?s for owners of well water/septic systems...

[Dan Hintz]

SWMBO and I are considering purchasing a house that uses well water and a septic system, I believe built in the mid-80's... having lived with city water/sewage all of my life, I have some concerns. I've read the usual pro/con articles on Google, but I'd like to get some first-hand experiences with them.

Water:
Power goes out, so no running water... pretty straightforward con, so do most solve it with a backup power source, or just "suck it up, Buttercup"? I imagine all minor taste/color issues are resolved with a decent reverse osmosis / water softener system?

Septic:
A bit more of a concern for me. We already don't throw grease and such down the drain (people do that?), but we do like our garbage disposal... I see some still use theirs, but is it really a problem with overloading the system? How often do you have solids pumped (I see estimates from every 2-20 years... pretty wide range!)? How long do the tanks/fields last if properly maintained, i.e., is this something we may need to replace soon if it's the original system? Other than tossing in some bacteria every few months and having it pumped every couple of years, is it pretty much like business as usual (it's the two of us and one child), assuming the system was cared for properly in the past?



Anything else I'm missing or should be concerned about with either system? Assuming the rest of the house is in good order, this seems like a good deal... more than double our current square footage and 2 acres of wooded/landscaped land.

[David Weaver]

On town water now, but grew up with a septic and four people in the house. Parents are still on it and with well water.

In general, I thought the water from the well was FAR better than town water, even the town water run through something rudimentary like an activated charcoal filter. We had a particle filter, but that was it. It became brown surprisingly quickly, though we didn't have to change it more than four times a year. I guess if you don't have a filter, you just drink that stuff and it goes through, the water otherwise looked clear and looking at a foot long round filter element that had 15,000 gallons of water through it is probably misleading about how dirty the water actually is.

FIL is using a softener, and because his water didn't test well in terms of bacteria, a UV system to kill the bacteria.

We didn't throw *anything* down the drain. I'm sure the septic can handle it, but when it comes down to it, what we had could either go in the woods (or a compost pile) or in the trash and really not amount to much additional work compared to the convenience of just dumping food waste into the garbage disposal. With four of us on the system, we had to have the septic pumped about every 5 or 6 years, IIRC.

My wife and I still don't put much down the disposal even though we're on town water and sewer, because we grew up not doing it. In my head, it just seems like the more liquid and less solid that line out of the house and to the street has, the fewer troubles I'll have.

[Chuck Darney]

We've always had well water and septic tank.

For water, you're right...no power, no water. Unless your power goes out frequently and for long periods of time, this isn't too much of an issue. My power WOULD go out frequently and for long periods of time - several days were possible. I finally got a standby generator that can handle the entire house. It has helped a couple of times and I consider it money well spent. For me the lack of water for the times the power was out was less of a concern than the lack of heat since the natural gas furnace blower wouldn't work. This was a much greater concern when the kids were young. A week without power in January was not much fun.

We have our septic system pumped every two or three years. We probably don't need it that often now that the three kids are out of the house and it's just me and my wife. I asked the guy who pumps the system about the bacteria additives and he said they were a great scam that have very little, if any, effect. If you get the system pumped, do it again in two years. You'll have a good sense of the buildup and may find that two years is too soon...or too long.

In general, septic systems are failing from the day they're installed. Properly maintained they should last a long time though.

I've never had a garbage disposal so I really can't speak to how it would affect my septic system

[Tom M King]

Water quality, and volume, depends on the well, and type of well. Ours is a "deep" drilled well in granite, and I wouldn't trade the water for any other. On our third pump in 34 years. I put in a constant pressure Grundfos system the last time, and it's a big improvement over the old pressure switch that allowed a 20 pound variation. A generator is needed anyway, so when a hurricane knocks out the power for any length of time, the well gets run along with the other stuff on the generator.

Septic tank is not much of a worry if the land perks well. There are some newer types of systems for the drain lines these days that work a lot better than what was used in the past. Here, pumping the tank is subsidized by the county, and it only costs a hundred bucks. Even at that, every five or six years has worked just fine here. No garbage disposal here, but I have thought about putting one in that went to the compost pile.

I hang the pump on a stainless steel cable. At the top of the well, there is a loop in the cable with about twenty feet of extra length. On the cable below the loop is a pulley attached to a short piece of chain. When the pump needs to be pulled, I park the front end loader over the well, with the bucket up over the top of the well, put the chain with the pulley in the chain hook on top of the bucket, loop attaches to truck hitch, and the truck pulls the pump right out. It also eases it back in. A couple of helpers handle the pipe and wire as it goes in and out. This has saved me many hundreds of dollars and time waiting for a well guy to get there.

[Prashun Patel]

I don't have well, but I do have septic. My intimidation of septic has diminished over the 10 years I've owned it. Ours is relatively new, though: 2003.

The maintenance isn't bad. I never throw bacteria into it proactively. I just have it pumped every two years (we're a family of 4). Occasionally the cleanout ports in the field get clipped by a lawn mower, so it's about as easy to fix as a broken sprinkler head on an irrigation line.

I am unsure if the technology has changed much over time. Our system is passive: sewage goes into a tank, the 'compost tea' rises in the tank to an overflow point where it drains into a leaching field. The field itself is largely a series of perforated pvc pipes and rock and sand. As long as the surface of your field is free of everything but grass, the system should last indefinitely if well maintained. I imagine the system should last about as well as your indoor plumbing does. I am unsure what kind of piping they used in the 80's, though.

My only gripe with the system is that it is in our usable yard. So it has done funny things to the grass over the field, and we are not allowed to build, drive, or install over the components.

My partner has a well. He has a battery backup for the pump. His issue is pressure - especially for lawn irrigation.

[Jamie Buxton]

A different fix for the water supply during power outages is a larger water tank. Most well tanks operate by the well pump pressurizing the storage tank, so you do have pressure for a while after the electricity goes out. How long depends on how big your tank is. And if you can place the tank above the house, you can use gravity to feed the house during an electrical outage. Gravity never goes out.

