Hand plane & Walnut question

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Hey all,

I'm fairly new to woodworking. Been only doing it for 6 months. Been moving through different techniques with different tools and now I've moved onto planes. My current project is 2 nightstands. A few weeks ago I decided to purchase a new hand planer. I bought a Stanley sweetheart #4. I've had some old planers (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=402&m=971630307&q=n&rdgt=1404824705&it=1405256705&et=1405429505&priceret=23.31&pg=%7E%7E3&k=452b01e9b3a861e008ceddc4efbc8e66&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamazon%2Ecom%2Fdp%2FB004U6M IGE%2Fref%3Dasc%5Fdf%5FB004U6MIGE3204677%3Fsmid%3D ATVPDKIKX0DER%26tag%3Dpg%2D1431%2D01%2D20%26linkCo de%3Ddf0%26creative%3D395097%26creativeASIN%3DB004 U6MIGE&st=feed&mt=%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7En%7E%7E%7E), but they were nothing special and didn't want to restore them. As I use it more and more, I find myself REALLY enjoying it.

I decided I wanted to plane all the pieces I made for the nightstands and I'm just not I'm doing it right. They're walnut and I tend to get some tear out. Is it because the blade isn't sharp enough?

Sorry if this is a really noob question but hand planes are completely new to me haha.

So heres a few of my questions w/ pictures.

1 ) Compared to the planers (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=402&m=971630307&q=n&rdgt=1404824705&it=1405256705&et=1405429505&priceret=23.31&pg=%7E%7E3&k=452b01e9b3a861e008ceddc4efbc8e66&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamazon%2Ecom%2Fdp%2FB004U6M IGE%2Fref%3Dasc%5Fdf%5FB004U6MIGE3204677%3Fsmid%3D ATVPDKIKX0DER%26tag%3Dpg%2D1431%2D01%2D20%26linkCo de%3Ddf0%26creative%3D395097%26creativeASIN%3DB004 U6MIGE&st=feed&mt=%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7En%7E%7E%7E) I had, the blade was pretty damn sharp out of the box. I've been using that since. Right now I only have a 1000 grit stone, but would like to buy a 16,000 grit glass stone. Is that to big of a jump between the both? I read a review that someone said they just used 1000 - 16000 and that worked great.

2) I was thinking about getting a Lie Nielsen low angle plane for my second one. ( save up for it http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif ) If I'm mostly making cabinets/furniture 24 inches long about would it be better to use that, then use the #4 after?

3) I had one piece come out pretty nicely, and compared to just sanding.. the grain, and wood pops just so much more. But with my sides now, I seem to be getting some tear out around the knots, or in certain spots. It's kinda hard to see, but how would I fix that? Maybe the blade just isn't sharp enough?
You can see here..
http://i.imgur.com/rWysnyD.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/dxHTcfv.jpg)

4) This box I had made for my dad ( fathers day ). Just kinda a random question, but could you plane a top like that?
http://i.imgur.com/Cf5qHmO.jpg

5) Is the #4 plane good enough for a finished look?

From what I read, you want the mouth closed kinda tight for a more finished look, and for knots. Right?

Anyways, just some of the random questions I have. I'm starting to obsess with the planers (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=402&m=971630307&q=n&rdgt=1404824705&it=1405256705&et=1405429505&priceret=23.31&pg=%7E%7E3&k=452b01e9b3a861e008ceddc4efbc8e66&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamazon%2Ecom%2Fdp%2FB004U6M IGE%2Fref%3Dasc%5Fdf%5FB004U6MIGE3204677%3Fsmid%3D ATVPDKIKX0DER%26tag%3Dpg%2D1431%2D01%2D20%26linkCo de%3Ddf0%26creative%3D395097%26creativeASIN%3DB004 U6MIGE&st=feed&mt=%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7En%7E%7E%7E) now compared to sanding and want to be on the right track.

Here's a picture of the piece that came out pretty nicely with only a few visible marks.
http://i.imgur.com/xUari8o.jpg


thanks

[Judson Green]

This is the plane you have? If so, its NOT sharp out of the box, I have one too. An A2 iron. You might need diamond stones to sharpen.

Welcome to the creek.

292666

[Jonathan Gennaro]

This is the plane you have? If so, its NOT sharp out of the box, I have one too. An A2 iron. You might need diamond stones to sharpen.

Welcome to the creek.

