Laguna Bandsaw Experience??

[Chris Barton]

As some of you may have realized by now I am in the market for another bandsaw. My 14" bandsaw is a great saw but, will not resaw the capacity I need sometimes and certainly gets bogged down in some of the blanks I am trimming for the lathe. I have reviewed the Rikon discussion of late but, wondered if anyone had experience with the Laguna line. Their 18" just got a "Best Overall" from FWW in 2004. I am mostly interested in their 16" model which has a massive 12" resaw capacity. Any feedback would be appreciated!

Chris

[Paul B. Cresti]

As some of you may have realized by now I am in the market for another bandsaw. My 14" bandsaw is a great saw but, will not resaw the capacity I need sometimes and certainly gets bogged down in some of the blanks I am trimming for the lathe. I have reviewed the Rikon discussion of late but, wondered if anyone had experience with the Laguna line. Their 18" just got a "Best Overall" from FWW in 2004. I am mostly interested in their 16" model which has a massive 12" resaw capacity. Any feedback would be appreciated!

Chris

Chris,
one word for you that describes the best 16" bandsaw there is for many more words that I can begin to describe, "MiniMax"

[Gary Max]

Chris ---I am 90 miles from Bowling Green Ky. If you want to see a laguna in a shop you are welcome to come up. This could save you a bunch of money. Plus I can share my whole Laguna experience with you.

[John Miliunas]

Chris, you may have noted that SMC is BIG on MM, so that puts me as one of the "odd guys out". Nevertheless, here it goes. I've had "ups" and "downs" with Laguna, but in the final analysis, I'm a happy owner of their 16HD. This is the older version, which does have the ceramic guides, but still retains the Italian motor and "only" 12" of resaw capacity. (The new 16HD has 16" resaw and a Baldor motor!:) ) Anyhow, even with the Italian motor, I do not find myself wanting more power and, with a good blade (I primarily use the Resaw King.), the results even down to >1/16" are remarkable! I believe much of this can be attributed to both, the blade and their innovative, patented "ceramic guides". The fit, finish and general quality of the machine is great and blade changes quite easy. Adjusting the ceramic guides has a bit of a learning curve, but once you do it a few times, it too is quite easy and painless.:) On somewhat of a side note, another thing which impresses me with the Laguna organization is that the owner and his wife are very actively involved in volunteering their time, equipment and knowledge in a number of K-12 schools. An effort to keep and/or introduce WW in the education system. Yes, one may see this partially as being self-serving, but at the same time, it's helping to keep this wonderful hobby of ours alive!:) I'm not looking at upgrading my 16HD anytime in the near (or distant) future, but if I were to do so, LT would be at the top of my list. And NO, I'm NOT affiliated with LT in any way, shape or form. Just a happy user!:D :cool:

PS: Regardless of what flavor saw you decide on, if you have the room/funds, I might suggest hanging on to your 14"-er. I didn't keep mine, but now wish I did just for doing smaller, scroll-type work and keeping the 16HD free for resawing and large ripping duties.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I too own a MM16 but I would not hesitate to recommend a Laguna either. My neighbor owns a Laguna HD16 and it's very comparable to mine with some differences. They are both very impressive, capable machines to me.

As far as quality I think it depends more on the actual machine you get than the brand. There are defects in ALL of these machines and most should be fixable. You may be lucky and get a perfect one but I think your chances of getting the perfect saw depends more on luck than any brand name. Just my opinion of course.

[Todd Burch]

I have the Laguna 18" and have upgraded to the their ceramic guides. I had a Jet 14" closed stand prior and thought I would keep both too, but I had many issues with the 14", and I sold it. (A thin band would not track and stay on, and any reversing out of a cut would guarantee the blade coming off the wheels. It was not adjustable to the extent that it needed to be.)

I bought the 18" back in '97 (I think). The $150 carbide blade I bought with the saw never did cut like the demo I saw when I bought the saw at a woodworking show. When I upgraded to the ceramic guides last year, Laguna gave me a discount towards their newer technology carbide, while admitting that their prior carbide (the one I had/have) was not as good. The euro guides that originally came with the saw were about worn out too.

I like the tension adjustment mechanism. I like the brake. I have the Italian 2HP motor and it works just fine. I like the low table as it is much better for reawing sizable cants and log sections. Duct collector aspiration is OK. I would prefer a duct that exited at the top of the column, instead of at floor level, but I can make my own.

The electronics are a bit goofy. By just turning off the saw with the black switch, a humming noise continues to be emitted from the controls. Hitting the big red button or unplugging the saw stops the humming.

