How many new woodworkers are scared away by the crap

[Tony Wilkins]

I got into woodworking because I thought it would be relaxing but every time I ask a question or look for encouragement it comes down to contention. My woodworking tools will be on ebay soon.

[Sean Hughto]

Could you be more specific? Are you talking about threads here?

To answer your question about new woodworkers being scared away: I would think almost none. If a new woodworker is drawn to create in wood, that jones to create should hardly be so weak that it's extinguished by dipsticks on the internet saying stupid things. If one doesn't like the forums, but does like woodworking, avoiding the forums seems like the obvious answer as opposed to abandoning a hobby one is supposedly drawn to.

[Cory Waldrop]

Tony,

My experience with looking for information online has been that there are a ton of different opinions and I have had to filter through the information to find sources I trust and respect and I kind of keep to that moving forward. If you do something similar you should be able to ignore information that is not useful to you and ignore the things that frustrate you. At least it has worked for me. I also try not to spend too much time researching and get to building. After all woodworking is an active hobby and if it is not fun for someone, they are either doing it wrong or it is not for them. Maybe sit back and think about what you want to accomplish with this hobby and think about how you can do that and maybe weed out the things that are preventing you from that goal.

Good luck.

[Zach Dillinger]

Tony, the worst thing a beginner can do is try to learn how to make furniture by "learning" solely from forums and blogs. Almost every one is nothing more than a place for the hive mind to assimilate new people to the currently-popular way of doing something, which will change like Michigan weather (i.e. every 15 minutes). Then other guys come in with a different point of view which triggers the contention.

If you have an interest in woodworking, find someone who can teach you in person. Read old books. Read new books (which are often just reinterpretations of the information in old books). Study the old pieces. Think for yourself. Try things for yourself. Screw things up. You will cut yourself. You will bleed a little. Its the only way to learn. If you allow yourself to get trapped in the forum hive mind you will find it very difficult to grow as a craftsman. Don't think tooling can replace skill and experience. It can't.

And, please don't think that forums resemble anything close to reality. Many things are said online that would never be said in person, and for two reasons. One, often tone and subtext are lost which makes it difficult to discern when someone is kidding / having a little fun. Two, people say things online that border on disrespectful, things that they would never say to a real live person without risking a punch in the nose. So, its a perfect storm of garbage that makes a forum a very difficult place to do anything constructive. It can be done, but you need a solid base on which to build.

Another excellent resource for information is the Old Tools email list.

[David Weaver]

You ultimately have to decide if you want to work wood. If you do, it won't matter if you do or don't read the forums. The best way for you to really own your knowledge or progress in woodworking is to go light on the guidance from people and heavy on the time spent at the bench with some reflection on what's happening, etc.

I personally think a lot of people get cranky on internet forums because they're on them somewhere sometime that they are not able to woodwork, and they'd rather be working wood. When you are on the forums for a while, it doesn't really do anything. When you get a few hours of sweat time in the shop, all of the sudden, the woodworking urge is satisfied and the desire to get on the forum and contend a point is sort of like "who cares what anyone else thinks about this?".

If the woodworking isn't satisfying to overcome perceived slights on the forum, though, then that's a different thing. It's a hobby, and if it doesn't make you happy, why bother?

I've noticed the same thing that zach describes, but mostly because I am one of the few who is as direct in person as I am on here, and sometimes it gets people offended in person. I am always surprised by making a point about something in person and seeing everyone else shying away from doing anything other than shielding whatever they're talking about with a perceived need for some specific set of manners. It's just a way of holding everything and everyone at arms length, and it isn't very stimulating or credible.

[lowell holmes]

I would suggest quit reading the forums and retire to the shop for some pleasant time.
If you need skill building (I sure do), attend a class somewhere.
I've never seen frowns at a woodworking class.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I read through your recent posts and I thought you got some great feedback and encouragement, such as on your dovetail post. If it helps, I teach woodworking (on weekends, not for a full living... Yet) and I still screw up dovetails now and then. In fact, I am about to undertake a tool cabinet build and cringe at all those dovetails, but once I get started on them I remember how much I love the feel of a chisel trimming slivers of wood and soon the project become relaxing.

I should note that not one person has come forward yet to buy your tools, so it seems you have some supporters here. Honestly, we are all toolmongers, and usually a threat to sell all your tools would have gotten a reply of "Hey, what tools ya got and how much ya want?" :-) the fact that nobody tried to buy them means we are behind you, so don't quit yet. Every mistake makes you better.