Need for a water filter depends on your water. Maybe you have sediment in yours, or maybe you have minerals like iron, or maybe sulphates (rotten eggs smell). Your local well service guy likely knows what your aquifer supplies. Or you live with what's already on the property, and see if you want to add more kinds of filtering.


Yeah, living with a septic system is pretty much like living with a sewer system. Don't put stuff down it that you shouldn't. Pumping frequency depends on how many people are using the system.

[Mark Bolton]

In our experience the main issue with septic is waxes, detergents. Those are the main killers of a leach field. The waxes and oils in manufactured detergents and cleaning products as well as other sources continually coat the leach field eventually reducing the absorption of the soil. That said, with so many more environmentally friendly detergents out now (even in the main steam products) it's getting better.

Anything organic is broken down over time which is the way it's suppose to work.

The only other major septic killer is when a baffle falls off in the tank and allows solids to flow into the leach. There is a crust layer and of course anything that floats at the top of the tank (paper, corn, and.. well, floaters, but those are less common in the US with poor diets hah.. everything sinks). If the baffle falls off in a conctete tank or a PVC baffle comes off and you don't realize it for some time you can destroy your leach in short order. Generally the pumping company checks the baffles when they are pumped but if not caught in time....

Wells are so variable it would be nice to get a water sample to know for sure.

You've covered the power issues...

[Matt Meiser]

If the baffle falls off in a conctete tank or a PVC baffle comes off and you don't realize it for some time you can destroy your leach in short order. Generally the pumping company checks the baffles when they are pumped but if not caught in time....

This is really easy to fix too, and inexpensive. If you are willing to do it yourself, its about $10 worth of PVC. I GLADLY paid $100 to have it done :D

[Dave Sheldrake]

I have two unused wells, both into granite bedrock, one is 65 feet the other 130 feet but both sell fill to within 5 feet of the surface due to a natural spring. It used to be the supply for the entire village about 200 years ago.
We don't use either but were told a pumping system could be installed that would both draw the water and keep it clean. I'm toying with the idea of using well water plumbed in for sanitation such as Toilets but don't really want all the hastle of using it for drinking water.

cheers

Dave

[Wade Lippman]

Some well water is good and requires nothing more than a filter. Other is disgusting and requires extensive treatment. I wouldn't worry about the first, but wouldn't go near the second.

Around here we have nothing but shale, so septic systems are expensive and difficult to maintain since the ground won't absorb water. Probably not a problem for you, but worth checking out first.

Personally I wouldn't be without public utilities, but there is always a trade off. Two miles down my road the utilities end and the home prices drop significantly.

[Lee Schierer]

Before you buy the house have the well and septic tested, including a flow test on the well, to make sure they are okay. Failed septic systems can be very expensive to repair or replace as most locales have stricter rules now on what can and can't be done. We had to change our system when the leach field failed and it cost $18,000 for a new approved system. My daughter had to replace hers in NJ at a cost of $12,000. Septic systems typically last for 20-30 years depending upon the soil before serious work needs to be done.

We've had well and septic for over 35 years in our current house. With regard to no water when the power goes out, your pressure tank will hold a reserve of water that can be used. Since we use our well for our heat system in addition to household water we have a large pressure tank that gives us up to about 45 gallons of water depending upon where in the discharge fill cycle the power goes out. We use the water sparingly, but since power outages in our area are usually short we've not had a problem running out.

Using a garbage disposal will add to the load on the septic system and you will probably need to get it pumped more often. Also, using a septic additive like Bio Sure or Rid-Ex will help and does no harm.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm in the process of buying a house with septic and well so I've done some research. I also have friends with septic systems. In the area I am moving to the water table is fairly high with lots of wet areas. Almost all new septic systems are mound systems instead of a traditional leach field system. Older houses with the original systems still have leach fields, but most will need mounds when they fail. Traditional septic systems with leach fields locally seem to last 20 to 30 years before they fail. My friend bought a 1970s hose in 2000. He dodged a bullet because the septic failed inspection and the seller had to pay for a new system.

The state of Minnesota requires pumping every three years. Some will install a garbage disposal since the tank needs to be pumped fairly often. I talked with a septic inspector and he doesn't recommend a garbage disposal on any septic system.

The house I am buying had a new mound septic system installed in 2011. That is one reason I choose the house. I would much rather have city services as any savings from no utility bill are quickly eaten up by pumping and eventual replacement costs.

[Dave Anderson NH]

The rules vary by situation and location Dan. Lee is correct. The first step is testing of the well and septic. Any offer should be based on the results as fixing or replacing either is a major cost. I have a 380ft drilled well delivering 75gpm which cost me $10,000 3 years ago to replace an overrated and under delivering well put in by the contractor who built the house 25 years ago. Being empty nesters we pump out the 1200 gallon septic tank every 3 years strictly to keep my wife happy though the pumping contractor told us with our small load every 5 years was plenty. Being in a northern climate and having had at least one power outage of 2 days or more for each of the last 5 years we finally put in a 14kw propane powered auto start generator system. Being without water or heat for 6 days in NH in mid December is not much fun. Before getting the generator I figure we threw out a total of over $2000 in food from our refrigerator and freezer during the 4 major outages and I might be seriously underestimating. For comfort, convenience, and peace of mind the expense of the generator system was well worth the money spent.

[David Weaver]

Some well water is good and requires nothing more than a filter. Other is disgusting and requires extensive treatment. I wouldn't worry about the first, but wouldn't go near the second.

Around here we have nothing but shale, so septic systems are expensive and difficult to maintain since the ground won't absorb water. Probably not a problem for you, but worth checking out first.

Personally I wouldn't be without public utilities, but there is always a trade off. Two miles down my road the utilities end and the home prices drop significantly.

