saving space might be what got some folks thinking about combos, there also seems to be a methodology or approach to work that comes with a combo that some folks prefer and others do not.

3. Saving space begins to take on a different meaning when sliders and outriggers grow exponentially.

4. Perhaps the single most valuable "combo" benefit is using the same sliding table for both the saw blade and the shaper.

5. Having a saw/shaper with a slider and a jointer/planer as a distinct unit just might be the best approach for me given the size and configuration of my shop.

I'm going to print all this stuff out and continue to mull this over. I just got off the phone with a friend who suggested that we shoot over to Vegas toward the end of the month. While my inclination to move slow is currently in control of this process, who know what might happen when I'm immersed in the sin capitol of the western world. Thanks all again. This has been helpful beyond my hopes.

...Bob

Jim Becker

07-05-2005, 9:39 PM

Number 5 is the same assessment I ended up with, although I've never executed on the saw/shaper part...another "little project" is in progress that financially precludes even thinking about it!. But as I stated in my previous, my method of work has me bouncing a lot between the jointer and the table saw, so having those two functions on separate platforms is best for me. Not so for others...it's all about how you work.

Nick Mitchell

07-05-2005, 10:35 PM

Paul B. Cresti

07-05-2005, 11:46 PM

Another huge benefit to a full combo like a Felder is that it actually makes financial sense. Now I know this doesn't sound right but.....If you bought 5 separate machines of the same quality and capabilities of the Felder 16" combo you'd spend a great deal more than the asking price of a full combo.

Nick,
You had to say that blue/green word didn't you? my next door neighbor's hermit crab knows what you own, geez man :D...... anyway Bob here is my take on your dilema.

I own a sliding panel saw, shaper and jointer/planer, bandsaw....... and would not have it any other way. (by the way they are all MM, except for one). I have these machines because I am doing this professionally. They are most definately not cheap and involve a serious investment of capital and future capital :eek: My upgrade began with the shaper, because that is what I needed at the time. Then came the J/P because I wanted the longer jointing capacity. The matching planning was a bonus and i did not really buy this idea of a j/p until I got it and put it into use. The sliding saw came last and then came again once more when I went to a 10.5 ft slider. In hindsight I would have saved a large sum of money by getting a full combo but I would have llost some of my flexibility. If your are a very serious hobbiest this may not matter. When I am milling something more often than not find myself "doing the rounds" in my shop. One example: I am making some custom Architectural molding, step 1 shaper (I use larger pieces of stock for safety and ease of handling even though i do have a power feeder), step 2 to the bandsaw and rip that profile off, step 3 joint the stock , back to step 1 and repeat cycle. I also use this "method" fo doing cope and stick or tenoning (for very large pieces) but this time step 2 may be cross cutting on the slider.

You could not perform these "rounds" on a full combo as i have described because you can only perform one function at a time and some functions will get in the way of the other ones you have set up. That being said there are many people performing incredible work on their full combos. They have adapted their own "rounds" method and it works well. Combos also will provide you with very accurate (assuming you are looking at ones like MM, Felder, Knapp...) machines at some savings $$ not necesarilly a huge amount of space savings though but in some cases yes. Remember these full combos require full access around the entire machine so you do need an open area for them to work in. I could go on and on but I think you catch my drift.

I will leave you with one parting thought. If I had to give up all my machines due to financial reasons I would never go back to and "American" style machinery, way too antiquated. Guess what I would get ? You got it a full combo!

Charlie Plesums

07-06-2005, 1:46 AM

In defense of "doing the rounds" on a combo... such as Paul descirbed...

On my combo I can use the shaper, and with a twist of one switch (two clicks) can use the saw (without even needing the bandsaw). Rips up to about 4 inches wide (ample for most mouldings) can be done with the shaper hood in place. The regular saw probably doesn't require jointing, but the jointer is available with two more clicks of the same selector switch. Admittedly I can't as easily get to the planer (the dust collection for the shaper interferes with lifting the jointer table to use the planer), but it is four clicks of the same selector switch to be back to using the shaper. None of the setup (fences) have to be reset; no tables changed, etc. to make this (round) and many like it.

Can small pieces be cut on the slider?

Absolutely. I had what Norm calls a cross cut sled on my regular table saw that I used for most cross-cuts... the miter gauge was rarely used. The slider fills the function that the sled performed.

Is space the only reason for a combo?

In my mind, quality is the primary reason. I can make cuts far better than before, on both sheet goods and small pieces. The slider is a major contributing factor, but the saw is super accurate also, and a lot safer. If I start with properly jointed (flat) boards, the planer doesn't have snipe. And thickness is predictable to less than 0.01 inches (I wish the digital scale had three fraction digits rather than just two). I don't know what separates I would choose that give me this kind of accuracy, and secondarily, if I did find the separates, I doubt if I could fit them into my two car studio.

Space required for a slider...

