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Tony Joyce
07-24-2014, 6:21 PM
I have been both a seller in the past and a buyer for over ten years. I decided to sell a few surplus(to me) items. Buyer with low(10) feedback purchases an item, does not pay. I'm left in limbo for two weeks while eBay supposedly helps. Case closed, I go to leave feedback. This is the eBay note I get.

"Note: Buyers can leave sellers negative, neutral, or positive Feedback. Sellers can leave buyers positive Feedback or choose not to leave Feedback."

Now I'm left wondering about the validity of the whole feedback system. You could be buying from someone with no negative feedback who has not paid for any purchases. How is this fair to a seller.

End of rant.

Tony

Mike Henderson
07-24-2014, 7:18 PM
That's a change. It used to be that Sellers couldn't leave negative feedback unless the buyer did not pay.

I suppose you understand why eBay changed their policy. It used to be that a seller would not leave feedback unless the buyer did first. Then, if the buyer left negative feedback, the seller would leave negative feedback for the buyer. It was a blackmail type of thing. So eBay changed the policy. They said the buyer's obligation was to pay, and the only way the seller could leave negative feedback was if the buyer did not pay.

But if someone does not pay, I'd write it off and offer the product to the next highest buyer. If it was a "buy it now" I'd relist.

Mike

Dave Sheldrake
07-24-2014, 7:46 PM
been like that here for years now

cheers

Dave

Rich Riddle
07-24-2014, 9:59 PM
They did it for a reason but threw out the baby with the bathwater. Unscrupulous sellers used to hold the potential for negative feedback over buyers as a way to extort good or no feedback. It was bad, very bad. I would pay immediately and then spend weeks begging the sellers to ship. If you gave them the feedback they deserved, they retaliated with negative feedback and not sending the product. Since this "new" policy, I have only encountered one bad seller who tried to pay that old game. Now eBay and PayPal take it seriously but went too far.

If you sell on eBay and have not sold at least ten items they will also hold your money for up to a month or until the buyer posts positive feedback. They also want you to include "free shipping" because is you don't charge the buyer for it then they also charge you a fee on your shipping via the total price. I don't sell anything on eBay because when it's all said and done, typically the seller is out 15% - 20%. It becomes a cost analysis question concerning time, frustration, and shipping. Many people have far better luck in here or on Craigslist for tools.

Wade Lippman
07-25-2014, 10:10 AM
Many people have far better luck in here or on Craigslist for tools.

Depends on where you are. In WNY I can get twice as much on ebay for something small as I can on CL. Of course much of that extra goes to shipping and expenses; but it also sells faster on ebay.

David Weaver
07-25-2014, 10:18 AM
I think the idea that the feedback setup is engineered to do anything other than maximize sales and give you an impression more than a reality is false.

I sold a $350 sharpening stone to a guy in new york last year, his wife found out (at first he said his wife wasn't happy that he bought the stone and he'd like to return it). Then he came up with a story and claimed that she thought the stone might fall apart and I didn't describe that it could fall apart - I have no idea what that meant, as it was in fine shape. His wife didn't know anything about sharpening stones, but despite it being a no-returns auction I had to take it back because ebay will always side with the buyer - all he's got to do is make up any story. He could've claimed that the green color of the stone didn't look exactly the same in the dark as it did in the sunlight on my picture, and ebay would've demanded I give him his money back - it's set up to keep the buyers buying. Sellers have to deal with it because they have no other option. They've realized that putting it to the sellers is the way they're going to get the maximum number of buyers, and therefore the maximum amount of revenue.

There's nothing I could do there as a seller, either, because the guy waited two weeks to get positive feedback and already left positive feedback, and then decided he wanted to return the stone after he got in trouble with his wife. I couldn't leave negative feedback, anyway, but it put me out the time plus the cost to ship the thing.

It's set up like a show, to create the illusion of 100% happy buyers and sellers all the time, and the seller takes the fall if anything, without the ability to ever make a visible record of it.

Sean Hughto
07-25-2014, 10:26 AM
I'm only guessing, but I think eBay would say that they will know if buyers do not pay and address it. For the Sellers that have to suffer the non-payments, they added things like the Second-chance offer.

David Weaver
07-25-2014, 10:44 AM
Yeah, you can file a complaint about a buyer and if they are non-payers, they will eventually have to set up another ID.

Greg R Bradley
07-25-2014, 11:12 AM
I think the idea that the feedback setup is engineered to do anything other than maximize sales and give you an impression more than a reality is false.

I sold a $350 sharpening stone to a guy in new york last year, his wife found out (at first he said his wife wasn't happy that he bought the stone and he'd like to return it). Then he came up with a story and claimed that she thought the stone might fall apart and I didn't describe that it could fall apart - I have no idea what that meant, as it was in fine shape. His wife didn't know anything about sharpening stones, but despite it being a no-returns auction I had to take it back because ebay will always side with the buyer - all he's got to do is make up any story. He could've claimed that the green color of the stone didn't look exactly the same in the dark as it did in the sunlight on my picture, and ebay would've demanded I give him his money back - it's set up to keep the buyers buying. Sellers have to deal with it because they have no other option. They've realized that putting it to the sellers is the way they're going to get the maximum number of buyers, and therefore the maximum amount of revenue.

