Home-made knife hinges?

[Dave Cav]

Does anyone make their own knife hinges? If so, could you share some details?

Thanks

[Winton Applegate]

The Krenov book(s) talk about knife hinges. Really fine ones.
Use the drill bit cutting edge geometry for brass to keep the bits from grabbing and destroying your parts.
and or
use Unibits (http://www.amazon.com/Unibit®-Metric-Step-Drills-unibit-1m/dp/B004F7Q9U4/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1405577151&sr=1-1&keywords=metric+unibit) which are non spiraling and don't dig in.
You may then want to ream (http://www.amazon.com/Cutting-Machine-Reamer-Milling-Cutter/dp/B00BXWTCH6/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1405577245&sr=1-2&keywords=6+mm+reamer) the holes to size to get them more round and the exact sizes you want. Stainless steel (http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Ground-Precision-Tolerance-Diameter/dp/B00CNM13HM/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1405577380&sr=1-2&keywords=5.9+mm+stainless+rod) for the hinge axles. Be sure you under stand what an "interference fit" is. Which you will want for half of the axle to hinge assembly.

[David Barnett]

Aside from either buying brass-compatible drill bits or grinding bits for soft or gummy metals, you may wish to buy over-and-under chucking reamers* (buy for the size pin you choose—not sets) for the size hole your drill bit makes, which can vary slightly depending on the maker, even from USA manufacturers. Sometimes it's wise to buy different drill makes to find one that works best with your reamers. Also, I prefer screw-machine length (short) bits for such work. Besides over/under reamers, it helps if you have an arbor press. Cheap arbor presses can be had from Grizzly or HF and have lots of other uses.

For brass, 360 flat stock is the easiest to machine, but 260 also works.

That said, you can make knife hinges with just a drill, files, hammer and a jeweler's saw frame if that's what you have.

*It's best to avoid reamers and reamer sets from Pakistan, India, and so on unless from reliable dealers who state tolerances and will back them up.

[george wilson]

Agreed,David. I avoid reamers from Pakistan,Afganistan,burger stan and hot dog stan(just over the border). I edited out my further comments as they were politically incorrect!!!:)

I don't know what kind of stainless steel they use in Pakistan to make all those little medical looking pliers and things they sell. They are as soft as aluminum. Really,they are. I'll bet I could even file them with one of those soft as a road apple Mexican Nicholson files!!

Actually,I would like to have some of that stainless. It would be useful for certain parts as it is so easily filed.

I saw a video of some back street little shop in Pakistan,where they can make you a decent copy of just about any military rifle or pistol(mostly Russian,of course). That is no small accomplishment.

[george wilson]

For your further consumer information,are you familiar with those 18th. C. "Barrel Jack" pocket knives they make in Pakistan? They have camel bone scales on them. The bit I wish to impart is their blades are case hardened on 1 side only. The blades are laid on the bottom of a furnace,and charcoal is spread over them,then heated to case harden the blades a few thou. deep. The side of the knives that are laid face down do not get hardened. So,when you go to sharpen one of them,figure out which side is hard,and only bevel the SOFT side,or you'll wear through the case hardening,leaving a soft edge.

Now,I can't completely fault them for making cheap blades in this manner. It happens that in the 18th. C.,some cheap blades were made in the same manner: By case hardening one side only. Hopefully to a DEEPER depth,though. It is well known that many Japanese knives are steeled on 1 side only,but at least it is DECENT steel,and of reasonable thickness,like their chisels.

I prefer a blade that I can bevel equally on both sides for my pocket knife.

[Cody Kemble]

I avoid reamers from Pakistan,Afganistan,burger stan and hot dog stan(just over the border).

Ahh yes, the many flavors of ...stan. Wait, that didn't sound right.

I agree with David about the short (screw-machine length) bits for metal work. It may be all in my head, but I feel like they dont wander/deflect as much. If that makes any sense.

[David Barnett]

Just becaise a reamer or drill is labeled HSS doesn't make it so. It can be useful to know the country of origin.