[george wilson]

You guys do not know crap until you visit a machinist forum!!!!

[Dave Anderson NH]

I would echo much of what the others have said. Before the internet I learned quite a bit from my Dad. After that I read and experimented and as Zach said, cut myself, made expensive firewood, and gradually improved. The largest breakthrough came 20+ years ago when I joined our NH Guild and partook of classes, group projects, being mentored in hand tool use, watching demonstrations live with superior craftsmen. While forums and blogs are OK, they are by nature opinionated and feedback to questions can veer off into side issues or not be timely enough to help if you need immediate input. Think of the absurdity of one hand on the chisel and the other typing on your keyboard. Videos and Youtube are a lot better, but still the problem arises of not being able to ask questions. To my mind nothing beats learning from a live class or demo and if it's one to one, the instruction can't get any better. If possible take a class or two, join a club, and more than anything else actually make things. The end result isn't important at first, the goal is to improve each time you repeat an operation. What is an acceptable result to you now will make you cringe in a few years and you will want to hide or burn it.

Finally, make the mental decision to have a positive experience. Athletes call it "psyching yourself up". As a moderator I can't say much except to say that sometimes the things that go on in forums bear no resemblance to the real world.

[David Weaver]

As a moderator I can't say much except to say that sometimes the things that go on in forums bear no resemblance to the real world.

I'd agree with that, and not necessarily for whether or not people are nice to each other, but the subject matter also tends to be very esoteric sometimes and on the other end, driven by people who don't have enough experience to give advice to someone who just wants to "make things".

Time at the bench is irreplaceable. The forums you can do with or without, but they're always going to be full of 30 different opinions, including some that:
* include only minimalist tools
* include only expensive tools
* tell you that any method will work
* tell you that only one method will work

etc. learning from doing is far ahead for actual woodworking, and coming back to the forums when you get in a rut on something and learning by doing isn't cutting it is not a bad idea (the advice costs $0).

If certain people get you cranked but you otherwise like the forum, use the ignore button in the forum.

[Mel Fulks]

There is some debate on forums about minutiae, because some enjoy it. But when someone needs direct info or clarification they usually get it. The opposite of the forum instruction is working as an apprentice, no angst there. It's "do it
like this", "don't worry about that part now","I don't care how your granpa did his" and ,of course " do it like this or get out".

[Zach Dillinger]

use the ignore button in the forum.

Is there an ignore button on SMC?

[Prashun Patel]

Hang on a second, Tony. I was following your Dovetail thread and I can't read a single negative, contentious post. You received lots of advice and encouragement. (I guess this post is contentious ;))

I occasionally get turned off too, but I learned (am learning) almost entirely from this website (and practice). Just like outside, there are WAY MORE people who want you to succeed than wish to put you down for their own reasons. Stick with it, and stick with us. As long as your posts continue to be in the spirit of the forum here, I think you'll find a lot of fans and friends and mentors here.

[Daniel Rode]

I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way.

I've had the exact opposite experience. I'm not new to woodworking in general but I'm still pretty new to using hand tools. People in this forum have been incredibly encouraging and helpful. I wish I could contribute more to help someone else.

There may be people who have negative things to say but they exist everywhere. I mostly just ignore them. Wading through conflicting and suspect information can be an issue but it's hardly unique to woodworking or this forum. Find people you trust and give their opinions more weight or try things out to see what works for you.

I don't know that I find woodworking relaxing. I do find it satisfying. Because of the quite and pace, I find hand tool work peaceful and even more fulfilling. I went out to the shop a couple of nights ago to true and square a small pine board just for satisfaction of doing it. I haven't been able to get out there for a couple weeks and I missed it.


I got into woodworking because I thought it would be relaxing but every time I ask a question or look for encouragement it comes down to contention. My woodworking tools will be on ebay soon.

[Jim Koepke]

...

The forums you can do with or without, but they're always going to be full of 30 different opinions, including some that:
* include only minimalist tools
* include only expensive tools
* tell you that any method will work
* tell you that only one method will work


David,

You left out those that will tell you precisely "the one and only way" to do something they have never done themselves.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

Click on the user's name and in the profile page choose "Add to Ignore List"

Is there an ignore button on SMC?

[Zach Dillinger]

David,

You left out those that will tell you precisely "the one and only way" to do something they have never done themselves.

jtk

But I read about it on that one super popular blog! How can it not be "The Truth"? ;)

[Jim Koepke]

Click on the user's name and in the profile page choose "Add to Ignore List"

There have been a few "trolls" who like to be jerks all the time. For people like that instead of "adding to the Ignore list" I think it is better to get a moderator or two to look at their offending posts. If they are as offensive as they seem they end up not needing to be ignored as they are suspended.

