What do you think of on-line woodworking 'schools'?

[Tony Wilkins]

The recent thread I started got me thinking about how I'm learning about hand-tool woodworking. I have lot's of books and several DVD's now on how to do woodworking. I'd love to go to meetings and would really love to go to the schools they offer all around the country. However, being in a motorized wheelchair much of the time makes it difficult. This is compounded by the fact each day I don't know how much strength I have in any limb. I was wondering if a more organized approach might be better. That and I'm a visual leaner leads me to internet video teaching.


So here's the question - for me personally and just in general:

What do you think of the value/efficacy of on line wood working schools like Shannon Roger's and Paul Seller's?

[Frederick Skelly]

Tony,
I dont know if this counts, but I bought a monthly subscription to Rob Cosmans site about 9 months ago. I use it occasionally, but not as much as I expected. I found that I dont enjoy watching woodworking video as much as I thought I would. Plus, the format of RC's online subscription doesnt really work well for me - I find it tedious to hunt down which part of a build/episode teaches the thing I need to learn that day. But in fairness, once I get to the topic I need, I find Cosman to be a good teacher and I have learned from watching him.

Good luck.
Fred

[Bryan Robinson]

Shannon's Hand Tool School is great. You have to do the exercises to get the most out of it. I highly recommend it. I have learned a lot and he has lots of information and is readily available for questions. Check out his website and watch the videos on things like sawing etc.

[Jim Koepke]

What do you think of the value/efficacy of on line wood working schools like Shannon Roger's and Paul Seller's?

Having not experienced either of them, anything said would be nothing more than conjecture.

Almost all of my knowledge on woodworking and the associated skills such as sharpening have come from reading books and online forums and videos. There have been a few key instances where someone has imparted knowledge for me to glean. The most of my actual learning has come from getting my back end into the shop and doing some work. Taking notes also helps.


This is compounded by the fact each day I don't know how much strength I have in any limb. I was wondering if a more organized approach might be better. That and I'm a visual leaner leads me to internet video teaching.

Do the online subscription videos let you do the exercises at your own pace? Does the subscription include life time rights to revue the courses you have already finished if you want/need a refresher?

Recently a project specific DVD caught my attention and a few of my dollars. This might be another approach for your consideration.

So much information being available for free has me reluctant to pay for it.

Some of the claims about 'secrets of the dovetail joint revealed' make me a little suspicious. Was it Frank Klausz who said, "the secret to making dovetail joints is being able to saw to the line."

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

Tony, since I suppose most of this is being kicked off with dovetails, start by using YouTube to your advantage. Paul sellers and many others have a ton of walk-throughs on dovetails online.

Some advice that hit me well a while back was; make an accurate job of it and let the speed fallow. It remains true for how I like to progress through new procedures.

Dovetails really started to progress quickly for me when I started a small sample batch of practice pieces in which I sawed to the line, did zero paring, and fit the joint with a slight amount of compression. In this I figured out about how much tension I could start with and how that would work out in the final result. A bit of compression covers many sins, but the risk is splitting the boards, so there is a fine line to work around.

[Jim Matthews]

In my opinion, you do much better with a mentor looking over your shoulder.

That said, I spent real money to attend Paul Sellers' school in New York state
and would consider his online masterclasses reasonably priced.

I believe that a DVD player in the shop might have higher utility, if you can find
a series of projects you want to emulate.

If you're sitting down when cutting dovetails, you're at a distinct positional disadvantage.

I'm still struggling with getting multiples cut straight when I've got my nose right over the board.

I have to wonder if a jeweler's bench, or an adjustable height assembly (like the Noden bench)
would allow you to get the best possible alignment of your wrist, shoulders and eyes.

I haven't seen pictures of your shop, but I can't see getting square up to a bench, close enough,
if you're in a seated position. I doubt I could cut straight, if my stance was already sideways.

Consider an equipment change, to help with the mechanics.

David Barron and Lee Valley offer a set of guides that can be best used with Japanese "pull" saws.