Agreed,David. I avoid reamers from Pakistan,Afganistan,burger stan and hot dog stan(just over the border). I edited out my further comments as they were politically incorrect!!!:)

Heh—I try not to cross that line publicly, as well. Quality is all over the place, but some tools are well-enough made to bother searching them out. Machinist measuring, trying, and layout tools made to British specs can be real bargains, but buy from dealers who'll take them back if you're not satisfied.


I don't know what kind of stainless steel they use in Pakistan to make all those little medical looking pliers and things they sell. They are as soft as aluminum. Really,they are. I'll bet I could even file them with one of those soft as a road apple Mexican Nicholson files!!

While I've used knock-off jeweler's and goldsmith's hand tools from India and Pakistan that were very serviceable indeed, others were abysmal in hardness and consistency in fit and finish. I have a smallish rolling mill of Indian manufacture that has served me well at a fraction of Durston prices. No, the quality isn't in the same league but for light sheet and wire work it's a bargain. Most of these little mills are not of the same quality, however, but I knew who had them made and imported. Some of the Indian and Pakistani silversmithing tools are usable; hammers, stakes, swages, dapping tools, and so on are well-made. Some are too soft and occasionally have pits and inconsistencies that defeat their purpose, especially for planishing.


Actually,I would like to have some of that stainless. It would be useful for certain parts as it is so easily filed.

I keep a box of cheap 18/8 stainless forks, spoons and other kitchen gadgets for making small tools and parts where softness is an advantage. When I need fairly soft stock I stick with 304 or 316 stainless. I did see a set of jeweler's pliers that were so soft I wouldn't have been surprised if a thumbnail had dented them.


I saw a video of some back street little shop in Pakistan,where they can make you a decent copy of just about any military rifle or pistol(mostly Russian,of course). That is no small accomplishment.

That is amazing. Of course, I'd recommend Yugoslav and Bulgarian milled receivers where Kalashnikovs are concerned.

[george wilson]

We plunked down for a Durston. I either make our own hammers or sometimes find old ones at flea markets. The hammer handles available today are just abysmal. Thy are so bad,I don't think I'd even think about trying to rasp one into a decent degree of usefulness. I just make them from scratch. And,when friends drop by when I'm making a few handles,I get told "Hey!! why are you wasting your time? You can BUY those"!!!!

Yes,the video did not show enough of the shop to see what kind of machinery they had in the gun shop in Pakistan. I think I recall a Bridgeport mill in the back ground. Those type guns are fairly crude anyway,but the rifling,chambering,and some other things HAVE to be done correctly.

Personally,I care for old time quality,and I don't care(in fact I'd be HAPPY ) if I never saw another assault style rifle in a gun show. Unfortunately,they are mostly what you do see these days.

Here are a few you might have seen before. The handles are ball pane(Yes,that's correct,but now everyone says PEEN or PEIN. I can't even Google PANE now!! But that's the old name) type,but you can't get them this small any more. I have no decent pictures of chasing style handles,though the smaller 2 of the picture of three do have chasing style handles. The larger one has a shorter version of a chasing handle. I made it for driving engraving chisels(die sinker's chisels,really(that I make,too). The Porpoise scene I posted months ago was chiseled out with them,and the larger hammer,from 01 steel. The pics of chasing handles came out blurry from my small auto focusing camera(which meant it focused on anything it felt like). I have a new camera now,and ought to trash many of these pictures and make all new ones.

I wish I had an oval turning lathe,and if I had the energy,I'd make one. The handles are still round as seen. But now,they're oval. For scale,those handles are laying across my 8" jointer's table,which is about 9" wide,or so.(I guess).

Notice the nice old letter and number stamps. I searched many years for good old ones with style and serifs. Now,I have everything from 1/32" to 1/2". But,I gave the 1/2" set to a harness maker friend. He stamps leather tool boxes found on the backs of coaches in the museum with them. I never use a stamp that large!! If I did,I'd have to hit them with a sledge hammer(on steel). On leather,it's easier!:)

I need to be more careful. I never see dust until I take a magnified picture and get it into the computer!! I'm a terrible photographer.