I do have a couple beefs with bandsaws in general, and this is not particular to Laguna.

1) I do not like a table tilt adjustment that requires a wrench. How many people would put up with a tablesaw tilt adjustment that required a wrench?

2) I fiercely do not like having manually adjustable blade guides. I also do not know of a saw on the market that does not have manually adjustable blade guides. Certainly someone out there is smart enough to design a saw with blade guides that can "find" their own adjustments. I mean, if you can buy a hard drive for a PC with heads that track on plastic mechanisms thousands or an inch above a disk spinning at 7200 RPM, why can't a blade guide do that too? I'd pay $300 for that option in a heartbeat.

Both of these events: tilting the table and changing the blade, discourage me from using the bandsaw more.

Todd

P.S. You can search this forum for many other posts about Laguna Bandsaws.

[Cecil Arnold]

I'll chime in to say that while I think both saws are good, I know that MM will bust their buns to give good customer service. I had heard that Laguna had a problem in this area but I have also heard that they are turning that around.

[Chris Barton]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have learned a good bit from these posts and really appreciate your time. I also know that with bandsaws, just as with lathes, some folks are fiercely devoted to a given brand and I have seen that with MM but, less with Laguna. I am trying to keep an open mind about this purchase and have also considered the Rikon, MM, Grizzly, Jet, Bridgewood, ... I am a firm believer in buying the highest quality first and never having to look back with buyers remorse. I plan to keep my 14" saw and probably mount a 1/4" blade and use it primarily for cutting curves. The bigger saw would be reserved for resawing and trimming turning blanks. Again, thanks for you thoughts!


Chris

[Alan Tolchinsky]

"I do not like a table tilt adjustment that requires a wrench. How many people would put up with a tablesaw tilt adjustment that required a wrench? "

Todd, I don't know about Laguna but MM has a table that adjusts with a handle instead of using a wrench. I have the wrench on my MM16 but it's not a problem for me as I don't tilt the table much.

[Todd Burch]

I see - a quick tilt table. Wasn't aware of that one on the MM. 1 down, 1 to go.

Thanks, Todd

[Dennis Peacock]

Chris,

I also have a Laguna LT16 BS and have used it a great deal in the last 7 years. Like Todd, I don't like the stock blade guides but have learned how to better deal with them. I have never needed more power on the BS and all cuts with the Timberwolf blades is awsome. Care in tuning the BS, proper alignment of the wheels to be co-planer go a very long ways to making the BS run smooth and true.

No matter what you get, take the time to set it up, tune it and learn how to best tension the blade for the best cut possible. Knowledge of each tool and how it works best does make a difference. DAMHIKT!!! :D

[Chris Barton]

Well here are some of the specification differences between the MM16 and the Laguna 16HD:


Sepc Laguna 16HD MM16
Price $2,295 $2,395
HP 4.5 Baldor 3.6
Resaw 16" 14.25"
Min Blade 1/16" 1/16"
Max Blade 1 3/8" 1 1/4
Throat 15.5 not stated
foot brake yes yes
weight 465 lbs 488 lbs

[Norman Hitt]

I have reviewed the Rikon discussion of late but, wondered if anyone had experience with the Laguna line. Their 18" just got a "Best Overall" from FWW in 2004. I am mostly interested in their 16" model which has a massive 12" resaw capacity. Any feedback would be appreciated!

Chris

Chris, just one quick note about the "Best Overall Rating in FWW". No MiniMax saw was included for comparison in this test, because MM Does Not have an 18" Model. Note; this is not a put down of Laguna either, but just to set the record straight.

Another point of interest is that the Resaw capability on the new model MM-16 is somewhere between 15" and 16", (I don't remember the exact spec offhand). I only mention this because the 12" resaw capability seemed important to you.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck and have fun with whatever you choose.

[Chris Barton]

Thanks Norm,

Good points. According to Mini Max's web site the resaw cap for the MM16 is 14.25"...

Thanks,

Chris

[Norman Hitt]

Thanks Norm,

Good points. According to Mini Max's web site the resaw cap for the MM16 is 14.25"...

Thanks,

Chris

Chris, that may be the correct figure, there have been several changes in the last couple of years and I just can't remember for sure, but you might give them a call and ask, as they aren't high pressure people and will give you good answers. I do know that sometimes they are a Little slow updating the website information.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Thanks Norm,

Good points. According to Mini Max's web site the resaw cap for the MM16 is 14.25"...