Some are only about 5 feet long. Sure beats no slider, but mine is 8 1/2 feet, and Paul just upgraded to over 10 feet long. Note that an 8 1/2 foot slider requires about 17 feet clear to move from one extreme to another. In addition to ripping, you might want to cross cut that large sheet or some heavy boards, so the outrigger, attached to the slider, extends 6 to 10 feet out from the side. The outrigger also can be removed (with practice, only takes about one minute), leaving a miter fence that is merely 3 or 4 feet long. My outrigger has been off for about a month, but will be back on in an instant the next time I start a plywood-based project.

Is it just for professionals?

I just turned pro this year, "retiring" from computer consulting. When my wife learned to use the combo, her response was "you should have bought this 30 years ago." She was clearly thinking of all the projects we did, and the ones we didn't do because they were too big for the "amateur" equipment. Such as building all the cabinets for two kitchens, but being burned out enough that I bought the cabinets for the third and fourth kitchens. No more! I figure you can save enough by doing one kitchen to pay for a basic combo.

Bill Grumbine

07-06-2005, 9:06 AM

Bill,

Thanks for the excellent information. Just a couple of more questions about sliders. Is it possible and practical to cut smaller or narrower pieces (both cross cuts and ripping) with a slider or is it just for larger sheet goods or big pieces of wood.

Also with a slider and riving knife I would think there is less chance of kickback. But what happens if the internal tension in a piece of wood is released when cutting and causes the wood to pinch the blade and produce kickback with the wood clamped in place. Is the clamp strong enough to hold the wood being cut?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

Lloyd

Hi Lloyd

Crosscutting smaller pieces is real easy, and in fact easier with the slider. For example, I did a job using loose tenon joinery. I made the tenon stock out of some scraps of the same material about 6' long. The tenons themselves needed to be approximately 1 7/8" for the job. I put the crosscut fence on the slider, moved the rip fence back so the short pieces would have clearance, and cut a pile of tenons in about as much time as it is taking me to type this, and I can type pretty fast. I held a pencil backwards in my right hand and flicked the cut piece out of the way with each pass. Even with all these fancy gizmos, the saw can fire small pieces of wood like they are little wooden cannon balls if they get caught in the breeze of the blade.

For ripping narrow pieces, I still prefer the old fashioned way of doing it with the rip fence. I use the "fish stick" that came with the saw. It is a plastic push stick that looks just like a fish to me, hence the name.

My experience so far is that the wood can pinch all it wants, with the riving knife in place it is not going anywhere. The clamp can be set with enough pressure that it can pretty near deform the table. :eek:

Bill

Sam Blasco

07-06-2005, 10:27 AM

Bob,

I have considered this option myself.

MiniMax has this link on their website-http://www.minimax-usa.com/seminar.html. They are having a seminar later this summer on this very topic - converting from dedicated machines to a combo machine- along the lines of the European style of woodworking.

I believe Sam Blasco, who posts here occasionally, is the person actually giving the seminar. It might be a great way to find out if a combo could work for you. I would think that you could probably get the cost of the seminar credited back against the purchase of a new machine if you decided to get one from them.

Greg

This is so. I am doing two seminars this summer because the one in August filled up so fast and there were folks who still wanted in, so I added another one in September. I'm not sure if I was allowed to post anything here so I refrained. My goal was to do one class this year and have a regular, quarterly schedule next year. So far so good.

I'm with Bill. The first month I had my full combo you could have bought it from me for a song. Took some adjusting and re-learning. The only reason I got it initially was because of the sliding table for the saw. I was initially going to add an aftermarket slide mechanism to my cabinet saw, but the footprint was too permanent and my shop too small. The combo just made sense, and ultimately it was the best thing that ever happened to my shop and the way I work. When my business started expanding exponentially and it was time to move into a larger space, separate machines were ordered, mainly due to the addition of employees, but then life threw an interesting curve and now I'm working for a Euro-Woodworking-Machinery company. Subsequently, shop size stayed small, I became more of a weekend warrior (and nights, mornings too,) and a combo remained as the most viable alternative.

Change overs don't bother me in the least, they are second nature now, and the time spent is minimal. It is much, much faster than when I had to wheel my separate tools into place, set them up and put them away again. "Godfrey Daniel," quothe I madly if an error appeared and I needed another maple board thicknessed to the same "almost" 3/4". In many instances now I can keep stations set up with no change over time and bounce from one to the other, including going from saw to shaper, but it depends on the specific tasks. My parts production increased by 36% when I switched from using separates to going to the full combo, according to my well documented project time sheets. By far the largest time savings was found taking full sheets to cabinet parts, my initial reason for wanting a slider, but I knew this to be so, having worked on some big sliders in my journeyman past. I didn't expect the increased speed elsewhere (in fact, I had anticipated the opposite), but this makes sense to me now, after years of working on one.

I am a convert now. I mean, I can still see the sense in separates if the space is there to have them dedicated and ready to go at all times, but in reality, for me, a one man show, I really like having all my major power stations in one grey area, freeing up the rest of my shop for stock, parts and work surfaces surfaces surfaces. And work surfaces are like clamps, as far as I'm concerned, you can never have enough of them.