Though anyone who always tries to tell others there is only one way or one tool to use tend to end up on my "ignore memo" without having to check them off on a list.

There are too many ways to do almost any task to take the side of there being "only one way" to get the job done.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Hang on a second, Tony. I was following your Dovetail thread and I can't read a single negative, contentious post. You received lots of advice and encouragement. (I guess this post is contentious ;))

I occasionally get turned off too, but I learned (am learning) almost entirely from this website (and practice). Just like outside, there are WAY MORE people who want you to succeed than wish to put you down for their own reasons. Stick with it, and stick with us. As long as your posts continue to be in the spirit of the forum here, I think you'll find a lot of fans and friends and mentors here.

It wasn't on this forum this time. I had posted on another forum. I'm probably over reacting as usual with my PTSD but when I post a 'hey I'm about to try these the first time" and it turns into a debate and then finally a 'you don't build anything so you aren't worth our time' then I'm not digging being lectured and derided.

[Erik Christensen]

If you are hacked off by internet trolls or an innocent but ill-phrased post then you lack the patience for most things in life such as driving in rush hour, golf, woodworking, etc. Yah i have been irritated at some things said on line but compared to cutting a quad matched veneer panel exactly an inch off center it don't make the noise level. chill out and enjoy life bro - you only go around once - if making sawdust does not make you happy then find something that does

[David Weaver]

Yeah, go for the ignore button if someone makes comments like that. If you're about to try something for the first time, I have no clue how they'd expect to find that "you'd have built something" that you're asking about.

[Patrick McCarthy]

It wasn't on this forum this time. I had posted on another forum. I'm probably over reacting as usual with my PTSD but when I post a 'hey I'm about to try these the first time" and it turns into a debate and then finally a 'you don't build anything so you aren't worth our time' then I'm not digging being lectured and derided.

Ok Reverend, now you got me wondering: if the sinning didn't occur here, why are you posting your visceral reaction here?
Like Prashun, I reviewed a bunch of the posts in your threads here and wasn't seeing anything that caused me to recoil. To now see you post that the offenders don't live in this group, my reaction was "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?"

[Shawn Pixley]

Yah i have been irritated at some things said on line but compared to cutting a quad matched veneer panel exactly an inch off center it don't make the noise level.

Ouch! I wish I could say, "I've never done that." But then I'd be lying....

[Judson Green]

Keep at it Tony!

I know this hobby is tough, weather were reading about it, asking about it or doing it.

Sometime ya just gotta turn off the internet and get at the bench. Other times you've gotta get away from the bench.

I took a nearly 2 year hiatus from woodworking, but missed it to much to stay a way.

[Jim Matthews]

I have found nothing but encouragement, here.

If you're concerned that an online forum has aggravated your
PTSD, it may be time to spend a little time with your counselor.

It is worth bearing in mind that hacks like me have enough time to chime in
online because we're not in the shop.

As has been mentioned above, there's not better treatment for irritation than 20 minutes at the bench.
Even if I'm just sweeping up a pile of shavings, it's better than punching the clock.

I would say this much about online boors - the Big Dogs never run down us Newbs.

[Kim Malmberg]

My reply is comment no 25 in this thread. Tony has written twice and all the other comments are from other members. Maybe this alone is one reason why it can be tough to follow this forum. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the people here and the willingness to comment and hand out advice. I truly do. But there are times when threads with specific questions very quickly turn out to be something entirely different - and driven by participants who ignore the actual questions. That can annoy me a lot. When this happens I tend to switch off for a while. So all I am saying is that I understand how Tony feels and that maybe we could sometimes do better if we listened to each other rather than hand out advice at the speed of light. In this regard I'm every bit as guilty as anyone else. And telling someone he or she just has to deal with it isn't quite fair. We all react in different ways and should be respected for doing so. I think it's great that Tony had the guts to tell us how he felt rather than just ride off into the sunset.

[Tony Wilkins]

Ok Reverend, now you got me wondering: if the sinning didn't occur here, why are you posting your visceral reaction here?
Like Prashun, I reviewed a bunch of the posts in your threads here and wasn't seeing anything that caused me to recoil. To now see you post that the offenders don't live in this group, my reaction was "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?"

