Getting close to purchasing second Laser Trotec vs Epilog

[Josh Borlovan]

I am looking at a Speedy 300 80w and a Helix 75w. I am primarily doing wood rastering nowadays and I need something that will raster FAST.


All of you new trotec owners, how is the transition to using the new software? I have read through older posts on SMC but I want to hear recent input please.

Also, it is networking friendly in an environment where there are two laser systems but one computer that actually handles the designing? (This is pretty important)

[Dan Hintz]

If your main business will be engraving, then paying 22% more for a machine that is 100% faster seems like an easy choice. If you have the clientelle, the 22% will easily pay for itself in short order with the extra throughput.

[Scott Shepherd]

There are several shows coming up soon. If you're interested in buying in the next 6-8 weeks, I'd wait for a show and get show pricing.

I think you're looking at it wrong. You are comparing final prices. However, the features aren't the same by any means. Would I pay 22% more for the features the Trotec has? Absolutely. I've said this about a zillion times on this forum, so let's go for one zillion and one....I will NEVER buy a laser that doesn't have a job control system or a programmable Z-Axis. The Helix has neither. So you're not comparing apples to apples. That's like saying "I looked at cars today and one brand was 22% more, but it had power windows, locks, air conditioning, and leather interior and the other one didn't".

If my main concern was rastering, then without question, I, personally, wouldn't go with a slower machine.

If you aren't happy with the offer you got from the Trotec rep, negotiate. Make them a counter offer.

[Josh Borlovan]

I don't think it a 80w trotec is 100% faster than the Helix. It may be faster but not 100%.

[Mike Null]

I agree with Steve 100% but even more, I am impressed with the total dependability of the Trotec. I am in my 8th year with only one day on down time and zero outlay for parts. I am going to have to have my tube recharged in the next couple of months but after 8 years I am completely satisfied.

My work is laminated plastics and wood so i do a lot of rastering.

Another point, Trotec has recently expanded their tech support staff and in my judgment they hired some quality people. I have felt that their tech support was always good--now it's better.

[Bob A Miller]

Can't speak of a Trotec in a fast production shop. But I find myself doing a lot of wood these days. Exceptionally happy with my Trotec. Rastering speed is great. Would very happily buy thus machine again.

Just heard about a month ago Trotec has a new networking option from one of the tech's who just came back from the factory in Austria.

[Scott Shepherd]

Also keep in mind that if you plan on rastering wood and having it dark, depending on the wood, you're not going to get any speed advantage from the Trotec. You only get the speed advantage when it's running at 100% speed. With many woods, you have to slow it down significantly to get the engraving to turn dark. If you were engraving something like maple and wanted it dark, you'd not see any speed difference in the two machines when rastering.

However, if you're doing things that can run at 100% speed, like engraving plastics, etc., then you'll see the difference.

That's why it's so hard to help people make decisions about things like this, it's so relative to what you plan to do with it.

[Josh Borlovan]

I really want to demo a 80 watt Speedy but my rep can only put me in touch with 100w machines. I have the option of going to Cincinnati OH possibly. Rep says the power is linear and a 100w running at 80% Power should perform right about the same as an 80w running at 100% power.

I would really like to run some .cdr files on a thumb drive on some of the wood I use regularly in an 80w if possible and just to get a general idea about the job control software. Anyone with an 80w SP300 within a reasonable driving distance from central KY? ZIP 42718 that would be willing to show off their baby for an hour or so? :D

I would like to run a job on my ULS, and then a SP30080w and then a Helix 75w and see what the time differences are.

[Kristina Jones]

Hi Josh - I just spoke with your Trotec Rep and we are coming up with some other options and locations for you. He will follow up with you on these shortly. Thanks!

