Grizzly G0514X2 bandsaw vibration help

[Jon Prouty]

Hi guys,

I need help. I've been working with Grizzly tech support and the vibration problem I have on my saw is getting worse.

I've uploaded to youtube a series of videos showing the problem - am I overreacting to what I see as a problem? My cuts are wavy like rippled potato chips.

grizzly has sent me new tires, a new bottom wheel and new tires again. I've installed a link belt. The new bottom wheel made things even worse (the new wheel they sent is junk - holes and riveted plates to balance it).

I'm tired of dealing with this saw - I've taken it apart so many times I can't even recall the number.

I'd love to have a smooth saw but this one is not it for me.
Here is the first video - there are a series of them under this account
http://youtu.be/B5sNnCNKmzg

what would you do? I also bought four timberwolf blades so if I return the saw I'm out that money as well. All blades show the same vibration so it isn't coming from there.

I've expressed my frustration with tech support - over a dozen emails from me alone working through this - pictures, videos, lots of testing and measurements. I'm tired and just want to use my saw to build something.

Please let me know what you would do...
Jon

[Mike Goetzke]

I have had this saw for several years now and after initial set up refinement it runs smooth. I would have them replace the whole unit. Sure looks like that top wheel isn't running true.

Mike

[Jon Prouty]

I did check both wheels with a dial indicator when I had the tires off - both were showing less than .001" in radial out of roundness. I think the whole thing is shaking from somewhere which is seen in the slow motion video.

Mike - what setup refinement did you have to do? I was expecting adjustment of the table and guide bearings, etc. nothing like what I've been going through.

I imagine the return/replacement process on the machine will be a royal pain. I will need to crate up the old machine somehow since the original crate was destroyed getting the machine unpacked. Maybe I can get by with bolting it to a pallet and not putting a crate around it.

[Randy Henry]

Maybe you have done this, but I didn't see it in your post. Have you isolated where the problem begins? What I mean is, if you take the bottom wheel off and just run the motor, what happens? If it's fine, then put the bottom wheel/belt back on, then run it. If it's smooth, then start working your way up. If the vibration starts when you put the blade on, could be bearings on lower or upper wheel, improperly balanced wheel(s), or even a loose bolt in the upper wheel tightening system. With that much vibration, it should be easy to isolate it. I would remove the table and guides to help with the diagnosing the problem. How long have you had the saw? It's up to you if it's worth the hassle of returning it for another saw. I have the 513 with the brake and it runs very smooth. I had a chirp coming from it, and thought something in the motor was acting up. It ended up being a guide bearing. Replaced it and it runs great.

[Jon Prouty]

I'm getting some runout in the drive pulley - there is a video of that. grizz tech said it should not cause my issue. I am doubtful in that response. I've done the rest and cannot isolate it beyond that pulley.

[Jim Finn]

I have a GO555 Grizzly band saw and had vibration in it after a few years. I checked the bearings on the lower wheel and they were fine but the shaft the bearings run on was badly worn. I replaced this $10 part and now it runs smooth again.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

How old is your saw?

[Jon Prouty]

Sorry guys - the saw is brand new. I ordered in March and it was delivered in April. Vibration was here from initial startup. I figured it was the stock blade so ordered new ones. Everything from a 1/4" to a 1" blade show the same levels of vibration. Bearings all seem to be in good order with no catching or other standard bearing wear signs. I've been dealing with tech support for a month and my saw is worse than ever.

here are more details.
Multiple blades all show same issue
Blade guides are not rubbing (top and bottom)
Removed V belt and motor is running is smooth (I can feel a slight hum in the table when motor runs alone but nothing I consider abnormal)
Top and bottom wheel appear balanced and not binding up on a bearing (I did the chalk thing on the wheels)
With blade removed I have about half the vibration as seen in videos - still excessive.
There is no debris under the tires and I've put on new tires
This showed up on initial start up with stock blade and three new ones as well.
Blades track good
Base is shimmed to eliminate harmonics
Cut is very poor - rippled due to shaking
new bottom wheel sent by Grizz looks like it came from an old saw - it was scratched and had two weights riveted on and multiple balance holes cut in the back - a real hack job but I was willing to try it.

everything seems tight/smooth - maybe a little excessive movement in huge upper wheel when no tension or blade is installed but that should be normal I think. There is nothing there to adjust that I can find other than the normal tracking function.