You got me. This forum has been a lot better about this lately. This is what happens when life gets in the way. Spent yesterday bed ridden and then went out to the shop mad this morning (for something totally silly BTW). Hit my chisel a little (way) to hard and moved my baseline back a good ways. Came back in to find that other forum still going on about what advice I should follow.

So I should apologize to you guys - I'm sorry :)

[Prashun Patel]

No apologies necessary, Tony. Just keep on posting. I am learning too, and it's very encouraging for me to see others frustrated and learning and progressing.
I am not bedridden, but do have back issues. Don't you wish you had discovered this craft 25 years ago?

[David Weaver]

So I should apologize to you guys - I'm sorry :)

I don't think so. I have been on other forums and watched some of the members drive off new members one after the other by trolling anyone who had the cash to buy spendy tools, and sometimes anyone for any reason they felt like it any day. I got kicked off of a forum for trying to run said people out because they were chasing off experts, authors, newbies by being rude to everyone.

I fully understand exactly what you're saying, and there's probably a few places that have long-time hobby woodworkers who log in only to make themselves feel important by comparing what they make and how fast to what you make and how fast.

Time at the bench fixes that, too. Sooner or later you find your way to a forum that doesn't tolerate it (this one ultimately doesn't when it gets to a super rude level), or the forums that tolerate it stop tolerating it.

[bill howes]

Tony
I was a surgeon for over 30 years. When I started in the workshop maybe 25 years ago I was invited over to an Irish psychiatrist's basement to see how he set up his shop and worked. His name was Paddy and his first career was teaching shop. His advice stood up to the test of time.
One project at a time. Half of the fun is in the reading, planning, acquiring the right piece of wood.
One board at a time. You aren't in production. You don't have to be right the first time after all its only a board. If you have to do it again you'll only get better if you do it again or learn how to hide your mistakes
Treat your tools with respect and if you leave your workshop tidy you'll get a lot less grief from the other half.
Then he brought out a bottle of wine and we solved the rest of the worlds problems.
So here is to Paddy- don't give up woodworking

[bob blakeborough]

My reply is comment no 25 in this thread. Tony has written twice and all the other comments are from other members. Maybe this alone is one reason why it can be tough to follow this forum. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the people here and the willingness to comment and hand out advice. I truly do. But there are times when threads with specific questions very quickly turn out to be something entirely different - and driven by participants who ignore the actual questions. That can annoy me a lot. When this happens I tend to switch off for a while. So all I am saying is that I understand how Tony feels and that maybe we could sometimes do better if we listened to each other rather than hand out advice at the speed of light. In this regard I'm every bit as guilty as anyone else. And telling someone he or she just has to deal with it isn't quite fair. We all react in different ways and should be respected for doing so. I think it's great that Tony had the guts to tell us how he felt rather than just ride off into the sunset.

I agree with you here completely. It isn't just here, but on forums in general. Most of us are fairly opinionated people, and it seems we often want to have our views on things heard, even if it is not completely relevant to the original question. You see this all the time when someone asks something like "I have decided I am going to buy a premium set of bench chisels and I have decided on either the LV version or the LN version (as an example). Can anyone talk to me about their experiences using either of these?" Well... 20 pages later it is guaranteed that this person has heard a dozens of people tell him why he is wasting his money, should just buy vintage, or only go with boutique hand made, buy 2 chisels and get good wood instead, etc etc etc, but there are only one or two posts that answer his very direct question. Many of us seem to only cue in on 1 or 2 key words and then proceed to use those words to derail what the OP was asking about to suit their own beliefs on how one should approach woodworking for the rest of their lives.

Like you I find that it can make me bananas and I sometimes just need to take a cool off break from the forums and remind myself that it is just a forum and going into the shop and making stuff is really what it is all about.

[BOB SMALLMAN]

I got into woodworking because I thought it would be relaxing but every time I ask a question or look for encouragement it comes down to contention. My woodworking tools will be on ebay soon.

Please post for sale items here.

[Mike Brady]

Woodworking is a hobby. Forums are a different hobby. When you are able to realize that distinction you can move forward with either or both, or perhaps in your case, none. Before you go, realize that many, or probably most, good woodworkers never appear here or at any forum. Likewise there are some here who probably do very little actual working of wood. As others have pointed out, you will only learn from the hands-on experience in your shop. After hours you may choose to read/view on the internet how others approached what you are currently learning. Whatever you do, don't let yourself judge others based on what doesn't happen to work for you.

[Bruce Haugen]

You guys do not know crap until you visit a machinist forum!!!!