[David Barnett]

Does anyone make their own knife hinges? If so, could you share some details?

I should've mentioned that knife hinges needn't be brass. My first pair was for a small cabinet in birdseye maple. I plum-blued* mild steel (hinges and screws both) which looked right to my eye against the light maple and fit the cabinet's intended use; a place to store muzzle-loading supplies. I usually prefer patinated hardware to bright finishes, though, and eschew gloss on wood, as well. Just my aesthetic.

You can also make attractive knife hinges from wood (after Ellis Walentine), which Andy Rae covers in The Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture & Cabinet Construction (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Illustrated-Furniture-Cabinet-Construction/dp/1561584029/ref=la_B001JP3RZK_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405626338&sr=1-1), as I recall—a good use for exotic scraps.

You may find knife hinges are easier to make than install, at first anyway.

*Lee Valley now carries Birchwood-Casey Plum Brown (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=71689&cat=1,250,43298), which I've long used on tools and hardware alike.

[David Barnett]

A one-sided case? Very interesting. Shows what I know about 18th Century technologies.

The only barrel knives I'm familiar with are the Eskilstuna so-called folding sloyd knives with wooden handles. I'd never heard of knives that were case-hardened on one side only and would think they'd wear quickly. I suppose in an open forge case-hardening in that manner makes sense. I've only used Kasenit, Cherry Red or Brownell's for small tools and little metal parts, and then admittedly more for appearance than hardness.

[David Barnett]

Durston is the right choice, period.

Why am I not surprised those hammers remind me of Lynton Mackenzie's? Simply gorgeous. Truly.

The handles shipped with hammers today are nearly always unsuitable, both in wood and shape. I've received handles with severe runout that are just waiting to snap and more often than not are clumsy and clunky and sometimes even off-center or twisted. The cheap imported chasing hammers have too-thick handles with no flexibility whatsoever.

Even my German-made chasing handles need thinning before they're to my taste. Also, the handles on many newer metalsmithing hammers seem to be more concerned with looks and wood species than utility, although the recent Fretz handles are nice enough, even though they persist in cast stainless steel heads and stakes of which I was initially dubious—yet they seem acceptable to those who buy them.

I most often shorten and re-shape the too-long handles on forging hammers, which is to be expected and poses no problem, but most often I've made new handles for chasing and silversmithing handles before even using them, but then I always reshape and polish the heads to suit my needs, as well.

I used to shape handles with rasps and files but these days admit to using the 1" belt sander/grinder, which is my go-to for toolmaking and all sorts of tasks (I just love 1" belt sanders—couldn't imagine not having one).

As for stamps, I prefer the old styles. The newer ones have no character, in my opinion. Besides, most won't hold up—too soft. I have a few hallmarking stamps that are good. Some of the newer ones are okay but not so durable as I'd like. For small stuff I use Microstamp. I once punch cut my own handle letters for bookbinding, mostly for the obsessive-compulsive fun of it, though, when I had lots of leisure time.

[george wilson]

Actually,steel,finished like David said,might be a superior choice of hinge material. Less likely to bend over time and use,or wear from rubbing.

David,you can still buy old military stamp sets on Ebay for about $119.00. I love mine. They have beautiful letters with serifs,and very nicely shaped numbers. I especially like the 5 and 7 in my sets.

You can buy these sets cheaper if they are missing some of the extra parts,like the bronze block for holding dog tags,spoon handles,etc. for stamping. They are of no real use anyway to us.

Lynton was a friend of mine. He visited me when in Williamsburg. I shared some of my tools with him. My friend Jon,(who later worked with me),then working at the gunsmith shop in Wmsbg.,took his master class in engraving.It was a great loss to the World when he passed away. I never saw his hammers. Did he make his,too ?

[David Barnett]

It may be all in my head, but I feel like they dont wander/deflect as much. If that makes any sense.

