Learning to use a bowl gouges

[Jim Hipp]

I have a conventional style bowl gouge, no real sweep to the wings. I have done some turning with it but can't say I have mastered it although I am having some success. At some point I intent to purchase a bowl gouge with the sweeping wings. Should I purchase the more modern style and learn to use it or wait until I have more or less mastered the conventional style.

Thanks for comments.

Jim

[John Keeton]

Jim, swept wings are a result of the grind, not the gouge. However, wings are not for everyone and work better on some flute profiles than others.

[Dennis Ford]

The swept back wings are good for shear scraping and for rapidly hogging off wood when roughing. I like a conventional style gouge with about 65 deg grind for turning the bottom of bowls. It is really the turners choice on which style to use. If you want swept back wings, you can grind your gouge that way.

[Jamie Donaldson]

When you master the swept back wing style gouges you will not have any need for the old "bullnosed" profile!

[Joseph M Lary]

The swept back is the one I started with in 1/2". I use it all the time . I bought a gouge from wood craft and the only grind that would work was a conventional @ 55 deg v shape . The flute of the tool is the key . A u shape seemed to work the best for me.

[Reed Gray]

Well, I am different. I used to use a swept back grind on my gouges, but don't use them any more. I use scrapers for my roughing, a 45/45 gouge for my finish cuts on the outsides and inside wall, and a couple of different BOB (bottom of bowl) gouges for going through the transition areas. I do use swept back scrapers a lot for my shear scraping cuts rather than the swept back gouges. They do have more cutting surface, and you don't have to roll them as far over as you do most swept back gouges for the same cuts. I think the more parabolic flutes, and mild V flutes (like the one from Doug Thompson) work best as swept back grinds. The steep V and more U or C shapes don't work as well. Lots of variations. I have a number of clips up on You Tube, just type in robo hippy.

robo hippy

[Dale Bonertz]

When you master the swept back wing style gouges you will not have any need for the old "bullnosed" profile!



That is an interesting comment Jamie. I guess I agree for what I think your intention was but the old bullnose still has its place in an arsenal. Like deep bowls going through
to the bottom. Granted that also has a shorter bevel angle but the shearing action helps also through these trouble areas. Or difficult woods like highly figured grain or pithy areas sometimes need that old bullnose shear angle to get a nicer finish cut.

[Jim Hipp]

Jim, swept wings are a result of the grind, not the gouge. However, wings are not for everyone and work better on some flute profiles than others.

Which flute profiles work best?

[Jim Hipp]

robo hippy, with the "hippy" in your name I had to notice your videos and have enjoyed several of them.

[John Keeton]

Which flute profiles work best?Jim, I agree fully with Reed's comment - "I think the more parabolic flutes, and mild V flutes (like the one from Doug Thompson) work best as swept back grinds. The steep V and more U or C shapes don't work as well." The D-Way gouges are close to a parabolic flute, and the OneWay Mastercut, in my opinion, is very close to a parabolic flute.

[Thom Sturgill]

Which flute profiles work best? Now that opens a can of worms! :eek::D

Check out the recent thread on what makes the 'best' gouge. Everybody had a different idea - except we seem to agree that it is whatever works for you!

I think that the flute shape IS important, but only in combination with the grind. Ellsworth and others developed an elliptical flute and used a straight wing. Doug Thompson produces a straight V flute and and recommends a convexly curved wing as does Lyle Jameison. The final geometry of the edges is almost identical. If you do mostly push cuts, a U shaped flute opens up the nose for a larger 'sweet spot' it is claimed, but I have never liked my U gouges much, others use the U shape and don't like the V shape. While I like and use a tight V gouge, I will admit that it clogs faster.

[Dale Miner]

See if there is a woodturning club in your area. If so, join and cozy up with some of the members that have experience with turning bowls. Some hands on time with an experienced mentor will save many hours of frustration.

[John Thorson]

To get a visual on how the flute shape affects the nose profile compare the U and V bowl gouges on the Thompson lathe tools site. The swept back wing does give you 'wings' to scrape with but to me the big difference is when you rub the bevel on a push cut and that is when the nose profile makes a big difference. A traditional or 'straight' bevel with little or no sweep has more options in terms of what part of tool, bottom of the flute in this case since there is no nose, you can use in the cut but not the same degree of control that you get with the swept-back grind.

U shaped flute will have a nose profile that matches the next sized larger flute in the V shaped flute photo below.
Example: a 3/8" U shaped gouge will have a nose profile that closely matches the 1/2" V shaped gouge's flute.
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/images/tools/Type-UGouges.jpg

V shaped flute
http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/images/tools/Type-VGouges.jpg

[Wally Dickerman]

Jim, do yourself a very large favor......take one or more turning lessons. A good instructor can answer all of your questions. plus you'll learn the proper use of your tools...there is no subsitute for hands-on learning..

If you have a local Woodcraft store they have regular classes.

[Jim Hipp]

Thanks to all for the comments and the visuals supplied by John Thorson which were especially helpful. I will attempt to find a "local" turner to visit with. There is a club down in Birmingham but they are 100+ miles for a round trip. Might be my best option. In any event the gouge that came with the Shopsmith isn't going to make the grade for very long and using a Shopsmith for bowl turning has some serious limitations when attempting to support a chucked piece with the tail stock. Just not enough room to work safely. Yes, I know that it isn't absolutely necessary to support a chucked piece but for where I am in the hobby I am uncomfortable with the idea of not supporting the work at least untill it is absolutely necessary to reove the support. Time to look seriously at purchasing a lathe.

Thanks again to all.