What George said! I read some of the forums he visits, and the only one that is civil is his.

[Bruce Haugen]

It wasn't on this forum this time. I had posted on another forum. I'm probably over reacting as usual with my PTSD but when I post a 'hey I'm about to try these the first time" and it turns into a debate and then finally a 'you don't build anything so you aren't worth our time' then I'm not digging being lectured and derided.

Yabut, if it's the forum I'm thinking of, it turned from advice to a debate about competing schools of thought. I wouldn't take any of that personally, and I know PTSD. Trust me when I tell you that the guys giving their own advice, even though different from everyone else, well, they each have mountains of experience and that doesn't make them right, but they were giving you honest perspective, and that's valuable. There is no one way, but I've learned that when a couple individuals give their opinions, I change my thinking (and I'm not likely going to tell you who they are). The best advice you received here and on the other forum is to go forth and make dovetails. Find what works for you. We don't know your limitations, strengths or motivation. You have to make something work. And don't for Pete's sake let failure stop you. That just means that whatever you just did didn't work. Try something else. I can't begin to tell you how many things I've screwed up, but I can tell you I don't have to do them again.

[Derek Cohen]

Tony
I was a surgeon for over 30 years. When I started in the workshop maybe 25 years ago I was invited over to an Irish psychiatrist's basement to see how he set up his shop and worked. His name was Paddy and his first career was teaching shop. His advice stood up to the test of time.
One project at a time. Half of the fun is in the reading, planning, acquiring the right piece of wood.
One board at a time. You aren't in production. You don't have to be right the first time after all its only a board. If you have to do it again you'll only get better if you do it again or learn how to hide your mistakes
Treat your tools with respect and if you leave your workshop tidy you'll get a lot less grief from the other half.
Then he brought out a bottle of wine and we solved the rest of the worlds problems.
So here is to Paddy- don't give up woodworking

Hi Tony

I wrote to you over at WoodCentral. The advice I gave you there is very similar to Bill's above. And Kim made the comment that 25 people (a lot more now) have written. It was the same on WC - all just want to say something to help. I thought that the posters at WC were really rooting for you.

When it is not going the way you had hoped in the shop, just walk away. Come back another time. Woodworking is wonderfully relaxing when you are working within yourself, but it can be awfully stressful if you are challenging yourself to learn something new and difficult.

With all techniques, including dovetailing, there are skills to develop first to feel you are working within yourself: in the current circumstances, marking accurately, and then sawing to a line.


Put aside the drawer until you have practiced these and feel that you are comfortable with each. Don't even do the chiseling at this stage. Cut off the end and start again. Do this for a week, and only then add in the chiseling. There are tricks there to ensure the baseline is saved - but that is for another day. One thing at a time.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[Shawn Pixley]

What George said! I read some of the forums he visits, and the only one that is civil is his.

I agree this forum is generally very civil which I appreciate immensely. I don't know machinist forums, but some of the guitar forums I visit are downright nasty. If you are not part of their "in clique" you will get a ration of abuse for the sport of it. I could take it and could probably dish it out too, but I don't want to be that sort of man.

i like this community. We like all families have our differences, but all in all, most folks are civil and helpful.

[Jim Matthews]

Please post for sale items here.

You just joined.

Your first public response to another member was snark?
I can't wait to here what pearls of wisdom you have to offer.

Maybe you should find a forum where people make cutout silhouettes of farmers leaning against trees.

[john zulu]

My first intro to wood working to was refinish an outside bench. After all that scraping and sandpaper I was intrigued by it's possibilities. Forums and utube was a source of information but not a good detailed step on getting things done. Books did provide a good basic foundation of the steps required but lack visual aid.

[Chris Fournier]

Wow.

Turn off your computer, buy some books and go to your shop. Woodworking is fun, you have confused the activity with internet surfing.

Hopefully you haven't read this because you are off line and in your shop.

And as George says, NEVER take up metalworking! Woodworkers are a soft and courteous lot compared to the metal lads.

[Frederick Skelly]

You're first public response to another member was snark?

I also thought that was poorly done Bob. The Community was trying to ENCOURAGE the man.

Hang in there Tony. Theres a ton of good advice to think about in this thread.

Fred

[george wilson]

For some reason the leather workers were always the nicest people in the historic trades shops in Williamsburg. Maybe they felt less competitive than the woodworkers and various metal workers. One of my very best friends is an old English retired harness maker from there. He is the real deal,making harness and leather work since he was a kid.