Not just in your head. I use screw machine drills for everything that doesn't absolutely demand a longer drill. You'll find short drills essential if you're drilling on a small lathe, such as a Taig or Sherline, as the drill is held stationary in a tailstock chuck while the workpiece is rotated.

For those unfamiliar with these drills, they can be bought from machinist suppliers such as MSC, Grainger, Enco, Travis and so on. They really make a difference. Nice fit for eggbeaters, too.

[David Barnett]

David,you can still buy old military stamp sets on Ebay for about $119.00. I love mine. They have beautiful letters with serifs,and very nicely shaped numbers. I especially like the 5 and 7 in my sets.

Lynton was a friend of mine. He visited me when in Williamsburg. I shared some of my tools with him. My friend Jon,(who later worked with me),then working at the gunsmith shop in Wmsbg.,took his master class in engraving.It was a great loss to the World when he passed away. I never saw his hammers. Did he make his,too ?

Thanks so much for the lead on military number sets. I'd seen some on a workbench at Smith & Wesson but had no idea they were still available. Sans serif just doesn't look right on vintage tools and items. Although nowhere near my former finesse with my left hand, at least I can easily hold chasing, repoussé and hallmarking punches. At any rate, my ability to hold and manipulate small tools and workpieces is coming back faster than I'd ever have thought possible.

Lynton is my engraving hero. His straightforward, restrained yet bold scrollwork is the model to which I aspired and his DVDs on hammer and chisel engraving (http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Engraving-with-Lynton-McKenzie-DVD/560147?Pos=4) are a must have for beginners. His unhurried, calm, matter-of-fact speaking and teaching style was downright hypnotic. Yes, he made his own hammers. Your hammer with the two flat polls is what he usually used, and surely inspired GRS's design (http://www.grstools.com/chasing_hammers/grs-chasing-hammer.html).

[David Barnett]

And here's a walk-through (http://robertwhelan.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/shop-made-hardware/) showing how Robert Whelan made his straight copper knife hinges. I prefer offset but you might rather start with straight.

Also, American Woodworker had an article in the Jan-Feb 1990 issue that can be pulled up on Google Books that shows knife hinge construction in the home shop and explains how to regrind a drill bit for soft metals.

[george wilson]

I was not aware of the GRS hammers. I guess they are making their hammers for the same reason I made mine designed like that: Just a simple lathe turning. At least their handles approach a suitable design better than most of the stuff I have seen. At least,they could be reshaped ahead of the bulb some.

How long has GRS been making those? I made mine in the 70's. The "graceful" hammers were made in 2003.

[David Barnett]

I was not aware of the GRS hammers. I guess they are making their hammers for the same reason I made mine designed like that: Just a simple lathe turning. At least their handles approach a suitable design better than most of the stuff I have seen. At least,they could be reshaped ahead of the bulb some.

How long has GRS been making those? I made mine in the 70's. The "graceful" hammers were made in 2003.

I remember when GRS first offered their hammers but not which year, although I know it was before 2006. At any rate, not so long before that. Your hammers may be simple lathe turnings but they're nonetheless exquisite.

Here's one of Lynton's hammers (http://www.masterengraver.com/images/personal_photos/mckenzietools.jpg) he gave to Sam Alfano when they were both at New Orleans Arms Co. in the 1980s. The handle in this example is plain as can be. I don't remember where I saw his hammer with both large and small flat polls. Probably in an older B&W engraving book. I have seen other photos where he appears to use a standard but largish jeweler's chasing hammer.

I've long used a beeswax and mutton fat mixture in a similar tin.

[David Barnett]

The handles are ball pane(Yes,that's correct,but now everyone says PEEN or PEIN. I can't even Google PANE now!! But that's the old name) type,but you can't get them this small any more.

My OED gives pein as a variant of pane and peen as a variant of pein. What a pain!

[Mel Fulks]

David, that's good, but you did not quite write a paean!

[David Barnett]

David, that's good, but you did not quite write a paean!