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,
That info is based upon the old design. The new MM16 is 16"x16" capacity. Call MM for the details. These saws are all Italian in design and manufacturing. Laguna (ACM) and MiniMax (Centauro). I own a Agazzani B-24 that was bought about 5 years ago when MM was not very well known nor did they offer the Centauro line. Back then i choose Agazzani over ACM due to various reasons. The Agazzani 16" model is a very light weight saw. I have had a MM20 in my shop, as I was holding it for someone, and it was built much more stoutly than even my B-24. The steel was simply thicker everywhere, the guide post was head and shoulders above my Agazzani. If I would do it today I would own a MM24 no questions about it. True I own a full MM shop so you can say I am biased but measurements and performance + customer service do not lie. Have some of us had problems with our machines, yes. Have they always been resolved, yes. Get the MM16 it simply is the best 16" saw hands down

[Jim Becker]

Good points. According to Mini Max's web site the resaw cap for the MM16 is 14.25"...

The website has not been updated...the current model has 16" resaw.

[Norman Hitt]

Chris, I just remembered I had a flyer from MM for the AWFS fair that was in Las Vegas and here's what they had on the MM-16 specs: (too bad you just missed the Show Sale Price....$2095) Oh Well, I'm sure they'll have another before long :D

Specs on Flyer: MM-16

4.8 hp motor
16" Resaw Capability
1.25" Blade Capacity
154" Blade Length
523 lbs. Net Weight

Guess I wasn't as far off as I thought I might have been considering the current state of my "Wonderful" memory. :D

[Jamie Buxton]

People who make a bandsaw decision primarily on the resaw capacity may be missing something. Say you have a saw with 16" resaw capacity. Say you manage to find a 16" board (which is darn rare), and you resaw it. Now what? You have a face on the board which is bandsaw-rough and 16" wide. Ideally you'd have a 16" jointer to flatten that face, but that is pretty rare in the small shop. Heck, a 16" jointer will cost you substantially more than a bandsaw with 16" resaw.

What I'm suggesting is that the buying decision should be made coordinating the bandsaw and the jointer. Having one substantially larger than the other isn't very useful.

[Chris Barton]

Hi jamie,


that's when I would use my Performax 22-44 drum sander...

chris

[John Miliunas]

People who make a bandsaw decision primarily on the resaw capacity may be missing something. Say you have a saw with 16" resaw capacity. Say you manage to find a 16" board (which is darn rare), and you resaw it. Now what? You have a face on the board which is bandsaw-rough and 16" wide. Ideally you'd have a 16" jointer to flatten that face, but that is pretty rare in the small shop. Heck, a 16" jointer will cost you substantially more than a bandsaw with 16" resaw.

What I'm suggesting is that the buying decision should be made coordinating the bandsaw and the jointer. Having one substantially larger than the other isn't very useful.

Your points are well made, Jamie. With one exception: If the BS owner also happens to own a large lathe, in which case, the 12+" capacity could become useful for blanks.:) Otherwise, I concur, though in practice, one would really be more limited in the size of one's planer. If you have a flat face on a board, you can resaw using that as the reference side and, if equipped with a good blade, often only sanding is all that is needed to finish off the piece. By and large, though, I agree that most folks aren't going to come across boards that big to begin with. (I said "MOST" folks!:D ) :) :cool:

[Paul B. Cresti]

People who make a bandsaw decision primarily on the resaw capacity may be missing something. Say you have a saw with 16" resaw capacity. Say you manage to find a 16" board (which is darn rare), and you resaw it. Now what? You have a face on the board which is bandsaw-rough and 16" wide. Ideally you'd have a 16" jointer to flatten that face, but that is pretty rare in the small shop. Heck, a 16" jointer will cost you substantially more than a bandsaw with 16" resaw.

What I'm suggesting is that the buying decision should be made coordinating the bandsaw and the jointer. Having one substantially larger than the other isn't very useful.

Jamie,
You are correct in your assumption, by the way my saw resaws up to 15-3/4 and I have a 16" j/p. For me, way back when I was more concerned with the throat capacity. I was sick and tired of hitting that stinking "post" on my little toy 14". IMHO people should look at the capabilty of a saw to tension correctly in order to perform the resawing needed. Bandsaws are very simple machines. They need to be built rigid to do what they need to do. I do resaw a decent amount for door panels and such but I use my saw for mostly rough ripping. The table size on my saw is a blessing and I would never even consider anything smaller for my needs.

[Greg Ladd]

Norman and Chris,

The AWFS show is at the end of July so if Minimax is advertising sale prices they should still be in offered. I believe they are taking some saws to the show to sell that may have special pricing on them.