[Patrick Cooley]

Josh,
I own a Helix 75w for the last 3 years. When I was shopping, I actually took a trip to the Trotec offices and was very disappointed with their staff and expertise to recreate the samples I had brought along from my previous Epilog. The wood engraving did not look near as good as my epilog samples. I think Trotec is the best built machine, but it just didn't seem to have the user friendly software, and support to back it up. My Helix has been a great machine. I have had a couple of days downtime, but Epilog was very helpful in getting me running again. The company I work for by day recently looked at a Galvo laser from Trotec and we again were very disappointed with Trotec's knowledge of the product and the inability to answer our questions and request Hopefully they can get their act together as I do feel they have a great product.
I would highly suggest you take samples with you to a show and try both machines to make your choice. Good luck. Pat.

[Scott Shepherd]

Josh,
I own a Helix 75w for the last 3 years. When I was shopping, I actually took a trip to the Trotec offices and was very disappointed with their staff and expertise to recreate the samples I had brought along from my previous Epilog.

I think it's pretty unfair to try and compare where a company was 3 years ago to where they are today. I could recount the same story about Epilog. My experience with them was horrible and the rep bought the machine back after 8 months of fighting problems. Does that mean I think they are horrible? Absolutely not.

Trotec today has a fantastic tech support team and their applications people are really do some great things as well. Regardless of the machine quality, I'd have no problem recommending Trotec's tech support and applications lab to anyone. 3 years ago, they were still making the fastest machine on the market. In fact, a 7 year old Speedy 300 is still faster than a 1 day old Helix.

[Mike Null]

Pat

I have to go with Steve's analysis that Trotec is growing and improving continually. Also remember that what you see in Michigan is just the US operation and doesn't take into account the very competent design and tech staff on call in Austria.

Based on our previous conversations I know you crossed wires with somebody at Trotec but that was quite some time ago. You may want to re-visit them.

Anyway, good to have you join us again. I hope all is going well up there in Iowa.

[Josh Borlovan]

Hi Josh - I just spoke with your Trotec Rep and we are coming up with some other options and locations for you. He will follow up with you on these shortly. Thanks!

Thank you! I haven't heard anything as of yet.

[Robert Tepper]

I have to agree with Mike that Trotec has one particular new person in their tech/service dept names Mike. I had a question a few weeks ago and spent over an hour with Mike receiving an education on Corel X6 about features that I never knew existed.

I have had my Trotec for two years this month, down one day only. The machine needed a part replaced and my salesman came out on a Saturday, replaced the part and then 5 hours later was on a flight cross country to attend another trade show. To me that is exceptional service. My machine runs 6-7 days a week, 8-10 hours a day.

Robert

[Craig Matheny]

Josh,
I own a Helix 75w for the last 3 years. When I was shopping, I actually took a trip to the Trotec offices and was very disappointed with their staff and expertise to recreate the samples I had brought along from my previous Epilog. The wood engraving did not look near as good as my epilog samples. I think Trotec is the best built machine, but it just didn't seem to have the user friendly software, and support to back it up. My Helix has been a great machine. I have had a couple of days downtime, but Epilog was very helpful in getting me running again. The company I work for by day recently looked at a Galvo laser from Trotec and we again were very disappointed with Trotec's knowledge of the product and the inability to answer our questions and request Hopefully they can get their act together as I do feel they have a great product.
I would highly suggest you take samples with you to a show and try both machines to make your choice. Good luck. Pat.

Patrick just out of curiosity was it trotec that you were talking to or some third party that sells Trotec lasers? I have 2 Epliogs and I deal with Epilog direct and a rep in Costa Mesa both are great just curious if the blam is Trotec or the theird part?

[Patrick Cooley]

All,
Sorry, I didn't reply sooner. I very rarely get a chance to get on the forum. A couple points to add.
- Scott, your right, I shouldn't of compared what happened 3+ years ago. But, I also stated in my post a recent interaction (2/13/13) where we had very poor interaction from the USA home office. So in my opinion, things hadn't changed much.
- I also want to make clear that my interaction with Andy Wingfield the Trotec Sales rep has always been outstanding, and the disappointment came from the USA office staff.
- Craig, I was working with Trotec directly in the cases I stated.
- MIke, Always great catching up with you. It does sound like Trotec is doing a great job for everyone that has one. So yes, I will take a look at one for my next purchase.... which will be next year. I really hope that both Epilog and Trotec keep driving each other to be better, as we are the end winners.
Thanks for listening,
Pat.

