Building a bed, need joinery advice

[Anthony Rausch]

Hello all,

This is basically my first furniture project. Right now I have all the boards 4 squared and ready to cut to size and begin joining. My question is about joining the platform rails with the lip. I initially was going to butt joint glue them with pocket holes to provide the clamping force. I am thinking that this may not be strong enough to stand up to the use of tying shoes on it, or maybe sitting on it, or something I'm not considering right now but will eventually happen that stresses the joint.

I know that the screws in this case aren't going to be providing any strength in the joint they just assist in clamping it together because I don't own enough clamps to get entire bed rails glued. I'm looking at woodgears.ca where he does some strength testing and butt joints perform very poorly. All wood is 1-1/8" thick.

Do you guys think that dowels will be sufficient in providing enough strength to this joint? 1/2" or 3/4"? I don't want to have to add brackets or a piece of wood to the underside of the lip to give the lip more bearing surface. I would like just clean 90* lines. Anything beyond dowels is probably going to be pretty tough, like adding a spline or loose tenons, simply because I probably don't have the skill yet to route out such a large area and slip the spline in, and I don't have chisel skills or a mortiser for the tenons.... so dowels would be the easiest and most preferred.

The wood is dimensional lumber, spruce, pine or fur, not entirely sure.

Should be able to click to expand. I don't have a the middle rail shown, or the slat system.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

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[Rich Enders]

Anthony,

If the grain on both the vertical piece and horizontal piece runs along the length, then the joint between the two will be long grain to long grain. This is not the butt joint you read about. Yours will be a good strong joint. Glue it up and screw the horizontal piece to the vertical piece about every 6 inches (in lieu of having enough clamps).

Also since this will be a very large frame that may need to be moved someday you should consider having the corners able to disassemble using bed bolts.

[Anthony Rausch]

That's a relief to hear Rich, thanks.

I have some no-mortise bed rail brackets for connecting the rails to the head and foot boards. The center support I'll just glue on some blocks to either side and bolt it together with the bolts running through the blocks and the board, parallel to the foot and head boards.

[Jim Matthews]

Splay forces will be limited, but I would treat it like a toe-kick in cabinetry.

At least one cross member in the center will prevent
the sides from being pushed in, say by a vacuum cleaner.

I wouldn't rely on just the two pieces for a long lasting joint.
Glue blocks, or brackets won't be too much complication.

http://www.rockler.com/kerf-mount-corner-brackets-for-table-aprons-kerf-mount

[Jerry Olexa]

I prefer M/T but there are brackets available specific for that...

[scott vroom]

Maybe use a couple of corbels on the sides and foot end to support the lip?

[Anthony Rausch]

Hopefully I can get it glued up and stained by the end of next week. Would really like to get a project under my belt.

I'll just go with the glue and screws on the lip for now. If I notice the glue delaminating in spots I'll address it comes up. I don't expect the lip will get stressed to the point of making it fail but you never know.

[Rich Enders]

Anthony,

Whether you need corbels (or brackets or load blocks) will depend on the application point of the load. The screwed and glued horizontal to vertical glue joint of your frame will not fail against most any normal load, but if the effective point of loading is far out on the horizontal member of the frame, you will experience some torquing/distortion of the frame. Ideally you want to place the vertical member of the frame as close as possible directly underneath the focal point of the load. You did not detail whether you are simply using a mattress or a futon, or whether there will be a box spring, or for that matter how the support slats will be connected, but the potential torquing should be considered especially since you planning to build this from soft wood instead of stiffer/stronger hardwood.

Getting it glued up and stained by the end of the week is another issue entirely. I think there are two things that come into play here. One is the old saying "why is there always time to do it right the second time'? The other is that building things yourself will be more satisfying and your interest more long lasting if you can learn to enjoy the process at least as much as the result.

[Jim Matthews]

The other is that building things yourself will be more satisfying and your interest more long lasting if you can learn to enjoy the process at least as much as the result.

That's a very good point.

[johnny means]

I'd you glue your lip to your rails well, your joint will be plenty strong. The problem will be that you're structure will be too weak for the potential loads of may be asked to carry. Enough force on the edge of that lip could cause it to split the member right at the corner like a miter or vertical through the lip flush with the rail. I wouldn't consider 1.125" thick enough to stand up to that much cantilever in a situation where it could very well be required to carry the full weight of a full grown adult.

[johnny means]

Also, I build beds for a living and by far the easiest knock down hardware too use is going to be surface mount brackets. I've used them fixed of times and never had a problem. Granted they don't have the strength of a bed bolt, but they are plenty strong. I've used them exclusively on kids loft and bunk beds and never had a problem, even after years of kids playing on them. Woodcraft has some that I particularly like.