I'd imagine that it won't be too long before they get extended and those folks are forced to go online with the utilities. Where my parents are, public sewer is being run first, and there is an option to take it now and have a subsidized hookup (half or something?) or defer and pay full price to get hooked up later (can't remember the required date to go online, 5 years from now or something). That ruffles the feathers of the people who have a good septic and water that tests well, but that's just the way it goes, I guess. 25 years ago, there wasn't any public water within several miles...never would've believed that at 4 miles outside of town, that they'd ever be required to be on town water and sewer. Water will come a few years longer down the road, but it will follow.

[Ryan Mooney]

The first step is testing of the well and septic. Any offer should be based on the results as fixing or replacing either is a major cost.

This this this.

If the well water looks, smells or tastes bad it can be terribly hard or impossible to fix so run the taps and smell it when it first runs out and after its run a bit and take a drink. Send a sample off to be tested (the local ag extension will usually do this pretty cheap). If you can get the original well reports those are useful to have as well as well as any recent maintenance records (how new is the pump? the pressure tank?). Finding out if there are points of unusual wear is also useful (like is the well pumping up sand - which can be hard on the pump).

Also cost to run a well varies depending on local (electricity) and depth. The last house we ran about $180/mo in extra electric in the summer (at $0.07/hw our winter bills were < $100 and summer bills > $280, we didn't run AC much but did use electric heat so the majority of the summer cost was the pump) for the pump to water the trees and pasture. That was on a 320' well with a 40gpm pump. So if you can get the previous years electric bills from the seller (can't hurt to ask :D). If not you can do some math on the depth and expected volume and get a rough idea.

Septic maintenance varies wildly depending on the terrain and install. Get a qualified septic inspector out to give it a once over. Not cheap but a lit cheaper than finding out you have to remediate once you're in there!

[Dan Hintz]

Many thanks for the replies so far, guys... some really good info in there, exactly what I was looking for (fodder to help create new, more specific questions). If we move forward with this, the intent was always to have both systems fully tested... but if I didn't find comfort in anyone's responses, there wasn't much point in going further with it. From the sound of it, it's something I should consider, but I will need to sit down for a while and come up with a list of questions for the owners... when was the system installed, what type is it, any issues, do heavy rains cause any issues, how often do you have it pumped, what's the flowrate on the well, etc.

I may drive the agent up the wall by the time this is over ;)

[Kevin Godshall]

I have a drilled well, and my septic runs into a 110' sand mound. Here are some of my thoughts:

Power going out: I live rural. It is just an expected thing. Genny is on standby, but haven't had to use it yet. I've had to replace my submersible well pump 1x in 20 years, and also my pressure tank 1x. Water is hard here with limestone, so I use a water softener.

Septic: Started off with a leach field, but the piping broke and could not get a perk test to pass (heavy clay soil), so I had to fork over for a sand mound. Sand mound has it's own dousing tank with submersible in it, so need to really watch the septic tank to make sure solids aren't transferring over. Even with a leech field, solids exiting = $$$$.

Emptying tank depends on lots of variables (I have 5 years experience in running a package treatment waste plant, as well); Hard water causes detergents and likes to solidify in tank. Garbage disposals can add too much solids, but will work OK if the tank is routinely pumped. My tank is pumped out about once every 3 years, and I make sure to pick the "sewer sucker's" brain about what he's seeing come out, and how to remedy it. Some outfits can flush your leech field and the best sewer suckers back flush your lines when they empty them.

Depending on how old your house is, your gray water (washing machine) may go into a separate tank. Now, all of it runs together on newer. Some places are going radical and forcing individuals to have to do sand mounts or package treatment plants (need certification).

I live rural and I take the responsibility for living away from the public supply. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Best.

[Nike Nihiser]

Most well systems don't have a "storage tank" they have a pressure tank. They are not the same thing. Putting the pressure tank above the house won't change how it operates, and in climates where it freezes you would have to make sure it was insulated. The pressure tank has a bladder inside that is pressurized to a set psi, there is a switch that senses this at a lower end set point, when the water pressure hits this low point the pump comes on, it then switches off at a higher set point. In between those set points the pump does not cycle off and on, but you still have water at a tap. This keeps the pump from switching off and on every time the tap is opened say for just a drink of water or to fill a toilet bowl. Pumps fail most often from cycling on and off too frequently

[Ryan Mooney]

Note - you'd mostly see storage tanks where you have a lot flow well so you have a buffer around daily usage.

Pressure tank bladders do go bad, but pressure tanks aren't exceptionally expensive to replace so it wouldn't be a deal killer for me.

[Rich Enders]

We were city folk, and the 4 of us moved to rural NE Ohio into an 1840's "Century House". Our septic system had a main tank that flowed into a second tank which flowed into a leach field. Because the homesites were as small as three acres the community encouraged everyone to be neighborly and pump every year. They negotiated a killer deal with the local pumper who came by and did entire neighborhoods. It worked flawlessly for the seven years that we lived there even though we treated it as if it were city sewer.

Our well was in the basement with access from the outside above via a bayed out part of the basement wall. Initially the water tested OK, and the the pressure held during the simultaneous two shower two flush executive test. After about 4-5 years the well would not keep up with our teenage daughters shower requirements so we had it punched down another 10 feet. Other than frequent testing having well water for us was pretty painless.

[Larry Browning]

Wow! you guys are scaring me! We had our house built about 18 years ago. It is on the rural water system, so no well, but it does have a septic system. We have never done anything in the way of maintenance to the system, except the leech lines have a valve that I flip at each changes from and to daylight saving time. We have never had a single problem of any kind with it. Yet some of you have your systems pumped every 2 years?!? And they are only supposed to last 20 years or so?!? AFAIK, none of my neighbors have theirs pumped either. It makes me wonder if we are headed for a problem in the future. Our builder strongly suggested we not install a disposal, so we did not. Instead, we have a trash compactor which has worked out very well and we have never missed having a disposal, even though we had lived with one all our married life prior to this house.