[Mark Sipes]

I don't believe you should buy a Trotec...... If you do then we will not hear you complain that the machine is hard to use, 240V 50hz ? how do I rewire my shop, where does this wire go, instructions are confusing, machine is slow, software is too complex to understand, no one knows how to help me, I'm on my third tube in 2 years. I need Tech Support ! ......yada yada yada.......
.
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[Kevin Gregerson]

There is really no bad laser system just bad applications.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

I did not know they allowed sarcasm up there :D.
I agree with Mark...don't buy one this way those of us who already know the benefits of owning a Trotec will have less competition. Some people drive a Prius and some drive a BMW. They both can get you from point A to B and back to A. It just depends on what you want to do in between and how you want to do it.

[Kevin Gregerson]

I did not know they allowed sarcasm up there :D.
I agree with Mark...don't buy one this way those of us who already know the benefits of owning a Trotec will have less competition. Some people drive a Prius and some drive a BMW. They both can get you from point A to B and back to A. It just depends on what you want to do in between and how you want to do it.

Can't comment on any brand of laser really other than to say there isn't a one size fits all brand. I've seen shops make money on each brand. It really comes down to application.

[Matt Geraci]

I'm an engraver but use a sandblaster currently. Learning tons on lasers, thanks to y'all. I lost a contract to a guy with a laser and therefore am considering expanding my business and tools. Faster throughput, less prep work, less clean up... although lasers can't get as deep as my blaster... anyway I'm looking at Trotec-vs-Epilog - doing research, hope to test some models soon... My question is you guys that run your lasers 8-10 hrs a day -- HOW DO YOU DO IT and WHAT do you do?!?!
Cheers
Matt
Sandblaster Artist/Wanna-Be Businessman

[Jay Selway]

I have a helix 24. It's painfully slow. Having used a Trotec speedy, my next purchase will be a Trotec laser. Way faster.

[Kev Williams]

It's touching to hear everyone stick up for Trotec's and other's past customer service issues, 'aw, c'mon, give 'em another chance, they'll be better now!' --

But I'll bet there's still no such sticking-up for Gravograph's past customer service issues!.. Is there any regular on this board that's had any dealings with them lately? I haven't heard any, good OR bad.

But I digress. The reason I bring this is up is, no one seems to look at Gravograph for a laser. Checked them out lately? Their top machines will keep up with any Trotec, ULS or Epilog in every category. (Ok, maybe ;) ) And they're bulletproof. My 900, the one Dan is always telling me to clean up, is 11 years old and the only maintenance item I've ever changed is the mirror over the lens. A few years ago the power supply blew a voltage regulator. Gravo's CS had me a half price rebuilt at my door the next morning. I have 13 computer-controlled New Hermes/Gravograph machines I've collected since 1981, who's combined ages now total 233 years... all of them are in perfect working order, and the power supply noted above has been the only major breakdown, ever. And that was an electrical issue. I honestly can't remember ever having a mechanical breakdown. Since 1981. Think about that-- how many of you were even born then?

Yeah, I have to admit that their CS hasn't been the best in the past. But does anyone have any recent experience? :)

I know I don't, something has to break down first! ;)

[Mike Null]

I don't have and won't have recent experience due to my past experience with them.:mad:

[Tim Bateson]

Having just gone through this same process, I did choose another Epilog over Trotec. Price being only one of the reasons. History of superior support and familiarity were some of the other factors. Advancement in design was yet another. The M2 has implemented a number of improvements from my Mini24. Not to say the Mini was bad, it was and still is a work-horse. It's just the M2 is an even better machine. Waiting for it to arrive sometime this morning.

[Mike Null]

Tim

Congratulations on your acquisition. I'll be interested to see examples of your work with the fiber.

[Paul Phillips]

I don't have and won't have recent experience due to my past experience with them.:mad:
My feelings as well, my IS8000 is a rock solid piece of equipment, I just always felt like I was visiting a foreign country when using the software, granted my bad experience was with the local rep but it just left a bad feeling that I don't want to repeat.