I can't imagine that that bottom pulley having some runout not causing some problems - even with a link belt.

Jon

[Mikail Khan]

How much is the runout on the pulley?

[Jon Prouty]

How much is the runout on the pulley?

About .004" measured at the valley of the pulley.

[Curt Harms]

No expert here but I'd probably approach it like Randy Henry above. You've run the motor by itself and saw no issues. Next I'd remove the lower wheel and run it with just the belt and drive shaft added to the mix, no wheels. That should show if there are issues with the belt/pulleys/lower bearings. If everything is still smooth, reinstall the lower wheel and try running it again. Still smooth? I don't know of a way to spin the upper wheel at working speed without a blade installed, unfortunately. It seems highly unlikely but all 4 blades are from the same manufacturer. Could there be some common flaw?

[Mike Goetzke]

Have you measured both radial and axial runout on the rotating components?


Mike

[Erik Loza]

A wheel can be completely within factory tolerance (whatever that might actually be...) for runout, yet still be improperly balanced, which can cause a vibration like that.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jon Prouty]

I'm sending it back to Grizzly and getting my money back. They don't want to ship me a replacement which would allow me to use the new ones crate and pallet. Their solution was to have me purchase a second saw and refund me for the first after it is received and they inspect it. I am not forking over any more money to Grizzly and after this experience I will probably never buy anything from them again. I hear so many good things about the company and their customer service. Makes me wonder why so many people have to use their customer service but now I get it. This isn't a bash on a Grizzly - just my experience with this saw and resulting customer service issue. I feel a month of emails and unsuccessful results is too much to deal with. Looks like I get to build a crate.

So, I'm going to be looking for another bandsaw. I like the 3hp and large table of the Grizz but the resaw height is too small at 12". For a 19" saw I would have expected a larger resaw capacity. I intend to use this saw for processing logs for my turning addiction and the occasional flatwork project (I don't have room for a tablesaw so this is my primary processing tool).

[glenn bradley]

I'm sorry to hear this. I have a G0513X and it runs so smooth and quiet that you can forget to turn it off. Your video shows a completely unacceptable level of vibration whatever the cause. With a few exceptions, these saws have been a real winner at the price point for Grizzly. It does seem that when one has troubles, it has them in spades ;-(

[Jon Prouty]

Looks like a solution has been worked out with Grizzly that works for us both. A new saw is being prepared and will be assembled and nickel tested prior to shipment. I hope to have the new saw in the next week or so and the old one will be out of my life. I have high hopes for a positive resolution with a working saw in my shop soon. I am pleased with how Grizzly has responded.

Will keep this this thread updated as things progress.

Jon

[Dustin Brown]

Wow, I really hope I don't have to go through the same thing. I just got my 514X2B in yesterday and set it up and test ran last night, same exact situation you describe. Called grizzly this morning and they are sending me a new lower wheel. I really hope I won't have to go through all that and wait a month or more before I can use my brand new bandsaw. I didn't have any problem with my dust collector or jointer. I was going to order a new planer next week, but I may wait and see if I need to find an alternative.

[John Coloccia]

I know this is late, but it's just a helpful hint if you run into something like this again. You can often times figure out where vibration is coming from just by looking at the frequencies involved. If it were coming from the blade, the frequency would be somehow linked to the frequency of the band going around...sometimes 1x....sometimes 2x depending on the problem....but the band goes around fairly slowly so it would be obvious.

If it was the motor, the motor turns at 1750 RPM....it would almost be like a buzz. Again, it would be obvious.

I know about what 200 beats per minute sound like, and I guesstimated the frequency to be maybe 3 times that...maybe a bit more. A couple of seconds of calculating how quickly a 19" wheel must turn to get 3500 FPM (just look in the specs) gives 700RPM. So there's your culprit.