For my money the MM 16 is the saw to buy unless you want or need something larger. Their customer service is said to be second to none.

Give Michael Kahn at Minimax a call and talk to him about it. He will gladly discuss any concerns you have.

Greg

[Richard Wolf]

If you are going to spend that kind of money on a band saw. MiniMax should be your first choice. All machines in this class are excellent, but customer service, as others have said, is head and shoulders above the rest.

Richard

[lou sansone]

I too own a MM16 but I would not hesitate to recommend a Laguna either. My neighbor owns a Laguna HD16 and it's very comparable to mine with some differences. They are both very impressive, capable machines to me.

As far as quality I think it depends more on the actual machine you get than the brand. There are defects in ALL of these machines and most should be fixable. You may be lucky and get a perfect one but I think your chances of getting the perfect saw depends more on luck than any brand name. Just my opinion of course.

Just a couple of observations.

1. I really appreciate Alan's impartiality on this topic. I happen to agree with him.
2. I have owned a laguna and it was a great saw ( LT24) I would recommend it again. Laguna is not the best for customer service, but I really did not need any because the saw was pretty decent right out of the crate.

Best wishes for your new saw
lou

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Thank you Lou.

[John Shuk]

I have a Laguna LT16 NOT the HD. I bought it just after this model came out. I had issues. My first saw was damaged in shipping. It wouldn't have happend if it had shipped on it's spine but ok blame the shipper there. They sent me a new saw and picked up the old. The new one wouldn't fire up. Bad switch. Tehy said a new one would be shipped the next day. I wait. Week later no new switch. I call. They say"Oh we'll ship it right out". Another week no switch. I call. They say that they'll ship one right out. Long story short it is a couple of months. They tell me that when it comes in they will ship it all wired and ready to hook up to the motor. Just before they ship the NEW Customer Service expert they hired calls me to tell me they had the switch and were going to ship. I asked if it would be wired he said no. I told him I would like it wired he said too bad. In those words. He told me they were already into this thing too much and I would have to do the wiring. They said they would send me a switch, a template and a drill bit to drill the frame for the new switch location. I got a switch. A very complicated switch. I had to call to get help wiring it. Guess what. The wire that had originally come with the saw would no fit the new switch box. It wouldn't reach and was too fat. I called to tell them and they said they would send me some. I told cusotmer service man that I was a little disappointed that it wasn't wired in the first place. He yelled at me and told me that "Laguna has stepped up bigtime here" (his words not mine). I told him that 3 months with a non working saw was not stepping up. He said " Are you done or do I have to listen to this some more?" On my mother I had not yelled at anyone until he said that. Well the story goes like this. I have a saw that has alot of vibration. After getting the switch installed the saw is still not perfect. They are so unresponsive there that I just don't want to deal with it. I just get annoyed when I think about it. I wouldn't buy from them again. The truth is I probably would not buy a Mini-Max either. Not because it is not a good saw. That's not it at all. Just because they are across the country from me. I want to be able to go face to face with someone. I'd find something acceptable locally. Sorry for the rant. I even left stuff out to save space.

[Norman Hitt]

Greg, You are absolutely RIGHT!!!!! Heck, I guess I'm a month ahead, and that is unusual for me.........I'm usually a month behind. :D

In re-reading the Flyer I got, they are showing show prices on almost every machine they sell, it looks like, (26 different machines), and they say that they will give these prices for a brief time to ALL customers whether you can attend the show or not, BUT........you must order them BEFORE the Show Date, which is July 27 th. So anyone interested should probably call them Soon and check it out.

Note: I have no affiliation, etc., etc., with MiniMax other than owning two of their machines. (Now if the Prize Patrol would hit my house, I see three on their sale list that I might just add to my fleet. I think I could actually ENJOY Sanding, with a 37" widebelt sander) :D



Norman and Chris,

The AWFS show is at the end of July so if Minimax is advertising sale prices they should still be in offered. I believe they are taking some saws to the show to sell that may have special pricing on them.

For my money the MM 16 is the saw to buy unless you want or need something larger. Their customer service is said to be second to none.

Give Michael Kahn at Minimax a call and talk to him about it. He will gladly discuss any concerns you have.