[Charles Wiggins]

I've had more problems out of sewer systems than septic systems. I've lived two places where we had sewage back up into our place because of stuff the neighbors flushed.

Our current place and the house we owned previously both have city water but septic waste systems, and both have a second "grey water" septic for the laundry waste water. I like that because it keeps bleach and Oxiclean out of the main tank so they aren't killing of the bacteria that is processing the bathroom waste. We have a disposal but we don't use it much. We collect compost in small canisters and dump it every few days.

I still use a septic treatment additive about every six months. We lived at the first place about 5 years and we've been in our current one 4 years and we never had either pumped. We were going to have our current one pumped, just as a precaution when we first bought the house, but at the time there was only one septic service in the county, and the bubba that they sent out (twice) couldn't find the tank and wanted to bring in a backhoe. This is a reminder that I really need to get that done.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Like others have said, test the water and septic. Local counties will do basic water testing for around $20. Shop around for septic inspections. Prices vary a lot. Same thing with septic pumping. You can make it a condition of the purchase that the sellers pump their septic and have it inspected.

Depending upon the age of the house, there should be a Septic As-Built and Well Log on file with the county Health Department. You may even find Soil Logs to go with the As-Built. Some counties are great and all it takes is a phone call and they will email you the data based on the parcel number or address. Others require a trip to their office. If there is no well log on file, you will need to have a well driller come out and create a log for you.

Regarding Wells. You'll want to know the GPM and drawdown of that well. You'll also want to know if it's a shared well and who has to do the maintenance. States & Counties vary, but you typically need to keep a 100' buffer around the well head to prevent contamination of the water (livestock and septic system should not be in the buffer zone.). The less GPM the well produces, the more you have to conserve. We had neighbors (elderly couple) with a 1/2 GPM well and they had to collect rain water to flush the toilets and do their laundry in town. If they filled the livestock tank, then they may not have water for dishes, baths, etc because the well was so slow to recover. If the well only produces minimal GPM, then a large 1000+ gallon holding tank is typically used. It's basically up to you on how often you test your water. If it is known to have some stuff in it, I personally would feel more comfortable to test it more regularly, while others test it once and call it good. Lots of good water filter systems out there too. (That has been discussed a few times on this forum.)

Regarding Septic. Gravity, Pressure, Sand Filtration, Mound, Glendon, pumps, no pumps, timers, alarms, so many different options out there. Some types of systems you rarely need to think about, while others require regular monitoring of the timers to pump X number of times a day. This is another thing they don't like to have livestock on in case they damage it by digging or whatever. You also don't want to drive heavy equipment over a drain field in case you happen to crush something. Landscaping is also a factor. You don't want to put plants on it that have root systems known to damage septic systems. If the septic is on timers, they will need to be reset/reprogrammed after power failures. Some States and Counties require regular inspections now and will provide a homeowner class so that you can do your own inspection.

If your area is prone to power outages, then you may want to consider a generator for the well & septic, but only if the outages are for days at a time. If power only goes out for less then a day, you can get by with the water in the pressure tank, hot water tank and lines as long as you don't go overboard.

As for garbage disposals. We don't use them. Any (non-meat) food scraps are given to the livestock.

[Mark Bolton]

I personally would never trade city municipal services and fees for a good well and septic. Of course you'd have go amortize out the cost of the system and maintenance and replacement against the city municipal fees but for me personally I would trade those monthly/quarterly fees in a heart beat for my own system.

Of course in densely populated areas it wouldn't work, but I'd much rather have a septic an a decent well over city sewer and water any day.

Don't be blanketly afraid of it.. it's good to do your homework but just imagine if you have a good well, and a septic that will last a long time, your monthly nut is cut by a substantial amount
A no-brainer for me.

[Dan Hintz]

Again, all good points. I didn't realize you could just drill a drying well a bit deeper and essentially replenish it, but it makes perfect sense. I'm adding to the list of questions I intend to ask the owner... where is the tank, field and wellhead located, and so on.

[Brian Elfert]

I was paying about $35 a month for water and sewer for just myself. If I figure I'll need a new septic system and possibly a new well in the next 20 to 30 years so it would cost me about $47 a month over 30 years with a septic system. A septic system is simply a requirement to live on acreage that isn't $200,000 or more an acre. (One 1/2 acre lot with sewer in the city just sold for $175,000.) I'm not saving any money in the long run.

I don't like septic because it can't handle as much as city sewer can. Well water can be almost undrinkable here even though it is perfectly safe.

[Ryan Mooney]

I didn't realize you could just drill a drying well a bit deeper and essentially replenish it, but it makes perfect sense.

Sometimes this is true :D Its really dependent on the geology and I certainly wouldn't count on it without getting in someone who knew about the area pretty well (and even then there can be a lot of site specific details but a good well driller who's been in the area a while can usually eyeball it fairly well).

Other times you bust through the aquifer you're in and into a different one (or worse none at all). Water flows and sits underground very much like it does above but in three dimensions. You can have a well sunk into a "basin" aquifer which might well be dry underneath the boundary layer so if you dig deeper you can end up below it (or deeper into it in which case then yes you do have more water). You can also have underground rivers/streams that you tap into where if you are above or below them there might not be any water either. Other times there is water but its different water (maybe better.. maybe not).

As an example at the last house our well was ~350' with static pressure at ~280' and we had pretty good if somewhat hard water (some nitrates in spring because we were essentially tapping side flow from a river that went by us). Our neighbours (who were above us by maybe 50') had a 180' well and their water ran red with iron and smelled like sulfur. Their well was in a different aquifer than we were and when they drilled our well they drilled through the one with icky water and into the better water below. This of course also meant that we paid more to run the pump than they did (the cost to dig another 180's well for cheaper pumping wouldn't have paid back in any reasonable time though).

This isn't to freak you out, because 99% of the tiem you're fine - especially if you have a decent flow rate to start with and reasonable differential between the bottom of the well and the static level. A friend of mine actually had his pump raised some because that way he didn't have to push so much head (cheaper) and its not to hard to add another length or two of pipe do drop it back down.