My 514X2 is pretty smooth, BTW. It's not perfect and I'd trade it for a Minimax in a heartbeat, but it's a good value when it's working right.

[Jon Prouty]

Wow, I really hope I don't have to go through the same thing. I just got my 514X2B in yesterday and set it up and test ran last night, same exact situation you describe. Called grizzly this morning and they are sending me a new lower wheel. I really hope I won't have to go through all that and wait a month or more before I can use my brand new bandsaw. I didn't have any problem with my dust collector or jointer. I was going to order a new planer next week, but I may wait and see if I need to find an alternative.

Good luck - my fingers are crossed that the next one is going to be right. Did you check out the videos on youtube to see if your saw looks like it is doing the same?

[Dustin Brown]

Yeah I checked them out, looks like the exact same thing. With no blade on the table is vibrating back and forth almost 1/4" total travel. When I removed the wheel and ran the motor only I got the same result, just a slight hum but smooth operation.

I didn't even notice it was vibrating until I installed the table. I had tensioned up the 1" timberwolf blade they sold me so I could check that the wheels were coplanar while I had easy access. Wheels were DEAD on, never expected this. I do notice that when the blade is tracking on the upper wheel, the tips of the teeth run about flush with the left side of the bottom wheel.

I hope the new one works out for you, I've seen a lot of people raving about this model. Would be nice to see.

[Jon Prouty]

I'm going to be curious to find out how the testing in house goes before they ship me a new one. I wonder if there is a bad production run or if we were just unlucky. I'm surprised they started with a new bottom wheel for you - hope the new one you get is better than the one they sent me.

Like I said, I'll keep this thread alive until final resolution.

[Kevin Goss]

Did you loosen the motor bolts to give the v-belt some slack. My grizzly was too tight causing a lot of vibration and I slid the motor down 1/8" and it has a lot less vibration.

[Jon Prouty]

An update:
Grizzly sent another saw - this one is much better. They appear to have opened the crate to test it but I'm not sure how they did it. Before shipping they promised to unpack the saw and verify no vibration. They definitely did something but seeing as how the paper was still stapled to the blade and the table was in the original box with cosmoline my suspicion is that they didn't run it full up. Whatever, that is a nitpick because as soon as I uncrated the saw I plugged it in and gave it a test. Much better than the first saw I had!

I decided to reuse all my old saw's table, fence and miter guide. I had scratched my original table doing something dumb and had a little surface rust showing. I didn't want to send the old scratched table to Grizzly so I sent them back the new table with the old saw (left in original packaging).

Once I got everything moved around (old saw hot and new saw in) I installed the same blade I had been using in the other tests. Said a prayer and fired it up. I am much happier now with how it runs. I still have a little vibration but I can live with it because bit is so much better than saw number 1.
Here is the nickel test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKPDt1cFVZc

The old saw was packed up and picked up by UPS Freight last week. I was happy to see it go.

I am thankful that Grizzly stood behind their product and did right by me. I am considering my next purchase (new cyclone dust collection) and Grizzly is back in contention.

I hope to give the saw a proper workout in the next month or so.

Anyway, that is the latest and greatest.

[glenn bradley]

For what it's worth my saw became almost silent with the addition of a link belt.

[Jim Sevey]

Glad it is being worked out. I know the occasional problem is going to crop up. Tools, after all, do break or have glitches. Grizzly customer service has always been first rate and I got a stomach ache reading your posts thinking that Griz might be going downhill in customer service. I hope it work out for you. My new 15" planer is due to be delivered in about 10 days.....always nervous when you punch "go" for the first time. Good luck!

[Jon Prouty]

Gave the saw a workout today... Processing some acacia logs. My chainsaw didn't fair as well (started getting a lot of smoke from the bar - electric chainsaw working for a few hours ripping really put the strain on). Now the saw with a 1" 1 TPI blade ran through the wood like a hot knife through butter! I used the saw to cut all the checked ends off. Only problem is the dust collection plugged up and filled the lower cabinet with dust - I should have been checking it but kept running great (my bad - I'll watch it in the future). Here are some pics of the mess.

Loving the power of this saw - so far so good.

Jon