Window Framing Question

[Rich Riddle]

I am roughing in the framing on a project that will have many windows (all open). On the front side you have a door and windows that are 61 1/2" high for the rough in. On both sides and the back all the windows are 60 1/4" high. One will be able to see two sides of the building and since it's mostly windows possibly the height difference. The question concerns if one should align the bottom edges to the same height, the top edges to the same height, or split the difference. Any opinions?

[Peter Quinn]

If possible make them all the same size. Why are they different by such a small margin? Different sash types? If possible I would pad the RO to be equal and use the same size windows. If not I would set the sill height at one level and let the tops take care of them selves, harder to read as the tops will be well above most peoples eye level assuming the interior sill height is not on the floor.

[George Bokros]

From my experience windows and doors are all set at the same height and let the window sills take care of themselves. By the way 61 1/2 is a little low for the doors, doors are usually 6"8" or 80 inches so rough in is 81 1/2 I believe. At a rough in of 61 1/2 the doors will be under 5" tall??

George

[Rich Riddle]

George,

The front side of the building has an antique door that has a rough in of 83 1/2". The windows on the front size of the building are 61 1/2" tall, not the door. The windows on the other walls are 60 1/4". I am wondering if I use the top end of the window or the bottom end of the window as the consistent variable. One of them is going to be 1 1/4" of unless I split the difference to 5/8" or something like that. Thanks.

[John Lanciani]

Top. Set all of your headers at the same height.

[Gary Yoder]

definitely the top. Framed houses for a living for years, and almost always aligned the top. depending on the siding choice you may never see an 1 1/4" anyway....

[Peter Quinn]

Framers do lots of inexplicable things that make trim carpentry more interesting. Any logic to setting the head at the same height? I've seen this done, and asked why, it looks better if the windows are of vastly different types, like a mix of awning, casements and double hungs or fixed sash whose dimensions differ considerably. But when the sizes are close it creates a consistent sight line where you can't read it and a zig zag where you can. I don't know the sill height or ceiling heights, but if it's a 60"ish RO, 10" header, 8' ceilings I'd guess 24-26" sills? That is in you direct sight line from the ground and from the inside. So consider what lines you are creating. If all the windows on a given side of the building are the same size it matters less, hard to get a read around a corner, then you might consider the visual interior, the trim, window treatments, distance from casing to crown. What matters to you most is what should guide the decision.

[Al Launier]

Standard height for doors is 80" (6' 8") & windows 87" (7' 3").
Frame accordingly to shim as needed.

[scott vroom]

For large windows that are nearly matched in height I'd align the sills so that all are on the same level when viewed from the inside of the house....for me that trumps any exterior view concerns. An exception would be where the windows tie into picture moulding, not typically found in modern construction but common in 100+ year old homes and high-end traditional new homes.

I wouldn't split the difference because it will then look like a mistake IMO whereas aligning either top or bottoms will look like a design choice.

[Peter Quinn]

Standard height for doors is 80" (6' 8") & windows 87" (7' 3").
Frame accordingly to shim as needed.

Door I agree, but windows? Whose standard And why? The 80" headroom on a door is code minimum, I make plenty of custom doors that exceed 80". For windows I'm guessing that's 8' ceiling, come down 2x10 header, window is at maximum height. Easy for framers...fill in sill heights as specified on plan with cripples or measure down to create specified RO. But does it look good?

[scott vroom]

Easy for framers...fill in sill heights as specified on plan with cripples or measure down to create specified RO. But does it look good?

You can have it (pick 2):

Fast
Cheap
Good

Construction trades live by this rule.

[Phil Thien]

Most typical is to align the tops of the windows with the tops of the exterior doors, and the bottoms of the windows fall where they may.

But in your case that would mean the floor to window would be only 18.5".

How high are the ceilings?

Is there an architect in the house?

[scott vroom]

Most typical is to align the tops of the windows with the tops of the exterior doors, and the bottoms of the windows fall where they may.

But in your case that would mean the floor to window would be only 18.5".

How high are the ceilings?