[Brian Elfert]

I was talking with a builder about possibly building a new house. The well driller they used suggested going down a fair bit deeper because the water deeper down is better quality. It isn't always a matter of just drilling until you hit water. I'm not sure how deep the well on the house I'm buying is, or how good the water is. I do know the water is safe to drink because the bank had the well tested.

[Brian Elfert]

Again, all good points. I didn't realize you could just drill a drying well a bit deeper and essentially replenish it, but it makes perfect sense. I'm adding to the list of questions I intend to ask the owner... where is the tank, field and wellhead located, and so on.

Here in Minnesota it is common to have a compliance check done on a septic system at time of sale. On bank owned houses the the bank normally has a septic compliance test done before the house is listed for sale. The bank has no idea if the septic is good or not. On a traditional sale I don't know if a compliance check is normally done or not. I would sure want one on any house I was going to buy. The bank in my case also had the well tested which is cheap to do anyhow.

[Stan Calow]

My understanding, around here most lenders will require testing of wells before financing.

[Larry Frank]

A lot depends on the particular location. I have both a septic system and a well. I had to put in a mound system when the septic system was about 18 years old. It really depends on the type of soil that you have. I have hard clay that does not drain well. I have the tanks for the septic mound pumped about every 2 years. I could go longer but the cost of having a major repair to the mound system is so great that I will just do the preventative maintenance.

As to well water....I have extremely bad water with high hardness, sulfur, manganese and iron. However, all is good as I found a very good water treatment guy who has been working with mine for 35 years. I have a filter/air oxidizer system that uses air to oxidize the iron, manganese, and sulfur which is filtered out. This system takes no maintenance and back washes every night. The softener is after it and finishes the treatment. I will take my treated water over any chlorinated city water. You have to find someone who knows the area water and how to treat it and not just some salesman.

If I were looking at a new home with a well and septic, I would pay for a testing on both the water and septic and also find out what the soil type is. With the water, get it tested as it comes from the well and then after treatment. If you pay for the tests, you are more likely to get a good assessment.

I think the key to these systems is maintenance and knowing what you have.

One last thought, if the power is out it is nice to have a barrel of water to add buckets to the toliet tank and to have a case of bottle water sitting around. The power requirement for a well pump is pretty high especially the starting current and getting a generator that size and getting it wire properly is a pretty big cost.

[Lee Schierer]

Yet some of you have your systems pumped every 2 years?!? And they are only supposed to last 20 years or so?!? AFAIK, none of my neighbors have theirs pumped either. It makes me wonder if we are headed for a problem in the future.

Septic systems work by anaerobic bacteria breaking down the organic matter you put down the various drains. This process produces certain amounts of gas, water and ash. The ash accumulates in the tank, settling on the bottom. The water is supposed to be put into the ground by the leach field. When the ash level reaches the height of the outlet to the leach field, you can fill your leach field with ash, which is bad and will clog the field. Pumping the tank periodically removes this ash and prevents it from getting into the leach field. Tanks should be pumped every 2-5 years depending upon the tank size and amount of material being put in it each year.

More and more these days, local & state governments are restricting what septic designs can and cannot be used in a local area to prevent potential pollution of the ground water and other sanitation issues. Most of the approved designs and repair solutions do not come cheap so regular maintenance is a way to avoid or at least postpone major expenditures.

[Mark Bolton]

When the ash level reaches the height of the outlet to the leach field, you can fill your leach field with ash, which is bad and will clog the field

This isn't really true. The baffles in the tank, as long as they are present, prevent anything other than clear water from flowing into the leach. There is an inlet baffle which is there to deposit solids below the scum layer and there is an outlet baffle to prevent any floating material (solids) from following into the leach. There should never be anything other than clear water flowing into the leach.

There is no point at which material begins or stops flowing into the leach. For every single eye dropper of material that flows into the tank there is the exact amount expelled. It's a one for one ratio other than any miniscule allowance for tank seepage in a concrete tank.

A spoon full in equals a spoon full out.

If anyone fills their tank to the level of hitting the baffles there is no solids flowing to the leach. The tank will stall and you will shortly have a blockage internal to the home. The system is designed to stall the flow from the residence and never allow solids to flow to the leach.

If you do happen to ever hit this point you either have a drastically undersized septic or your family needs to eat far less food. Most septics can practically handle years and years without pumping. Many go decades and are still well functioning. No different than changing the oil in your car though it's better to be safe than sorry..

[Ole Anderson]

Boy, I thought this is a question I can really add some content, being a civil engineer and all. Frankly I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said. All I can do is relate my personal experience. I live in a subdivision that was built in segments, the most recent is now 40 years old. Neighbors on both sides have wells, those across the street are on the subdivision municipal well system. Knowing the folks at the county, I was able to connect to the municipal well system when I built and I am glad I did. Wells need replacing once in a while, I don't have that hassle. And I have water when the power fails as the well is on a generator. A lot of iron up close to the well, but it seems to settle out before it gets to me so I don't see much of an iron issue. Great tasting water by the way. Municipal wells around here are in sand/gravel and 200-300 feet deep thanks to the glaciers. Our soils are also sand/gravel, but do vary lot by lot. Our soil is prime for a septic system. I built the house 39 years ago and have pumped the tank, I think, three times. And yes I am due to pump and karma probably has me due for a new field. Unless it is a raised field, there are no indications in my 400 lot sub by looking as to where the leaching fields are.

Folks that have always lived on a sewer system seem to freak about having to do with a septic tank and leaching field. In reality, a properly designed system with good soils is better than a sewer where you eventually dump all of that waste into somebody's river even after treatment. We don't dump copious amounts of stuff down the garbage disposal, mainly dinner plate scrapings. The bigger issue is what you flush down the toilet. Plenty of bacteria there, no need to spend money on Ridex or other septic tank treatments. Just don't flush a lot of wipes or disposable diapers down and you should be ok. And don't worry, any kind of TP is ok. Tanks are designed to first skim off the grease and floating scum, then allow heavier solids to settle to the bottom with fairly "clean" water exiting the tank to the field.