Greg

[Mike Mastin]

in terms of build quality and customer service. Period. I considered the Laguna and Agazanni 24" bandsaws, but after looking at the rigidity of the Mini-Max (I use carbide bands which require super high tension) and then talking to the Mini-Max staff at length and seeing all of the positive responses from their owners, it was an easy decision for me.
My MM24 is not only a workhorse, but a precision tool that has the backing of one of the finest customer oriented companies that I have ever dealt with in my life.
Laguna builds a fine tool, no doubt, but there is only one real choice in the bandsaw market for me :D

[Jeff A. Smith]

I told customer service man that I was a little disappointed that it wasn't wired in the first place. He yelled at me and told me that "Laguna has stepped up bigtime here" (his words not mine). I told him that 3 months with a non working saw was not stepping up. He said " Are you done or do I have to listen to this some more?"

Dang... I'll file that one away in under the heading "Never Buy Squat from Laguna." Even hearing that story makes my blood boil. Treating someone like that is not without payback.

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Jay Knepper]

My LT 16 (made in Bulgaria) turned out to be a bandsaw kit. The saw shipped with an undersized spring and a lot of vibration. Laguna immediately replaced the spring and helped me to do some things to lessen the vibration.

They tracked me down more than a year after I bought the saw (I had moved from IL to east Tennessee) and asked about my satisfaction. I mentioned that the saw had more vibration than I would like and we ran some diagnostics. In the end they sent me a balanced upper wheel, and things are sweet.

Plusses:
1) Good customer service follow-up
2) A fine saw for me (but I wish I had a HD version or a MiniMax)
3) Great guides, no "drift" to compensate for
4) Plenty of power
Minuses
1) Lack of manufacturing control
2) Replacing the wheel is not for the faint of heart
On resaw capacity, Laguna's spec at the time must have been without the guides. The guides take up close to two inches of capacity.

[John Shuk]

My LT 16 (made in Bulgaria) turned out to be a bandsaw kit. The saw shipped with an undersized spring and a lot of vibration. Laguna immediately replaced the spring and helped me to do some things to lessen the vibration.

They tracked me down more than a year after I bought the saw (I had moved from IL to east Tennessee) and asked about my satisfaction. I mentioned that the saw had more vibration than I would like and we ran some diagnostics. In the end they sent me a balanced upper wheel, and things are sweet.

Plusses:
1) Good customer service follow-up
2) A fine saw for me (but I wish I had a HD version or a MiniMax)
3) Great guides, no "drift" to compensate for
4) Plenty of power
Minuses
1) Lack of manufacturing control
2) Replacing the wheel is not for the faint of heart
On resaw capacity, Laguna's spec at the time must have been without the guides. The guides take up close to two inches of capacity.
Jay,
I've given them plenty of chances to do these things. I've had alot of civil conversations at shows with Laguna reps. You would think they would go back and talk on my behalf to the boss. Nothing. This stuff happened with Laguna a while ago. I have made a point of not talking about it here to be fair. But I just had to share this. I've heard some great Laguna stories. It just didn't happen to me. Thanks for letting me rant.
John

[Jim Andrew]

My MM 16 is the '04 model with only 14" resaw capacity. The salesman said
when I ordered it that it is built to run 2 shifts a day for 30 years. The centers
of the wheels are about 1/2 " thick. It runs smooth. I thought it was a lot of
money for a bandsaw, but I don't have to worry about upgrading. Jim

[Jeff Bradley]

A while back, I purchased an MM16x16 (in part based upon reviews here) and I have been very pleased with the machine as well as the customer service I have received. And this is despite the fact that I haven't actually used it yet.

Prior to purchasing, I spoke with my MM sales representative (Eric Loza) a number of times and was always treated very well. I never felt hurried or pressured, and he answered all my questions honestly. I have also had excellent follow-up service with multiple phone calls to see how things were progressing, as well as items sent out to me (free of charge) to deal with any "issues" (nitpicks really) I have had. He even sent me a free set of cool blocks to make up the price difference when I called to see if the new AWFS special they are running right now is better than the deal I received more than a month back.

When I was shopping for a bandsaw, I compared the MM16 to the Laguna 16HD but ultimately chose the MM16 due to it slightly heavier construction, customer service, and cheaper price (especially when I factored in the carbide blade and mobility kit that came bundled in the deal I got -- these were extra on the Laguna). The Laguna seemed to have better fit and finish (going from pictures since I never saw either saw in person prior to my purchase) but that has turned out to be a non-issue since I think the MM16 looks much better in person than in any pictures I had seen anyway. While I ended up with the MM16, I am sure you couldn't go wrong with either machine.

As for why I haven't used it yet... the saw requires 220V 30AMP service and I am still working on wiring my shop. I can't wait to get things done so I can finally try it out.