Every time I made something out of silver,I could see the hackles rise,as if they had a patent ion it. Not much better when I made a flintlock gun,except for a few of the guys there. I think some people were just insecure. And SHOULD have been!!:)

[Adam Cruea]

People have always, are always, and will always play contests. *shrug* Sometimes it's best to ignore it and just walk away.

That's why I really only post here and over at /r/woodworking on Reddit. There's no real waggling going on about who-knows-more-and-better-and-I've-got-97109857-years-of-experience mentality.

I've done the internet forums thing since the late 90's, and I can't tell you where you'll find inactive accounts due to mentalities like this. It annoys me too, but if people want to bicker, bicker. I'll either be off riding my HOG, making sawdust, or playing Diablo III and destroying demons.

Just something my father told me once. . .This is a hobby, and as such, do it when you're in the mood. Not when you're depressed, but when you want to and you it can help boost your mood.

THough much like Mr. Weaver, I have the same bluntness problem, so if I say something here, I'd say it in real life. As a side note, this has caused me to be banned from meetings at work due to telling people their ideas were outright dumb. With that said, out of concern for your mental health, if an internet forum triggers your PTSD, see a therapist. There's no shame in it, man. I'll loudly admit I go to see a therapist, and I don't have PTSD. Best move I ever made, and hopefully you can kick the military mentality I've seen where therapy is for weak people or crazy people. It's not. It's for people that want to better themselves.

And thanks for your service, dude. :)

[Tom Stenzel]

I also thought that was poorly done Bob. The Community was trying to ENCOURAGE the man.

Hang in there Tony. Theres a ton of good advice to think about in this thread.

Fred

Giving the OP the benefit of doubt, I think when he posted he knew exactly what he meant, but when he wrote the post he forgot to include some minor details. Like the event he was writing about occurred somewhere else.

I know I've done worse.

To the OP,

Wood working has been going on since Ogg sat in his tree, looked around, and decided it could use a little work. Or Mrs. Ogg said that if someone would just invent the picture frame the cave paintings would look better.

With all that history and different cultures all over the world, the idea that there's one way, or even one best way to accomplish any task is silly. Are you looking at simple differences of opinion as contention?

That you've posted here already says something about your wood working. Most people use power tools for everything everywhere they can. Does that make what you do wrong? Does that make ALL OF US here in the Neander group wrong?

As far as on line forums go, another non-working one I belong to has a topic area where the moderator wrote:

********
Be forwarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule.
********

Believe me the posters there take that to heart. Read some of THOSE forums if you want to see what contention really looks like! SMC is a place where I come to to relax.

-Tom

[Jim Matthews]

As far as on line forums go, another non-working one I belong to has a topic area where the moderator wrote:

********
Be forwarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule.
********

Believe me the posters there take that to heart. Read some of THOSE forums if you want to see what contention really looks like! SMC is a place where I come to to relax.

-Tom

If I wanted that kind of abuse about my skillset, I would just ask my kids what they think.

In my opinion, this site is successful precisely because that sort of posing doesn't fly.

We've people with proven track records that are immensely helpful, here.
We've got genuinely talented hobbyists that produce amazing works, too.

There's absolutely no reason to tolerate somebody kicking sand when they're just another hack.
Plenty of places for that, elsewhere.

[Brian Holcombe]

If you ask a very successful person to tell their story they will recall the days in which they struggled. They will recall their triumphs, times in which the odds were against them and they were set to fail but did not. The impetus for continuous improvement is rarely continuous success.

In fact if you look at the work of many successful woodworkers you'll find that their best work was often during times of struggle where they were finding their way.

[george wilson]

It would not occur to me to sell my tools because of strife on some forum. The enjoyment or accomplishment that a hobby may give has nothing to do with some guys you don't even really know.

Remember that you do not really even know those who are making trouble for you. For all you know,a heckler could be some out of line kid.

[Chris Fournier]

If you would honestly pack in a past time because of comments on a forum about said past time you are already done. Holy cow, we all need to stick to our knitting. Perhaps you should quit engaging on forums?

[Steve Voigt]

If you would honestly pack in a past time because of comments on a forum about said past time you are already done. Holy cow, we all need to stick to our knitting. Perhaps you should quit engaging on forums?

The guy already apologized and explained that he was having a bad day b/c PTSD. What are you piling on for?
It's easy when you are whole to assume everyone else is. It ain't so. If a guy with PTSD in a wheel chair wants to work wood, you could show a little compassion instead of taking cheap shots.