Around here we refer to the bottom deposit as sludge, never heard it referred to as ash, must be a local term. Maybe ash just sounds more refined than sludge.

[Myk Rian]

assuming the system was cared for properly in the past?
This is key, and something you may never know.
I do not recommend a disposer. Backup power for the well, as well as everything else in the house.

We've had well/septic for 37 years in this house. The last field gave out 25+ years ago. It was an older tile style field and had collapsed.

[Justin Ludwig]

Let me preface my post by saying I haven't read everyone's posts. With that said:

We have a 120ft well that pumps some of the hardest water in the county. It's full of iron, manganese, magnesium and sulfur. It'll stain porcelain in a week if not filtered. We set up two 300 gallon reservoir tanks in a custom built well house. I built an aerating spray bar out of PVC that separates the sulfur when entering holding tank 1. Tank 1 and 2 are connected via 1" gravity line 2 inches off the bottom (allowing sediments to go undisturbed). Tank 2 has a couple fish tank aerators to separate any remaining sulfur. From there the water runs through a 110v jet pump that supplies the house. Between the house and jet pump, we installed a set of 4 filters (5 micron) run in parallel to get the remaining junk out of the water. What comes out of the ground as a dingy brownish mess (still drinkable) comes into the house clear and clean. We still use 2 reverse osmosis units in the laundry room to clean our drinking water because my wife is a germ-a-phobe.

Back up power is only needed from a small generator that provides 110v. Last year's ice storm had us out of power for 4 days. We didn't do laundry and we hand washed minimal dishes. The toilets will use the most water, so the rule was: "If it's brown flush it down, if it's yellow let it mellow!" :D We used less than 100 gallons.

As for the septic: no grease, tell the wife not to use half a roll of TP each sitting, and NO feminine hygiene products to be flushed! As long as it was perc tested properly when installed and properly plumbed, you should have minimum upkeep. We use our garbage disposal on a regular basis and have no problems.

[Matt Meiser]

This is key, and something you may never know.

Actually its easier to find out than I would have ever imagined. The guy who did the inspection here probes around over the field, finds a tile a little ways out from the tank and digs a hole for an inspection. He can see what's in the gravel and soil, and with PVC he can cut a flap in the pipe and look inside.

Backup--you don't need a huge generator. We had typical portable (maybe 6500W?) and it ran our well and a lot of other essentials just fine for days. The backup generator we put in a couple years ago was definitely nicer but the worked as long as I was home to hook it up.

[Mike Lassiter]

Dan I have both well and septic system. Both installed when I bought property in 1996. Water has a little iron in it which requires a "bladder tank" to keep rust from forming inside pressure tank. Later I installed a filter inside house that removed it. Never really bad but over time white clothes would turn yellowish from washing. Anyway, I have had to replace the in ground pressure tank twice, still on original pump; and never had septic tank pumped out. First few years 4-5 living here and since only 2.

When the health department came to do the perk test, it was the day after we have a huge rain and we had to install a "curtain drain" across part of our yard partly due to a field beside our yard which is higher than the yard. During the peak of summer I can tell exactly where the field lines are in my front yard because the grass turns brown from lack of water. Typically you see most have a dark green grass where their field lines run due to the extra water they put into the ground - we use little enough I guess that the lines actually allow the water in the ground above them to wick down away from the surface enough to dry out the ground.

Zero problems. Here the minimum city water bill is around $22 or so a month. While it does cost to run the well, it am sure with the limited amount of water we use that we have saved hundreds over the years living here by having a well. Well cost $2100 to install in 1996. Tanks replaced because rubber bladder inside became porous and the air charge in the tank seeped through the rubber into the water. You will know it because when you turn on the water the water will cycle with the pump cycling on and off (not good for pump). Tanks without the rubber bladder will become "water logged" sometimes and the air cushion in the tank will gradually become lost and the same thing - pump has no air cushion and will quickly spike pressure and pressure switch will quickly cycle on and off and water pressure will fluctuate rapidly. There is a valve that can be installed in the pressure tank called an air volume control valve, that is suppose to prevent this automatically, but my mother in law had it on her well and the tank filled with air to the point that the tank would completely empty of water and stir the sentiment up at the bottom of the tank and she was getting muddy rusty water out. They thought the well had gone out, but all it needed was turning off the well and draining the tank of air, removing the pipe plug at the top of the tank and turning the pump back on to fill the tank about 1/2 or 2/3 full then putting the pipe plug back in the tank. Water level was so low in the tank the air volume was enough that the air was blowing out after the tank ran out of water. Simple fix - she hadn't had water in days when my wife told me about it. It took about 15 minutes to fix it,
I don't have a garbage disposal, we live in the "country" and just take scrapes outside and either put them in a dozer pile I have on property or wherever my wife decides and the neighborhood pets and raccoons, possums and so forth eat them at night when they are out foraging.