292666

Yes that's the plane I have.. OK noted.. Would this be what I want?
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080994/29987/Shapton-Glass-Stone-16000-Grit-5-mm.aspx

Thanks

[David Eisenhauer]

Probably need to do a search here on "sharpening plane irons" or something to that effect. You are at the first stage of a whole new thing and there are guys who are good at sharpening plane irons that have listed the steps that work for them. Also, probably very good You Tube videos available to learn from. As always, there will be different guys with different ideas, but I would not get too hung up on nuances between techniques when first starting out. There are a couple-three ways to go when first starting out: wet/dry sand paper, diamond-ceramic stones or oilstones. You can start spending money chasing things before you understand the process so read up first before buying. I think a two-stone 1,000 - 1,600 grit jump is kind of big and you may even need to start a little coarser than 1,000, but read what the experts say and make up your mind after that. They will also point out where they purchase their sharpening supplies and which vendors will help the most in selling you what you really need for your own particular need. Nice box for your Dad. Good stuff.

[David Weaver]

Anything that is a polishing stone would work fine for you. The Glasstone 16k is a way to spend the most to get the least, especially from woodcraft. Pretty much anything out there that's in the 8k range or finer will be just fine for you, and something 8k may make more sense.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

(no affiliation with the seller - but for reference, Woodcraft/JWW try to sell the same stone for $104).

1) that plane probably has a cap iron, it's a good time to learn to use it (set it very close to eliminate tearout)
2) you can buy a low angle plane, it'll probably initially be easier. Functionally, it will provide no benefit in smoothing once you learn to use a more common bevel down smoother. The only place it'd really provide much is if you're making end grain butchers blocks or cutting boards
3) cap iron and sharpness are the two things that will solve tearout problems. Scraping will, too, but there's no need to resort to it
4) you could probably plane it using a smoother and holding it on the skew - make sure the cap iron is set properly and it's sharp
5) Any decent #4 has the capability to smooth plane anything you're likely to ever use

Google "setting a cap iron" and find an article on wood central to get an idea on setting the cap iron.

[Judson Green]

I don't know, others are better qualified to answer that question, but i use diamond stones from "eze-lap". Works OK still harder to sharping than vintage stuff.

[Judson Green]

David it has a cap iron but a very steep one, not the curvy ones on a vintage 4. I rounded mine over a bit, sort of bull nose.

[David Weaver]

A blunt cap iron will work fine to stop tearout, it just is a little less elegant and can be a bit harder on the wood the shaving is getting rammed back toward.

[David Eisenhauer]

Quick adder - If I were you, I would not purchase another plane until I learned how to sharpen and use the ones I already had. This is that point in the process where you have to stay at a spot in the evolution for a little while until you get some basic knowledge and technique down, then you will move forward. Lots of folks buy a plane, use it-like it, but then get defeated when it gets dull. Without knowing you or your experience level, I will say (no disrespect intended at all) that it is possible that may never have even used a truly sharp plane iron yet if the new one you bought is the sharpest one you have used. Learning how to sharpen and how to adjust the plane is very, very integral to the whole process and will allow you to move ahead.

[Judson Green]

Lot of truth to that, but I found that sharping A2 steel was a real bummer and as a result I wasn't learning very fast how to sharpen. Getting a vintage plane (and for a lot less $$$) will make for a more positive feedback, better feeling about working by hand and flatten the sharping learning curve.

Just my 2¢

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Anything that is a polishing stone would work fine for you. The Glasstone 16k is a way to spend the most to get the least, especially from woodcraft. Pretty much anything out there that's in the 8k range or finer will be just fine for you, and something 8k may make more sense.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

(no affiliation with the seller - but for reference, Woodcraft/JWW try to sell the same stone for $104).

1) that plane probably has a cap iron, it's a good time to learn to use it (set it very close to eliminate tearout)
2) you can buy a low angle plane, it'll probably initially be easier. Functionally, it will provide no benefit in smoothing once you learn to use a more common bevel down smoother. The only place it'd really provide much is if you're making end grain butchers blocks or cutting boards
3) cap iron and sharpness are the two things that will solve tearout problems. Scraping will, too, but there's no need to resort to it
4) you could probably plane it using a smoother and holding it on the skew - make sure the cap iron is set properly and it's sharp
5) Any decent #4 has the capability to smooth plane anything you're likely to ever use

Google "setting a cap iron" and find an article on wood central to get an idea on setting the cap iron.