Paean! [head slap] You have bested me, Mel. If only I'd written a paean extolling ball-peen, ball-pein or ball-pane over ball-pain. Truly a lost poetic opportunity, yes.

[Mark Kornell]

I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to write a paean extolling pretty much anything over ball-pain.

[george wilson]

Thank you for the picture of Lynton's hammer. I wonder what purpose the pointed top had? You probably know if anyone does. I have to say that I think the shape of the pointed top does not go with the rest of the design. I'm sure Lynton had some reason for doing it. But,it must be recalled that in 1963 he was a much younger person. I don't know his age when he died. It might have been a bit hard to tell,whenever I saw him,with the effect on his face of the prednisolone he had to take.

Engraving is something I have long been interested in.But haven't stuck to the practice of it like you have to. For some reason I am better at relief chiseling. I don't know why. The mold for the porpoise is an example of that.

So,from your research it looks like pane is the original word from which pein and peen have grown. I always just say pein (or am I saying PEEN?) in normal conversation myself,but suppose I was getting nit picky in the post above. I try to impart correct information,even if it gets a bit esoteric.

Some of you guys are very edjufimicated.:)

But,must we praise with the paean,sing of the pane,extoll the peen,or cover the pein in glory?(This attempt at levity may not be great!! I feel like you know what this A.M..)

[Dave Cav]

And here's a walk-through (http://robertwhelan.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/shop-made-hardware/) showing how Robert Whelan made his straight copper knife hinges. I prefer offset but you might rather start with straight.

Also, American Woodworker had an article in the Jan-Feb 1990 issue that can be pulled up on Google Books that shows knife hinge construction in the home shop and explains how to regrind a drill bit for soft metals.



You can also make attractive knife hinges from wood (after Ellis Walentine), which Andy Rae covers in The Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture & Cabinet Construction (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Illustrated-Furniture-Cabinet-Construction/dp/1561584029/ref=la_B001JP3RZK_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405626338&sr=1-1), as I recall—a good use for exotic scraps.


Thanks for the information; that is what I was looking for.

[Rob Lee]

Thank you for the picture of Lynton's hammer. I wonder what purpose the pointed top had? You probably know if anyone does. I have to say that I think the shape of the pointed top does not go with the rest of the design. I'm sure Lynton had some reason for doing it.....(snip)

Hi George!

I have an old Barrister's hammer with a pointed end....used for breaking wax seals ....

I could see an engraver using a pointed head the same way....to free the work from a hard wax.

Truely fabulous work shown on this thread.....!

Cheers,

Rob

[Winton Applegate]

if you have an arbor press

For small stuff I use the drill press. To add some rigidity and protect the table you can put a 4x4 between the table underside and the base. Shim with plywood or particle board cut offs. I have a pretty hefty floor standing, home shop Delta that has quite a large diameter column (that is one reason I picked it over other brands). Makes me wonder why I went so long with bench top drill presses.
Mannnnn I lucked out and got it, a nice Delta, for under $ 400 with shipping. Those “good O’l days are GONE from the looks of things.

Hey my first “Tool Gloat”.


Pakistan, India
Are you kidding ? Those are my go to sources for precision machine tooling !
NOT
anyway they need to discover the invention called the toilet.
And stop raping women who are attempting to use the public transportation system before I would even think of, considering, looking at anything imported from there.
Oh and there is the little thing where women get killed by THEIR OWN FAMILY for doing what their brothers are allowed to do all the time.
Helloooooo

Sorry, it T-s me off. This IS the 21st century !

G. W.,

edited out because politically incorrect

I don’t know if mine are politically correct but I do know right and wrong.

[David Barnett]

For small stuff I use the drill press. To add some rigidity and protect the table you can put a 4x4 between the table underside and the base. Shim with plywood or particle board cut offs. I have a pretty hefty floor standing, home shop Delta that has quite a large diameter column (that is one reason I picked it over other brands). Makes me wonder why I went so long with bench top drill presses.
Mannnnn I lucked out and got it, a nice Delta, for under $ 400 with shipping. Those “good O’l days are GONE from the looks of things.