City sewer rates here are tied to water usage, and many cities around the sewer is higher cost than the water. Watering garden, or yard is a double cost because you are paying for the water and paying for sewer to treat it too. Water bills in several surrounding towns have increased 30-70% of late due to small cities having to cover the cost of treating their water, and once city just on the local news showed one lady saying her newest water bill was $131 not counting sewer and garbage. That makes a well look pretty good in my book. I had no choice here when I bought the land. No city water to my area - but they did run a natural gas line to me since I have a gas furnace and stove. I have ran a 5000 watt generator maybe 3-4 times in 17 years for about 2 days max over the years due to severe storms downing many power lines all around and trees down across the roads type situation. Had to drive to Jackson - about 30 miles away and around town there then to find a gas station that had power to get gas for generator. Future plans to get a generator that will run on natural gas as a stand by.
Power outages happen fairly regular but normally just a matter of minutes or hours and they will not be too big a concern as you know the toilets are full of water and can be flushed once at least, what you don't know is how full the pressure tank is when the power goes out. It could be "full" or just about to the level that the pump was about to cut on, which might mean you get 3 - 5 gallons out of it and then run out. Unless you get a huge pressure tank you will have maybe 15 - 25 gallons of water to draw down out of the tank before it is empty. The main purpose of the tank isn't really to hold a big storage volume of water so much at to provide a cushion to the pump were it doesn't cut on every time you turn on the water to get a glass full or fill coffee pot. You will have to learn to limit usage while power is out coming from the city were that hasn't been a issue before. It's not a big deal really, just an "adjustment" to living in the country.:)

[Dan Hintz]

Looked it up last night... the house was built in '87. Has there been anything more than mild changes/updates in septic system design over the years that would warrant paying closer attention to what's likely in the ground? For example, maybe it was common to use plastic tanks that often failed within 30 years, that sort of thing.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

In the VI we use cisterns to catch rainwater. Sounds primitive, but the cistern is a concrete structure like a swimming pool. If you keep it bleached every now and then it's perfectly clean. I have never had to buy water. We get enough rain to keep it full. We also have notorious island-wide blackouts. The pressure tank keeps enough pressure for a couple of flushes and brushing your teeth. If it stays off a long time you dip a bucket in the cistern and bathe with it. I would not worry about power outages.

I do not drink the cistern water but I had housemates that did. Recently I moved to the downtown area- the only area with public water, but I also have a cistern. The public water is so nasty that I prefer to keep it as a backup.

[Jim Becker]

1) Well water can be "da best"...no chlorine taste and nice and cold year round. But yes, it can have some "regional" taste based on minerals, etc. Whether or not you do any treatment depends on a water analysis. Sediment filtration is a must but beyond that it depends. My water has way too much fines in it to use something like charcoal filtration unless it was a double filtration situation. We don't do any further treatment as our water tests out naturally soft, albeit acidic from the limestone mountain we are at the base of.

2) Septic systems should be pumped every 2-3 years typically, but it depends upon usage. As to the system itself, in almost all cases, the local jurisdiction will be inspecting it as part of the sale process. If it's old, they will require it be replaced as part of the change of ownership. In many cases, the seller is on the hook for most of the cost but there will often be negotiation. When we moved in here, we had to contribute $5K and the seller put out $15 of the then $20K cost. When we put on our major addition, we had to have the field replaced as it was not large enough for the additional bathrooms by code. That was another $25K at that point from cost escalations over time. And in many areas of the country, traditional leach field are no longer allowed. Sand mounds have replaced them. We effectively have a sand mound setup, but because of the physical conditions of the specific area it was installed on the hill behind our house, it was able to be constructed underground so there was no change in grade.

For us, loss of power in a sense means loss of both water and septic because effluent is pumped up the hill to the field. Not an issue with the latter for short term, but for a very long outage it could be an issue, even though we have a 1500 gallon septic tank and a 500 gallon pump tank. We will be installing whole-house generation in the very recent future...as soon as I can fund it. I planned on doing that last fall, but this year has been a bit tougher financially and I haven't been able to do it yet.

[Brian Elfert]

The city I was living in bases your sewage costs on your water usage in the winter months. They assume most of your extra water usage in the summer months is not going into the sewer system. Higher water rates do discourage using large amounts of city water to irrigate grass. People with wells figure it is nearly free to irrigate their grass not thinking about what happens when the aquifers dry up. There are areas of the USA where aquifers have dried up, or are drying up.

I question why a four bedroom house like the one I am buying needs a 600 gallon per day septic system. If you figure five people in the house at most they would each need to put 125 gallons a day into the septic system.

[Mark Bolton]

The city I was living in bases your sewage costs on your water usage in the winter months. They assume most of your extra water usage in the summer months is not going into the sewer system. Higher water rates do discourage using large amounts of city water to irrigate grass. People with wells figure it is nearly free to irrigate their grass not thinking about what happens when the aquifers dry up. There are areas of the USA where aquifers have dried up, or are drying up.

I question why a four bedroom house like the one I am buying needs a 600 gallon per day septic system. If you figure five people in the house at most they would each need to put 125 gallons a day into the septic system.

That's actually not far off from the average US household when you factor in everthing from showering, toilet, baths, laundry, dishwasher, and so on.

I personally use a mere fraction of that but all you have to do is look at the end of peoples driveway on trash day to see how flagrantly wasteful the average household is today. If you think they are putting out that much trash per week and are somehow "reasonable" with their water use,.. well,.. I don't know what to tell ya.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

We have an aerobic septic system because of our heavy soil. It uses sprinklers instead of a leach field, the water is treated to the level of the recycled water used to irrigate golf courses. It cost a lot more than a leach field system, uses electricity and the county requires us to keep a maintenance agreement agreement for it. That's not all bad because the company inspects the system yearly as part of the contract. It also makes the minimum lot size larger to accomodate the sprinkler area.

[Brian Elfert]

That's actually not far off from the average US household when you factor in everthing from showering, toilet, baths, laundry, dishwasher, and so on.

I personally use a mere fraction of that but all you have to do is look at the end of peoples driveway on trash day to see how flagrantly wasteful the average household is today. If you think they are putting out that much trash per week and are somehow "reasonable" with their water use,.. well,.. I don't know what to tell ya.

The house I just sold I averaged about 75 gallons a day in water use for the entire house, but I lived alone. I really didn't do anything to save water, but I didn't waste it either. I figure a household of five isn't automatically going to use five times as much water as certain water uses don't up with more people. 600 gallons a day just struck me as a lot of water to use.

I had the smallest trash can available and I rarely filled it up. Often I only took it to the curb every other week. A family down the street had two of the largest trash cans available and they were overflowing every week.

