Norm gets bad rap!

[Michael Gibbons]

The other day I was thinking about the NYW and it dawned on me that over the years Norm has built A LOT of stuff. For example 17 seasons x 13 projects per season x 2 pieces per project = 441 pieces. I figure that a few projects were 1 of a kind like the Workshop hutch, Mitre bench, Garage workshop, and Childs playhouse to name a few. So take away 20 pieces for one-of a kinds and you still have over 400. Not all projects of Norms are to be considered fine woodworking but everyone has to start somewhere and I feel he has come a long way. All projects are useful in some way. How many people can say they personally built 400+ pieces of anything? I started woodworking because of Norm and I've learned a lot from watching him. We should strive for Normdom!:D

[Chris Padilla]

I never gave Norm a bad rap. I always love and will continue to love watching him either on his own show or on This Old House. I love home remodeling (even though I am pathetically slow) and I also love woodworking and those two go nicely together for me because the two hobbies share many tools.

Dave Marks on Woodworks just provides another aspect of ww'ing that Norm doesn't show and that is just fine, too. I enjoy watching both of these gentlemen very much and I always learn something in each episode.

Now if I could just figure out this compound angle, pyramid thing!!! ;)

[Lou Morrissette]

I agree, Michael. The popularity of woodworking would not have happened if Norm had not come on the scene. He got me started.

Lou

[Todd Burch]

I'm pretty sure I've made over 400 pieces... and it hasn't taken 17 seasons to do it.
;)

[Chris Padilla]

I'm pretty sure I've made over 400 pieces... and it hasn't taken 17 seasons to do it.
;)

Kindling doesn't count, Burch! :D :D :D :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Norm and David Marks each have their own place. As it has been discussed here previously. Norm builds projects that the average person can relate to and afford. He's the person that caused my interest in building furniture. David Marks, on the other hand, builds things that are probably economically out of reach for most of us amateur hobbiests. I have learned a great deal from both.....they both have given me something to strive for......but then again....so has a big numbers of SMCers!

[Mark Singer]

I think there is much to be learned from watching Norm or David Marks...TV is a great medium for learning woodworking. I do think the David Marks projects are more design oriented and very buildable for most woodworkers. They have both done a great job exposing woodworking to a general audience....

[Jerry Olexa]

I enjoy watching both those gentlemen and I learn much from each of them. Long may they reign...:D

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I agree, Michael. The popularity of woodworking would not have happened if Norm had not come on the scene. He got me started.

Lou

Hmmm. Me thinks Norm may be responsible to some degree for folks buying better quality machinery...but hobbyist woodworkers have been around forever. I think the Internet has probably had a bigger impact on giving newbies the 'confidence' to come out...

KC

[Alan Tolchinsky]

If you read the story on Norm in Pop. WWing it has to impress you as far as how much work he does. He builds two of everything using the first as a prototype for the show piece. It looks like he does all his own work with little or no help. Man that's impressive and so is his work. He makes some pretty complicated stuff with great strong joinery. I can see nothing to criticize here. I enjoy watching David Marks as well. Have a great 4th.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I've had over 600 projects in the last ten years, but I don't have my own show. That said I agree that Norm has influenced many folks, including me.

[Todd Burch]

Go back to sleep Padilla!! I wasn't counting kindling - I was counting pen blanks!!! ;)

I too have learned a lot from watching Norm. He's a seasoned woodworker, and so is Marks. I've also learned a lot from my local professional cabinetmaker friends too, who are just as good, if not better, than the woodworkers that have TV shows.

[Jeff A. Smith]

The other day I was thinking about the NYW and it dawned on me that over the years Norm has built A LOT of stuff. For example 17 seasons x 13 projects per season x 2 pieces per project = 441 pieces. I figure that a few projects were 1 of a kind like the Workshop hutch, Mitre bench, Garage workshop, and Childs playhouse to name a few. So take away 20 pieces for one-of a kinds and you still have over 400. Not all projects of Norms are to be considered fine woodworking but everyone has to start somewhere and I feel he has come a long way. All projects are useful in some way. How many people can say they personally built 400+ pieces of anything? I started woodworking because of Norm and I've learned a lot from watching him. We should strive for Normdom!:D

Who gave it, and where did Norm get a bad rap?