I, too, have an older (20 years) Delta with a beefy column that can handle light pressing and used it a few times before I bought an arbor press. The arbor press gets lots of use, though, for everything from blanking pen nibs, staking, setting frets, tool and knifemaking, making hardware to beaucoup jewelry tasks. It's just a 1-ton but has done all I've asked and is easy to add attachments to both ram and table plate. Not everyone needs a press but I'd hate to live without one.

I think I paid less than forty dollars way back but you can currently get a passable 1-ton on sale at Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html) for $49.95. Grizzly's 1-ton is ten bucks more plus shipping.


Those “good O’l days are GONE from the looks of things.

Long gone, indeed, but there are still a few deals if you're lucky enough to stumble across one. Got my Delta for $275 because it was misdelivered to a going-out-of-business tool store. I'll never need another, which is good, because that'll never happen again.

[george wilson]

I would like to DISCOURAGE ANYONE from trying to use a drill press as an arbor press. The rack gears on most drill presses,at least the older,but GOOD ones,are milled right out of the cast iron quill. I wouldn't even use a drill press for cutting mortises larger than 1/4" myself. Those cast iron gear teeth break off so easily,and there is no way to easily fix them.

We had a large,heavy duty old Delta drill press,a 20" one,that had been used for mortising a lot. Its rack teeth were nearly all broken off right down to their roots. I got rid of it. Only re building up the teeth with brazing,and re milling them could have repaired the spindle. And that would likely have bulged the spindle or warped it so it would no longer fit properly. The only real cure would have been to find a new spindle,not easy to do on a 1950's(or 40's) drill press.

[David Barnett]

I would like to DISCOURAGE ANYONE from trying to use a drill press as an arbor press. The rack gears on most drill presses,at least the older,but GOOD ones,are milled right out of the cast iron quill. I wouldn't even use a drill press for cutting mortises larger than 1/4" myself. Those cast iron gear teeth break off so easily,and there is no way to easily fix them.

Good advice. Drill presses are for drilling. In my ignorance, I did it a few times before being told by a machinist to buy a press, which I did. I was lucky. Had a friend who tried to use a cross-slide vise on his drill press for some light milling. Bad outcome, that.

[george wilson]

Yes,David. The bearings in drill presses are not designed for sideways thrust. Just vertical thrust. I still have my original,purchased new,and until recently ONLY 1963 Craftsman drill press. I had to replace the motor last year. Piece of junk!!! I want my money back!!!:)

Actually,it might just be the bearings that gave out. I had a similar motor and replaced it.

I just bought,for what some say,a too high price,(I don't think so),a 1950's heavy duty Walker Turner 20" metal working drill press. It is not yet re assembled. Too heavy for 1 man with 2 broken fingers!! The table weighs 100#.(Hash mark that,you politicians!!) But,it is so cool! And,the owner rebuilt it with new spindle bearings,and restored it to looking new. The coolest part,is there is a small belt going through an opening in the head casting. It goes 90º to the main belt,from a gearbox to another gearbox with 3 handles. There are step pulleys on the cross feed,in about 1/2 the size of normal step pulleys. This is the power feed. You can flick the 3 handles in or out to engage the feed. He also put on a VFD,as the drill is 3 phase. I should be able to run it slow enough to drill 1 1/2" holes in steel plate. That will be essential,if I EVER get going making my 100 ton coining press. The steel parts will be very hard to lift in this monster! Most MODERN drill presses run WAY TOO FAST to drill the size of holes they are advertised to be capable of. The drills would burn out. You can't drill a 1 1/2" hole with 300 RPM,(the usual slowest speed of NEW drill presses). Not unless your bit is made of unobtainium. But then,how could you ever sharpen it? No,It cost no more than a large new Grizzly,and infinitely better quality and design.(If Grizzly wanted to copy this machine,I'd let them).