Thank you so much. This is extremely helpful! I will look up the setting of the cap iron like you suggested. Just glancing over what I've found its the exactly what I was looking for.
I have a 1000 grit stone right now, and pick up a 8000.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Quick adder - If I were you, I would not purchase another plane until I learned how to sharpen and use the ones I already had. This is that point in the process where you have to stay at a spot in the evolution for a little while until you get some basic knowledge and technique down, then you will move forward. Lots of folks buy a plane, use it-like it, but then get defeated when it gets dull. Without knowing you or your experience level, I will say (no disrespect intended at all) that it is possible that may never have even used a truly sharp plane iron yet if the new one you bought is the sharpest one you have used. Learning how to sharpen and how to adjust the plane is very, very integral to the whole process and will allow you to move ahead.

Yeah I don't plan on purchasing a new plane for a while until I get this one down. Yeah, compared to the other planes I've had It was alot sharper then anything I've had before. Live and learn. I'll learn to sharpen it.

[Shawn Pixley]

Welcome to the wide world of woodworking. If we knew where you lived, there could be other "creekers" who could let you try one of their planes so you'd have a reference. As to your questions:

1.) The stock blade on that Stanley isn't sharp enough. I think the gap between a 1000 and a 16,000 grit is too much. You'll need to learn to sharpen. Read up on it and try a method that works for you. There is no one right way. Sharpen, sharpen, sharpen.

2.) for your next plane I would suggest a decent jack plane. A vintage Bailey 5 is a really good choice. You could buy one and fix it up. You could buy one already tuned. You could get a LN or a LV. But after buying sharpen, sharpen, sharpen....

3.) Three things address tear out (assuming you're planing in the right direction. You are, aren't you?) if the blade is sharp. Well set cap irion, close mouth, and high angle frog. I've never used that particular plane to see whether the mouth can be closed, so I might concentrate on the cap iron. Sharpen the blade, ensure you're planing in the right direction, and tight cap iron space. Yes that can be planed to look gorgeous.

4.) Yes that could be planed but many (most) would try a card scraper given the right angle grain.

5.) Yes a good number 4 can give you a great finish. Yours? I don't know.

Did I mention sharpening? Have fun!

[Jim Koepke]

Jonathan,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. If you are in the Pacific Northwest, I am one of those "other Creekers who would let you try some of my planes."

I like having a 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit water stones. Often I will just touch up an edge on the 4000 and 8000 stone.


I seem to be getting some tear out around the knots, or in certain spots.

The area around knots is particularly tricky. The grain seems to twist every which way and the wood is more swirly in the area around knots.

If at all possible going to a Lie-Nielsen tool event would beneficial in helping you to learn a bit more about hand planes.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

I will echo the others who mentioned the cap iron. It makes a huge difference in tearout, and basically enables you to plane almost without regard to the grain direction. For me it is night and day difference planing knots and such with a closely set chipbreaker.

As for sharpening, I would get a cheap honing guide ($10 or $15) and some wet/dry sandpaper (220, 400, 600, 1000/1200, and 2000) and use them on a flat surface (a cheap glass cutting board works well). That way you can start getting sharp blades and learning what sharp feels like, and get on with your current project. Then when you have a little more experience and don't have the pressures of a project weighing on you, look up nicer sharpening setups and make a well-researched decision. There is an overwhelming amount of information/opinion about sharpening...it takes a while to sift through, and the equipment isn't that cheap. The sandpaper will get the job done without too much initial expense.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Jonathan,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. If you are in the Pacific Northwest, I am one of those "other Creekers who would let you try some of my planes."

I like having a 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit water stones. Often I will just touch up an edge on the 4000 and 8000 stone.



The area around knots is particularly tricky. The grain seems to twist every which way and the wood is more swirly in the area around knots.

If at all possible going to a Lie-Nielsen tool event would beneficial in helping you to learn a bit more about hand planes.

jtk

Thanks,

I've updated my location. I never thought people would be so kinda to let me try their tools haha. I will look for a Lie-Nielson event. I've been looking for some in my area now that I've been so into woodworking. I have a local woodworking store about 30 minutes away and think I'm going to try to go pick up a 8000 stone after work tomorrow.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

I will echo the others who mentioned the cap iron. It makes a huge difference in tearout, and basically enables you to plane almost without regard to the grain direction. For me it is night and day difference planing knots and such with a closely set chipbreaker.

