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View Full Version : General Metalworking Do you have a moment to discuss moments ?



Winton Applegate
07-20-2014, 7:50 PM
Hi,

I’m a gear head and a “metal head” but I spend all my time over in the Neanderthal woodworking forum here on Saw Mill. Trying to learn woodworking you understand.

I need some help fingering this out.

I am going to use one of these (https://www.channellock.com/GL12-GRIPLOCK-Plier.aspx) or the other (https://www.channellock.com/442-V-Jaw-Plier.aspx) to make a custom tool for a specific machine adjusting task.

I suppose everyone here has experience with Channellocks in the 12” straight jaw model 440.
Both of the pliers I am puzzling over are similar but are “V-Jaw” for gripping damaged nuts and round work.

Do any of you have experience with either one of these V-Jaw Channellocks good or bad?

I am trying to decide from on line photos and descriptions; I cannot go handle the tools in a store.

I will be gripping round work only.
For the record I bought this tool (https://www.channellock.com/209-Oil-Filter-PVC-Plier.aspx) and FOR MY PURPOSE it was a complete fail (though it is a great tool for what it is designed for).

The adjusting component I will be gripping with the V-Jaw Channellock is 46 mm diameter and lightly knurled around the perimeter. There is a keyed washer sandwiched between it and the hex shaped lock nut but the thin tooth is notorious for failing and turning with the adjusting component hence the reason I need to prevent it from turning while I lock down the hex lock nut. Everything needs to be locked down quite tight as there is constant fairly dynamic vibration in the assembly. I have another bulky vise grip tool I CAN use if I need extreme leverage / grip for rare problems. For the most part I will be using this Channellock tool for it’s more slender shape and only heavy grip not extreme grip.

Both of these models of V-Jaw tools have characteristics that I like / need to get into the confined space. I will be grinding the hell out of either one to make it into the tool for the task.
There seems to be more than one “moment” here and so I am getting scramble brained trying to tell if there is in deed more grip force on the work from the Griplock etc.
Because the Channellock can slip around the work and depends on the frictional purchase on the surface and there is a pivot at the pliers joint determining this grip I think it isn’t a simple straight line from the center of the work to the force on the "effective" lever. There seems to be three “moments” here.
I am not an engineer ( just hung out with them) and am a “self taught” “genius”.

Ha, ha, ha, ha . . .

If that tells you anything.
Anyway here are my thoughts and observations.

Q : Is it true that because the moving jaw on the Griplock is closer to 90 to the lever it will have more grip / leverage combined in this sort of situation?

Q : On the Griplock I see the jaw gap adjusting arcs nearer the stationary jaw have been eliminated on the upper portion. Is this in fact weaker (for other uses than my main use) or is the majority of the force concentrated on the lower half so no big deal ? Just curious on that one.

PS: the Griplock is significantly more $ from my source and the regular V-jaw is a particularly good price or I might just buy both. After saying that "out loud" maybe I just proved to my self I should buy both . . . but anyway . . .

Thanks for your thoughts !
Winton

Pat Barry
07-20-2014, 8:36 PM
I would go with the GL12. For a 46mm object this should be perfect. I like it better than the other one since the V is closer to the jaw fulcrum and this will result in better grip

Winton Applegate
07-20-2014, 8:43 PM
Oh Hi Pat.
For some reason I thought I would be talking to a whole other group over here. First time I posted anything in metal land.

V is closer to the jaw fulcrum and this will result in better grip

Thanks for pointing that out !
And for the term "fulcrum" that I was searching for.

Pat Barry
07-20-2014, 9:18 PM
LOL - I was curious what you were wanting to discuss over here/

Noah Wagener
09-11-2014, 2:09 PM
How long is a moment?
If it is any duration than science tells us there are infinite moments within that moment. How does one pass infinite moments? same with any distance? how does one begin to move? If i am traveling at an inch per second, was i not at some point just prior travelling at a half on inch per second? You can break that down ad infinitum but at some point i had to go from not moving to some velocity with infinite acceleration making Newton wrong. "Isaac Newton: A man who made the startling discovery that things unimpeded will fall but never found out why." Ambrose Bierce