Can I use red oak outside if I paint it?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I volunteered to fix a friends bench. Another friend volunteered to provide the wood. I was provided with a stash of mostly red oak. Understand that I will not be compensated for what I spend, I am doing this to help a friend and I will not ask for money from this person.

If it were my bench, I would not paint it and I would not use red oak since I understand that it soaks up water and rots faster. I would use white oak.

So, since the bench will be unprotected outside, will a paint job suffice to protect red oak, or, should I just suck it up and purchase white oak?

Any thoughts on what paint I should use? Their desire is the least maintenance possible. I repainted the iron portions of the bench using black Rustoleum.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Side note, the friend gave me a bunch of wood to use, not just wood for the bench. This included some nice cherry, red oak, pine, and even red elm. I had never seen red elm before, but, the grain is stunning! A visiting friend commandeered most of my cherry, even what I had set aside for a project for my wife (he thought I meant take anything you want, not just "from that pile over there"), so I might use the red elm for the face fronts on a new project for my wife. Well, that or the red oak that I will probably have sitting around.

[Todd Burch]

If the red oak will constantly be going through wet/dry cycles, it won't last but a few years.

[Moses Yoder]

I think wood rots from getting wet and not being able to dry out. Basically it will only rot where it is in contact with something that prevents it from drying. White oak does last longer than red but really the length of time it lasts depends on the design. If there is contact with the ground and a lot of other pieces I would suggest springing for the white oak if possible. The paint will only slow down the rot by about a year I would guess in red oak depending on climate, it will crack a little bit and then the moisture will go right on in.

[Todd Burch]

I think wood rots from getting wet and not being able to dry out. Basically it will only rot where it is in contact with something that prevents it from drying.

Exactly. Like fasteners. And glue lines. And mounting points.

;)

[Kelly Craig]

Over simplification:

Issues of strength aside, you can use whatever you want. Some woods may last longer out in the elements, but, in the end, there is no magic, immortal wood. Anything you use has to be protected and maintained.

Though it doesn't have the strength of other woods, you could use cedar, but would have to secure boards to the bottoms (to make a T) to act as stiffeners, like you'd use on shelving, to stop sagging under load. You could use teak, of course. However, any wood is going to take a beating from taking on and losing moisture.

I have a teak rocker on the porch and the fronts of the arms are cracking from exposure to the desert heat here in Eastern Washington. As it dries, the wood shrinks and splits or cracks. Using non-hardening oils on it replaces lost moisture and swells the wood back, closing some of the cracks. Of course, it needs time to soak in and the excess must be dealt with so it can be sat on.

It's said the ultimate protection is, always, paint. The better the quality, the longer it lasts. Good paint has more pigments and binders that act as a buffer from the elements. Generally, glossier paints hold up better. Obviously, if you don't maintain the paint, the surfaces will go south, with the horizontal surfaces going quickest. As the paint or other surface coat cracks or wears off, water can soak into the wood. Then the finish holds the water in, as it swells the wood. The swelling wood will break the bond of the finish and the problems start to avalanche.

Remember, water rolls back under surfaces a bit, so if that area isn't protected, the water can soak in from there.

If you don't want to go with paint, you have clear coats and oils. Hardening oils (e.g., tung oil, linseed (flax) oil and walnut oil) don't resist moisture well. As such, they polymerize them and add resins and U.V. shields to make everything from Varithane to high end marine finishes. If they use more hardening oil, the finish isn't as durable, but it's more flexible, so holds up to wood shifts better.

As with paint, clear coats can be a bear to maintain. Less so, if properly maintained (i.e., before they deteriorate to the point of leaving some or all of the wood unprotected, requiring a complete stripping of the finish).

I like the idea of adding a layer of protecting to the wood, so if the top coat fails, it has a fighting chance of surviving. If you can get finish into the wood, or if the wood is full of non-hardening oil, there is nowhere for the water to go and is should just drip off or dry. The top coat can seal the oil in.

Remember, oils wick, rather than evaporate. So you can apply it and it may look like you've done nothing. This is because it wicked deeper into the wood. A second coat or other coats may not seem to do much better. However, at some point, the wood will maintain an appearance of having been played with for years after your applications.

I've take the oil approach on a garage door I built from spalt leavings (the leavings from cedar mills making shakes and shingles) and it worked just as described. Did the same thing on a butcher block using mineral oil. The cracks and splits dissappeared after the two bottles of oil had a few weeks to wick in and swell the wood.

Food for thought.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I like the idea of adding a layer of protecting to the wood, so if the top coat fails, it has a fighting chance of surviving. If you can get finish into the wood, or if the wood is full of non-hardening oil, there is nowhere for the water to go and is should just drip off or dry. The top coat can seal the oil in.


They were very clear that they want the easiest to maintain, so, I expect that after I give it to them they will do nothing. Two layers sounds fabulous, but, how does that work? I expect that after I apply oil, paint will not adhere well. Should I ask on the finishing forum? Should I do something like add BLO, let it sit a week, prime it then paint it? I do not have a clear idea on how this works.

[Lee Schierer]

The open pores of red oak are almost impossible to seal and they will wick water to the interior, which will rapidly cause the paint to blister and peal, resulting in wood rot.

[John TenEyck]

To me this would be simple. You volunteered to fix a friend's bench, and another volunteered to provide wood for the project. No one volunteered to pay you, nor do you expect to be. Unless you owe the guy for past favors I'd use the wood I was given to repair the bench. If I was feeling really generous I'd paint it well; otherwise, I'd give it to him raw with the recommendation to paint it.

John

[Peter Quinn]

To me this would be simple. You volunteered to fix a friend's bench, and another volunteered to provide wood for the project. No one volunteered to pay you, nor do you expect to be. Unless you owe the guy for past favors I'd use the wood I was given to repair the bench. If I was feeling really generous I'd paint it well; otherwise, I'd give it to him raw with the recommendation to paint it.

John


And I'd let him know what he's in for. Red oak rots quick outdoors. i'm not making this up. It really does. Try throwing a piece outdoors and see how it lasts before proceeding. Science experiment of sorts. You said its for a friend, I'd like to think I can speak freely enough to my friends to tell them the truth. I'm willing to make these bench parts, but either you buy some wood meant for the outdoors, or take your chances with the red oak. You want minimal maintenance but long lasting durability....and cheap? Good luck with that equation. Paint it? Epoxy sealer maybe. Piant? Wont last long, but why not. If you are in a position to and want to make a great bench for a friend, get some other lumber. if not talk to them and be honest.

[Kelly Craig]

You could use BLO. Just thin your first applications as much as seventy percent, but no less than fifty. When you get to one end, and if the point you started at absorbed the application, go back and add more. Keep doing that until your arm falls off, you get tired of it, run out of product, or it quits taking it.

I've done this several times by keeping a can of finish near the project, getting real aggressive with the initial application (as described above), then slopping more on each time I walked by throughout the day, focusing on areas that soaked in.

You could back off to ball park fifty percent thinner after your first go round.

Oak is porous and you can pour water through a 4x4, but this will go a long way to cranking up the life span of your project.

I had a red oak bench in the Pacific Northwet and it did fine for the four or five years I had it and was good until I sold it when moving.