As for sharpening, I would get a cheap honing guide ($10 or $15) and some wet/dry sandpaper (220, 400, 600, 1000/1200, and 2000) and use them on a flat surface (a cheap glass cutting board works well). That way you can start getting sharp blades and learning what sharp feels like, and get on with your current project. Then when you have a little more experience and don't have the pressures of a project weighing on you, look up nicer sharpening setups and make a well-researched decision. There is an overwhelming amount of information/opinion about sharpening...it takes a while to sift through, and the equipment isn't that cheap. The sandpaper will get the job done without too much initial expense.

I do have a honing guide that I bought the other day for my chisels. I have yet to try it with the planer blade. I will give it a shot tonight.
Also, the cap iron is a huge awakening. I can't wait to go home tonight after work and try closing it alittle. I never really understood it. I found this site
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/test/articles_935.shtml
and this makes alot of sense to me..

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Anything that is a polishing stone would work fine for you. The Glasstone 16k is a way to spend the most to get the least, especially from woodcraft. Pretty much anything out there that's in the 8k range or finer will be just fine for you, and something 8k may make more sense.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

(no affiliation with the seller - but for reference, Woodcraft/JWW try to sell the same stone for $104).

1) that plane probably has a cap iron, it's a good time to learn to use it (set it very close to eliminate tearout)
2) you can buy a low angle plane, it'll probably initially be easier. Functionally, it will provide no benefit in smoothing once you learn to use a more common bevel down smoother. The only place it'd really provide much is if you're making end grain butchers blocks or cutting boards
3) cap iron and sharpness are the two things that will solve tearout problems. Scraping will, too, but there's no need to resort to it
4) you could probably plane it using a smoother and holding it on the skew - make sure the cap iron is set properly and it's sharp
5) Any decent #4 has the capability to smooth plane anything you're likely to ever use

Google "setting a cap iron" and find an article on wood central to get an idea on setting the cap iron.

Is this a good stone to buy? The one you linked?
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

Or even this?
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004486/8360/Norton-Combination-Waterstone-40008000-Grit.aspx


My local hardwood store sells a 8000 stone for 145 which is kinda lot compared to the one you linked. The only other store im close to is woodcraft, and rockler. Any other good stones to look at? I also would need a flattening stone as well correct?

[Jim Koepke]

I like to support local business. I do not support them by paying almost twice the cost of something mail ordered. Some local businesses will match prices, but this seems like a long reach at that price.

Shopping around may save a lot of money.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Is this a good stone to buy? The one you linked?
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

Or even this?
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004486/8360/Norton-Combination-Waterstone-40008000-Grit.aspx


My local hardwood store sells a 8000 stone for 145 which is kinda lot compared to the one you linked. The only other store im close to is woodcraft, and rockler. Any other good stones to look at? I also would need a flattening stone as well correct?

The norton stone would be fine, as would the kitayama stone (I like the kitayama brand stone better, it's a little finer, but both are good stones). Either could be flattened with wet and dry sandpaper, or flattened dry with standard al-ox sandpaper, so you wouldn't need to buy a diamond hone.

If your local hardwood store is selling a shapton, norton, king, naniwa, or any other sharpening stone of common make for $145, then you want to give your money to someone else.

There have been times that the kitayama was available for as little as $62, and at that it's a great stone.

[James Owen]

Welcome to the Creek, Jonathon!