Is there an architect in the house?

No, no architects needed!!!!! (I wouldn't want to find out I've been doing it wrong all these years) :D

[lowell holmes]

I'm not currently a builder, but back in the 70's and 80's we framed the door headers and window headers at 82 1/2". I did build 20 houses. They may do it different in California.

The doors were 80" tall.

[Jerome Stanek]

we used 6'9" jack studs on both windows and doors when we built houses. In commercial we used 81" and 85" for doors

[Jim Andrew]

When I was a builder, retired in '01, I used the header as the top of the opening. If it was a double 2x12, all the headers were 2x12. Sometimes had to put a board under the header for the doors. But the top of the windows was always the header. A few times I put the top of the window right under the soffit, and had to adjust slightly for that. Usually the overhang was wider than normal, like 3' or 32". But some people like the look of having the windows tight under the soffit, and I would adjust the header size to accomodate that. But all windows were the same height, unless there was a garage with a window in the front, and sometimes we would lower the garage windows, as the garage floor is lower than the house floor. Talking about houses with basements and a framed platform floor on top of the basement.

[Rich Riddle]

Most typical is to align the tops of the windows with the tops of the exterior doors, and the bottoms of the windows fall where they may.

But in your case that would mean the floor to window would be only 18.5".

How high are the ceilings?

Is there an architect in the house?

The door is rough-in at 85" for this setting. It's a greenhouse, but built more like an elaborate doll house. It's going to have shingle siding and the entire building will reflect a "Craftsman" look. Inside it will have a sloped ceiling and likely follow a 8/12 pitch.

[Mark Wooden]

Align the heads.
When using horizontal siding- even vinyl- the bottom of the course at the top of the windows should sit on the top casing. When we did mostly cedar clapboards and cedar shake siding, we always laid out the courses to align with the common sill and head casings, most architects specified it. For non-adjustable siding- ie. vinyl- you have to layout your starter by measuring down from the heads.
More importantly, it keeps all theinterior head casings inside in line. When ever hanging multiple doors on a hall or room, always align the heads and the low opening rules. This way, when crown moulding is used, the lines between the heads and molding remain straight and even, making for a neat job.

[Jason Roehl]

I agree with Mark Wooden. I've been in many, many houses. Head casings that don't align on the interior stick out like a sore thumb. Align the tops of the windows.

[Paul Girouard]

Frame exterior doors 2 1/2" over sized for height , 2" over for width. This way you can add a piece of 1/2"ply / or 7 16" OSB under the door before you set it. This lifts the door enough for a throw rug inside the door, even if people have tile in the entry , they want a throw rug in front of the door, generally.

On headers: in your case keep the window headers aligned with the door headers, bring the sill's up as required for different heights window's.

Things that can burn you on windows.

#1: To close to the floor , 18" or under , glass needs to be tempered.

#2: To far off the floor in bedrooms, 42" max sill height for egress windows , one per bedroom required by code.

#3: Windows beside door, stairwell , around tubs / showers must be tempered.

#4: Operable windows with in 36" of gas meter/ regulators, any type of gas appliance vent.

#5: Awning or casement windows in walkways at head height, not a code issue , but ramming ones head into the corner of a swung open awning or casement window will leave a mark!

[Rich Riddle]

Thanks for all the insights. Seeing how the windows are extremely close in height, I will likely make the tops level and see if I can't play a bit with the exterior apron and stool to make up the difference.

[Paul Girouard]

Thanks for all the insights. Seeing how the windows are extremely close in height, I will likely make the tops level and see if I can't play a bit with the exterior apron and stool to make up the difference.


You could drop the headers on the shorter window , then use a header that makes up the different in overall height by making it's height wider.

The issue you'll have is figuring out how much the header need dropped. As well as the slight difference in how a door trims out compared to the windows you have. Maybe you have vinyl window that are fairly simple , but realize that a door head trim gets dropped down onto the jamb a bit and a window casing comes down to the window top, you bring the door casing down a bit more than a window.

A full scale drawing reveals the difference in how a window differs to a door.