[Keith Christopher]

The thing you have to remember about norm is, what you see in the show is dedicated to individuals watching the show. I have seen a comissioned piece built by Norm, and it was to say the least AMAZING. he truly builds to cater a certain level of woodworker and still enable them to build wonderful projects. It's no secret I am a huge DMarks fan, but I am also and always will be a huge Norm fan as well. One can never get enough learning.

[Lee DeRaud]

We should strive for Normdom!:DOr Normhood.
Or Normitude.
Or Normosity.

But definitely not Normality.:eek:

[Pat Salter]

I hate Norm for the same reason the Joker hated Batman. Remember Jack (playing the joker) saying, "He's got the neatest toys!" :D nah, just kidding, I watch Norm whenever I can. I just wish my tools and shop were as nice as his :rolleyes: and as far as David Marks?? I wish I had his wood stock! :eek: oh, well, going to go make some sawdust.

[Chris Barton]

Just some of my observations if the two were in a "deathmatch"

Drawer construction-
Norm: 50 routers and a Leigh D4 jig to make a dwawer.
David: Brass pins and plastic resin glue.

Favorite style-
Norm: anything Shaker
David: anthing modern (pseduo Krenov)

Favorite wood-
Norm: cherry
David: rare Antartic rosewood stained by polar bear urine

Favorite power tool-
Norm: Delta table saw
David: Multirouter

Favorite finish-
Norm: Polyurethane out of a can
David: Tung oil put on with a 1" brush and a rag wiping it off as quick as possible

Favorite hand tool-
Norm: Delta table saw
David: card scraper

Favorite shirt-
Norm: anythig flannel and plad
David: button down oxfords to hide my tattoos on TV

Favorite adhesive-
Norm: PVA, with excess or bleed out rubbed into surface with thumb
David: illusive plastic resin glue surounded by 23 yards of blue tape

Tool they would least likely be without-
Norm: $23,000 industrial belt sander
David: card scraper

Just a little ribbin for two of my favorites to spend time with on a Sunday afternoon...

Chris

[Norman Hitt]

My sentiments on Norm run with all the above and I watch him all the time, but I don't ever watch David Marks.

Why??????? "WE CANNOT GET HIS SHOW HERE" :mad: :mad: :mad:

[scott spencer]

Not sure who gives Norm a bad rap....he's a legend to me. NYWS is one of my all time favorite shows. Heck, I watched it for years before I even thought about getting into wwing!

[Richard Wolf]

If I recall, Norm gets a bad rap from some high end furniture builders and traditional woodworkers. Don't ask for names, I don't know. "Their" feelings where that Norm lacked basic hand tool skills,(oh, there's a surprise) and his projects where poorly designed in terms of jointery and allowing for wood movement.
Personally, I think Norm has done for woodworking what Jack and Arnie did for golf.
What's not to like about another woodworking anyway?

Richard

[John Shuk]

All I know is that I was in a hospital bed for 2 months. Norm was on every morning on DIY at the time. The man got me through. I think both D Marks and Norm have evolved. Marks is making stuff more people can relate to lately. Norm is kicking it up a notch. These are 2 very different people though. Norm embraces being a Yankee carpenter. Marks sees himself (rightly so) as an artist. They just are coming from 2 different directions. I love them both.

[Chris Padilla]

Just some of my observations if the two were in a "deathmatch"......
Chris

:D Ha, ha, ha!! :D

Very nicely put, Chris, very nicely put! ;)

[John Gregory]

I enjoy NYW so much, I would have swore that I have been watching more than the 17 years it has been on PBS. :rolleyes:

I enjoy Norm and David a lot. Both bring a different approach to woodworking and I have learned a lot from both very talented men.

[John Hemenway]

I'll add my name to the above as a supporter and fan of his Normness. One of the things I really like about NYW (and other Russ Morash programs) is the excellent photography. You can really see what Norm is doing at the router table!

I've only seen two David Marks shows (DIY is a REALLY premimum here - only on DISH! ). I like it but seems no where near beginner level. I'm sure if it was available for less $$ I'd be watching it! :)

[David Wilson]

I too am a fan of Norm. One of my biggest thrills was a few years ago when I submitted a photo to Norm's websight and a couple monts later it was posted there. ( Look under New Yankee's At Work, select Minnesota, and scroll down to Dave Wilson.)