[Ruperto Mendiones]

Be certain you have exclusive use. A shared well easement is nothing but a pita. We have one where two of four parties use the well heavily and two do not use it at all. Endless disputes regarding maintenance costs vs usage! Your title company should identify if there is such an easement or agreement recorded.

[Mark Bolton]

The house I just sold I averaged about 75 gallons a day in water use for the entire house, but I lived alone. I really didn't do anything to save water, but I didn't waste it either. I figure a household of five isn't automatically going to use five times as much water as certain water uses don't up with more people. 600 gallons a day just struck me as a lot of water to use.

I had the smallest trash can available and I rarely filled it up. Often I only took it to the curb every other week. A family down the street had two of the largest trash cans available and they were overflowing every week.

Same here.. I often don't even have trash per say. Many times I will just have a plastic shopping bag in the can and once a week or so I toss it in a trash can at the gas station or a store I'm at.

I could easily see water consumption getting up there with families and children (especially teenagers). I'm sure the 125/day has a factor applied that accounts for seasonal soil absorption/evaporation rates (winter) and all of the years demands on the system. Holidays, party, visiting guests, and so on. You have to design for peak/worst case usage.

[Mike Lassiter]

I just checked my water filter for useage and according to it our average daily useage is 42 gallons for 2 people. like others I don't waste water but we have front load high effeciency washer all low use toilets etc. and we will us a bath towel more than some I suppose before washing them again.
Boy wouldn't you hate to tote that from the creek or spring, or have to hand pump that every day! And that is nothing compared to some. My oldest daughter with 4 kids and keeping little sister's 2 uses 5000-6000 gallons every month.

[Mark Bolton]

I just checked my water filter for useage and according to it our average daily useage is 42 gallons for 2 people. like others I don't waste water but we have front load high effeciency washer all low use toilets etc. and we will us a bath towel more than some I suppose before washing them again.
Boy wouldn't you hate to tote that from the creek or spring, or have to hand pump that every day! And that is nothing compared to some. My oldest daughter with 4 kids and keeping little sister's 2 uses 5000-6000 gallons every month.

I'm sure if the average user were forced to confront their usage even marginally by having to tote even only a small percentage they would become much more thrifty in their consumption in short order.

It's been a very hot, and I think pertinent, subject in the past few years that the wars of tomorrow will likely not be fought over oil or politics and religion, but water.

[Art Mann]

I am shocked at the number of people who have their septic tanks pumped on a regular basis. Perhaps my geographic area lends itself well to the dispersal of effluent. Almost everyone I know uses a septic tank and I have never heard of anyone getting their septic tank pumped unless they are having a problem - and problems are rare. After I had been living in my current house for around 20 years, I thought we might have a problem so I hired a guy to come pump the tank. When he left, I asked him what was the level of solids accumulated in the tank. He said there was very little and that the pumping operation was really unnecessary.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Looked it up last night... the house was built in '87. Has there been anything more than mild changes/updates in septic system design over the years that would warrant paying closer attention to what's likely in the ground? For example, maybe it was common to use plastic tanks that often failed within 30 years, that sort of thing.

Once again, this all depends upon the region and codes where it was installed, but most-likely there has not been any major changes in the designs. That said, we have no idea what design that system has. Check with the county health department. They should have the well & septic data on file.



Be certain you have exclusive use. A shared well easement is nothing but a pita. We have one where two of four parties use the well heavily and two do not use it at all. Endless disputes regarding maintenance costs vs usage! Your title company should identify if there is such an easement or agreement recorded.

Title companies don't always have this data. Often times the Health Department has this info too. Shared wells can be great when all the owners are like-minded. I've heard lots of horror stories from owners of shared wells. We backed away from one house we wanted to buy last year because the shared well was on the property of a meth head who inherited the land. He was supposed to do twice-yearly tests due to certain issues with the water and Health Department records showed he hadn't done the tests in over 10 years as well as added a 3rd party to the 2-party well.

One other thing to think about is easements for septic. We have looked at a fair number of listings that not only did the property have their own septic system, but there were easements for the neighbor septic systems installed on the property too. (The neighbor properties did not perc well enough for their own septic.) If you have no plans to do anything with the land, it's not that big of a deal, but since we have livestock, we would not be able to have the livestock in the septic area in case they damage the neighbor's septic systems.

[Jim Matthews]

You're on the right track; having a few key utility pumps on a backup panel make real sense.

We have a 12 kW (peak output) generator that powers the well pump, furnace (and circulators), refrigerator, kitchen lights and a few outlets.
Query the local septic professionals about the lifetime of a septic field based on the number of bathrooms.

Ours was built with an oversize holding tank, and the field is under-stressed as a result.

If the local pros say a field lasts an average of X years, and the house has one that was built X+ years ago,
it is reasonable to deduct that cost from any serious offer.

Massachusetts has water quality regs concerning the acceptable limits of leachate from septic fields,
known as Title V pertaining to water quality. Most mortgage lenders won't offer terms on a property
that fails inspection.

Has your property of interest been inspected for compliance to local regs?

*******

Nothing to add concerning the wells - mine has never run dry, even with
two little kids in the house. We bypassed the filtration system, as it uses
salt for softening - we have occasional problems with scale forming on fixtures.

Other than that, no worries.

[Brian Elfert]

I am shocked at the number of people who have their septic tanks pumped on a regular basis. Perhaps my geographic area lends itself well to the dispersal of effluent. Almost everyone I know uses a septic tank and I have never heard of anyone getting their septic tank pumped unless they are having a problem - and problems are rare. After I had been living in my current house for around 20 years, I thought we might have a problem so I hired a guy to come pump the tank. When he left, I asked him what was the level of solids accumulated in the tank. He said there was very little and that the pumping operation was really unnecessary.

Septic pumping is required by law in Minnesota and Wisconsin. It is every three years in Minnesota and not sure how often in Wisconsin. It seems like the city where I am buying a house are the ones who enforce septic systems mostly. I don't believe they are closely tracking homeowners for compliance with the pumping rules.