I don't know what species of wood you have chosen, but some are wicked awful to mark/saw/chisel in confined spaces.
I tend to make all my drawer sides from Poplar as it's easy to see what I'm doing and it's not expensive firewood when I fail.

Search Noden Bench, Joshua Fink workbench and David Barron for illustrations of the tools mentioned.

One last word; record what you're doing including your struggles. I have found the "How to fix it when things go wrong..."
type of article to be far more instructive than the ones presuming I get everything right, execute all steps precisely and keep the manual.

You might be helpful to the next aspiring woodworker in your position.

(And show us pictures of your progress.)

[Daniel Rode]

I don't have any friends or family who are woodworkers. I've never taken a class nor even worked with another woodworker. I initially learned (power) woodworking from TV, books and magazines. Being self taught, I'm faced with an incompetent instructor teaching an un-gifted pupil :)

After taking a break from woodworking for a few years, I've been focused on incorporating hand tools over the last several months. I don't know much, so take my advice for what it's worth.

I get excellent advice here. I've learned a ton about hand tools. Finding, restoring, sharpening and setup. Even what tool for which purpose. I've also been given great tips on technique here. However, there's a big difference between learning about a tools and learning to use a tool. For me, videos helped a lot with the latter.

I like Paul Sellers and Rob Cosman. Paul is more concise and his techniques and projects are well thought out. I personally like his style and philosophical ramblings :) Rob's hand tool class is a lot like being in the shop with someone. You'll see truing a board done, in real time, again and again. You'll also see Rob design on the fly, make and fix mistakes and so forth. I switch between these Paul and Rob's classes ever couple months.

I also like the videos at Fine Woodworking, especially those by Garrett Hack.

I never watched anything by Shannon Rodgers. I looked once and it seemed really expensive but perhaps I'm just cheap :)

[Doug Ladendorf]

I have not paid for any online classes but have considered Popular Woodworking's Shop Class:

http://shopclass.popularwoodworking.com

Not a curriculum but does provide a good bit of variety.

[lowell holmes]

I have attended Paul Sellers classes and I agree with Dan's assessment of Paul.

[Prashun Patel]

Everyone has to find their own path. Depending on your goal, there's no right path. My advice (no better than any other's) is to learn project-by-project.

Start with things you know how to build, but add one 'stretch' aspect for each project.

I think you can get quite far from YouTube and this forum. Personally, I'd save my money for a particular advanced technique. It is here that I think the individualized tutelage of an expert might trump the 'Net.

A couple of low cost investments I think are very valuable:

1) Online subscritpion to Fine Woodworking. I think their articles are nicely searchable and varied. Also, they stick to nice furniture, and don't get too 'crafty'.

2) Local wood working club. I have yet to join mine, but that's just because of time constraints (the addict says as he types his one millionth post into SMC...).

[Simon MacGowen]

Before you enroll into any online classes, check out their free clips to see if you like their style, presentation, etc. Some make long-winded speeches and one-hour session has, may be, 1/3 real stuff. If you like listening to someone talking on and on, then you may not feel disappointed. I have watched some of their clips and couldn't really stand them...4 minutes into the clip, I still hear empty talk.

Between Rob Cosman and Paul Sellers, I would pick PS. Now, I must still say online classes or Dvds couldn't take the place of an instructor, not even close. Those online classes should come AFTER you have had a chance to receive some hands-on guidance from a woodworker.

Simon

PS Frank Klausz doesn't offer online classes, but he is concise and to the point, based on one of his Dvds I have watched. I like his clean and free-of-fillers approach. Not everyone who does online classes or videos (YouTube is full of them!) uses the limited time wisely and they bore their audience with all kinds of fillers and side talks. Paul Sellers can't match Frank on the delivery but is the closest among all out there.

[Derrell W Sloan]

I have been a subscriber to Paul Seller's Woodworking Masterclasses for about a year or so. I think his online courses are FANTASTIC! I have learned so much from Paul and I would highly recommend his courses.