[Tyler Howell]

I would pay dearly for a NYW Out Takes and Bloopers video!
It would go a long way to rebuild my fradgile WW ego.
Haven't seen Dave in action! No cable, less TV.
Now Roy Underhill, is my kinda guy. He makes lots of mistakes for all to see.
All have been a great help in making me the tool collector I am today.:o

[Tom Hintz]

I wrote a story "His Normness" for my site over four years ago and it has been in the top ten pages in readership every month since! He continues to have a very large influence on woodworking.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/hisnormness.html

[Jack Hogoboom]

Tom,

I love that piece on your website. My only concern is that after three years or so of woodworking, I don't think Norm has all that many power tools anymore.... :o I may even have a couple that he doesn't have. :rolleyes:


Jack

[Tom Hintz]

Jack,
"I may even have a couple that he doesn't have."
I think it may be considered to be in bad taste to make such a statement in some circles!
And, remember that he always has that huge sander that uses rug-sized belts if he needs to trump something we have!
Of everything I have seen His Normness use on that show, that huge sander is the only one that seems over the top, even to me.

[Michael Pfau]

Norm is at the top of my list! Love watching him and love ordering his plans. I can say without a doubt, that he inspired me over the years to be where I am now, having more fun then I ever have had!

[scott spencer]

If I recall, Norm gets a bad rap from some high end furniture builders and traditional woodworkers. Don't ask for names, I don't know. "Their" feelings where that Norm lacked basic hand tool skills,(oh, there's a surprise) and his projects where poorly designed in terms of jointery and allowing for wood movement.
Personally, I think Norm has done for woodworking what Jack and Arnie did for golf.
What's not to like about another woodworking anyway?

Richard It's interesting to note that Norm wasn't a wwer when he started on the set of the NYWS...he was a carpenter when asked to build a piece of furniture. I'd say he's evolved nicely. David Marks is a wwing artist. I enjoyed his show but it isn't available to me anymore. I always enjoyed the level of Norm's projects and his calm way of explaining things.

[Mark Singer]

There a many talented furniture and cabinet makers around.....the quality of the work you see is generally very high. Building furniture requires skills that go beyond even the high end cabinet maker... Over the years , I have know many great woodworkers and I have and have seen some incredible work.

I recently went to the David Marks Lecture at Pomona and was extremely impressed. He has delved into areas and mastered techniques that are unusual for one person to learn. He has mastered incredible finishes, wall sculptures , incredible cabinets , chairs and hollow vessels. He has constantly challenged himself to attain this vast variety of skills. Typical furniture builders master a few types of pieces and tend to repeat their work. David is a very good teacher since he has taken the time to learn so many skills. The TV show really doesn't scratch the surface of his ability or the projects he has done, most would be too challenging for a typical audience or a 30 minute show. This guy is really good.

I am not making a comparison to Norm....they are different and are both great comunnicaters and in fairness I never attended any Norm lectures. It is great to be able to see these stimulating shows and I appreciate the inspiration it instills in all of us.

[Joe Mioux]

Norm v David.....hmmm. I think not.

Norm is more westernized while David is more asian. Neither is wrong. There can be any number of analogies for this discussion and comparison.

Different styles, yes; both great teachers.

[Bill Lewis]

I would pay dearly for a NYW Out Takes and Bloopers video!In general, the Norm discussion has been raging since the first airing of the NYWS. I'm was a little surprised that I haven't seen it float to the surface of the creek earlier than now, and maybe it has.

I know this question has come up before in other forums, and in rec.ww. I know because I've posed the question myself, several times.

Quoting from ancient reposted email exchanges, the response from the powers that are the show state that there have not been enough bloopers or out takes to fill a show. I heard this several times over the years. Not that they say Norm is that good, they did show him break a piece he was bending once (wine cart), but he really is rather methodical, and does a great deal of prior planning.

Take that for what it is worth.

Also, count me in with the ranks of those who have been watching TOH practically since it's inception, and consider that fact attributable to my home remodling gene being turned on. I too acquired the tools through this process and desired to use them on something more than a pine 2x4. I have Norm and Russ to thank for being one of the few available resources of live action knowledge and inspiration of their time. They may not have started the revolution, but quite possibly accelerated it.

One could argue that without TOH, the success of Home Depot, and the DIY channel, may never have occured. But that gets in to a chicken and egg thing too.

[Charles Bruno]

Norm was the first to get me motivated in wood working, without the NYW I may not have started. David Marks and others like Sam Maloof inspire me.