There's nothing I could do there as a seller, either, because the guy waited two weeks to get positive feedback and already left positive feedback, and then decided he wanted to return the stone after he got in trouble with his wife. I couldn't leave negative feedback, anyway, but it put me out the time plus the cost to ship the thing.

It's set up like a show, to create the illusion of 100% happy buyers and sellers all the time, and the seller takes the fall if anything, without the ability to ever make a visible record of it.
That is a pretty good assessment of eBay's sellers policies at this time. That is why I sell only a few items through eBay. If there is another way to sell something, I avoid eBay.

They started off with a good system but then sleazy buyers, followed by sleazy sellers, corrupted the system. eBay eventually adopted the current system which maximizes revenue by keeping the buyers happy. The good sellers mostly go away and are replaced by sellers who are willing to do a lot of work for little money. They eventually turn to selling junk so that they can make some money. They have to keep selling worse junk to try to keep up and are constantly in search of the bottom. Kind of like most other retailers, keep selling worse junk while trying to fool the buyers into thinking they are getting value.

David Weaver
07-25-2014, 11:17 AM
If I was running it, or I guess I should say if I were on the board of it and it was a public company that is now almost 20 years old, I'd probably dictate the policies be set the same.
* maximize the number of sales to maximize revenue by making everyone look more satisfied than they really are via an engineered feedback system
* for the most part, force people to use your currency system so that you can force transfer of money if parties disagree
* set up the system and agreements so ebay's actual exposure is none or as close to none as possible

I just wish etsy would catch on a little faster because the fees are a lot lower. There is a lack of listing on etsy right now more than there's a lack of buying.

Brian Elfert
07-25-2014, 11:38 AM
I'm only guessing, but I think eBay would say that they will know if buyers do not pay and address it. For the Sellers that have to suffer the non-payments, they added things like the Second-chance offer.

A lot of buyers will refuse to take second chance offers. Some sellers will use a shill bidder to run up the price and then claim the high bidder didn't pay and offer it to the second place bidder. The reason the buyers don't like it is because the second chance offer is often more than it would have been if the shill bidder hadn't run up the price.

Brian Elfert
07-25-2014, 2:18 PM
At least for the stuff I buy, Ebay is mostly sellers selling new items at Buy It Now prices. You can still sometimes find lower prices for new items because the item is out of the box or something. Sometimes sellers will use Ebay to unload stuff they can't sell through their retail store or normal website. I also see a lot of new items selling for way more than the prices at other sites.

I haven't bought anything from Ebay through an auction in ages. I did buy a new sander out of box for a good Buy It Now price a few weeks ago, but it is missing the vacuum hose.

Sean Hughto
07-25-2014, 2:18 PM
I think there's a lot of variation int he practices of buyers and sellers in various markets. I buy and sell a lot on eBay and have since before they had pictures with their listings. Like any neighborhood, I guess you have to learn your way around - areas where thinks are risky and people are poorly behaved and vice versa. I never had a seller not ship and I've never had a buyer not pay. I have a rating near 1000 and 100% positive. There are losers and scammers everywhere I suppose, but most people are pretty honest in my experience.

Jim Koepke
07-25-2014, 4:29 PM
On leaving positive feedback, just say something like, "Buyer never paid giving me the chance to sell it again." Just click the positive button. People reading will get the idea.

As for myself, it seems selling on ebay makes more money for ebay than it will for me.

jtk

Tony Joyce
07-25-2014, 9:19 PM
If the non-pay wasn't bad enough.

Now I've sold an item for $200 plus shipping of $65(eBay shipping calculator) to a buyer in HI. Total $265 I go to print shipping label and shipping charges are $172. At this rate I may as well give this stuff to my friends, it would be cheaper.

Now I understand why the deals have gotten fewer and farther between on eBay.

Last of my ranting, Sorry and thanks for listening.

Tony

Brian Elfert
07-25-2014, 9:27 PM
On leaving positive feedback, just say something like, "Buyer never paid giving me the chance to sell it again." Just click the positive button. People reading will get the idea.


How many people really read positive feedback? I usually look specifically for negative feedback. A lot of negative feedback is petty stuff. Ebay used to make it easy to search for negative feedback, but now they just used a red colored ball or something to mark negative feedback.

Moses Yoder
07-26-2014, 5:22 AM
The feedback system is definitely wacked. Years ago I did some stuff on ebay but when I went to get back on years later I think they eliminated my account. I started a new one, so even though I am an honest and forthright person I have very little feedback, getting some now. That auction for my little Jeep that I won last Saturday finally on Tuesday night the seller refunds my money and sends me a note saying sorry the little green jeep is missing. Now I got a full refund, plus found a better deal on one right away, but I still felt the seller should have negative feedback for that auction; putting something on ebay that they couldn't find when the auction ended. How do you do that? Still. having no feedback myself I was concerned about retaliation in any form from the seller. Just starting out, this could be devastating. I sent them a note saying that since the transaction was never completed and I had received a full refund I was not going to leave feedback, peace out. I imagine something like this happens a lot.