1. Stones: water stones will work fine. Since you already have a 1,000 grit stone, I'd suggest a 4,000 grit and an 8,000 grit. A-2 will sharpen fine on them; but it will frequently take a bit longer than sharpening an O-1 iron. Diamonds also work nicely, but a bit pricier.
You should be able to pick up a quality 4,000 grit and 8,000 grit stone for around $40 to $70 each, or a pair of 1000/4000 grit and 1200/8000 grit combination stones for around $150 for both stones; with the combination stones, you have all the grits you really need, unless you have to remove a really BIG chip or a LOT of metal to rehab an iron or chisel.
Woodcraft, Rockler, Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, Traditional Woodworker, and Tools For Working Wood are all reputable dealers with good to absolutely great customer service, although their prices can vary substantially.
Perhaps the most important part: pick a method and stick with it until you get good at it.
Sharpening is an area of woodworking where you can spend a gazillion dollars on cool gadgets, and still not get any sharper than with a basic set up. Unless you have some very special sharpening requirements, you can buy a sharpening set-up that will allow you to sharpen all of your tools for around $150 to $200 dollars. If you like gadgets and want to buy them, your choice, of course, but they're not necessary to get a good edge on your tools.
Sharpening is also an area where people can get rather testy about certain aspects of it. If someone tells you that you can get "sharp" only by doing "X" (and "X" just so happens to be what they do), I'd suggest believing them in about 3 weeks....
Like most other things in woodworking, and especially hand tool woodworking, there are many paths to the same end; some are more efficient, some are easier, some depend on having a specific set of tools and/or skills, but in the end, you still get there - same thing with sharpening. The most important things about sharpening, in my view, are that you can get the degree of sharpness you need for the project at hand and that you can reliably duplicate it; everything else is pretty much extraneous....
2. The LN low angle jack plane would be a good choice. It's good for planing end grain (especially on a shooting board with the hot dog attachment), and you can switch out the irons for working on gnarly grain that might give a standard angle plane some difficulty.
Assuming that you are in the process of building your tool set, will be using only hand tools, and depending on whether you start with rough-sawn wood or surfaced wood you'll eventually want (rough sawn) a scrub plane, a jack plane, a jointer plane, and a smoother plane; or (surfaced wood) a jack plane, a jointer plane, and a smoother plane. A low angle adjustable mouth block plane is a handy addition to either set, and if you start doing a lot of mortise and tenon joinery, you'll want to consider a shoulder plane or a router plane for trimming tenon cheeks, etc.; the router plane is the more versatile of the two.
3. In my experience, the most important contributor to a cleanly planed surface is a truly SHARP iron. Next comes a closely set (1/64" to 1/32" or so) chip breaker, and then a tight mouth opening. The iron should be set up so that it extends through the sole just enough to take a shaving of .001" or .002", with the mouth opening just wide enough that the shavings don't jam in the mouth and throat of the plane.
4. In a word, YES!
5. A Bailey-style metal #4-sized plane has been the standard finishing plane for at least 140 years; before that - for hundreds of, if not a couple of thousand, years (and still to this day) - a more or less #4-sized wooden plane performed the same functions. With a properly set up plane and a bit of skill, you can plane a surface that is ready to finish without any further ado. After a bit of practice, you'll find that you can prepare a surface with a hand plane, ready for finishing, in considerably less than half the time that it takes to sand it to the same degree of readiness. I personally like a planed surface better, and really like the absence of all of the noise, switching grits, and all of the floating saw dust and necessary protective gear. I also like the fact that a hand plane is a tool that can be handed down to the next several generations of woodworkers, when the time comes, instead of ending up in the landfill, like many tailed apprentices....

You might also want to take a look at a couple of books, either on hand tools in general or on hand planes specifically.
The Anarchist's Tool Chest is a good primer on what you really need in your tool set, and is very entertaining, as well.
Handplane Essentials is a good overview on hand planes.
If you want to save money on quality tools and go with some vintage tools, Mike Dunbar's Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools is an excellent step-by-step guide.
These are just a couple of the many excellent books out there on hand tool working and hand tools.

I hope that this is of some use to you.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Welcome to the Creek, Jonathon!

1. Stones: water stones will work fine. Since you already have a 1,000 grit stone, I'd suggest a 4,000 grit and an 8,000 grit. A-2 will sharpen fine on them; but it will frequently take a bit longer than sharpening an O-1 iron. Diamonds also work nicely, but a bit pricier.
You should be able to pick up a quality 4,000 grit and 8,000 grit stone for around $40 to $70 each, or a pair of 1000/4000 grit and 1200/8000 grit combination stones for around $150 for both stones; with the combination stones, you have all the grits you really need, unless you have to remove a really BIG chip or a LOT of metal to rehab an iron or chisel.
Woodcraft, Rockler, Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, Traditional Woodworker, and Tools For Working Wood are all reputable dealers with good to absolutely great customer service, although their prices can vary substantially.
Perhaps the most important part: pick a method and stick with it until you get good at it.
Sharpening is an area of woodworking where you can spend a gazillion dollars on cool gadgets, and still not get any sharper than with a basic set up. Unless you have some very special sharpening requirements, you can buy a sharpening set-up that will allow you to sharpen all of your tools for around $150 to $200 dollars. If you like gadgets and want to buy them, your choice, of course, but they're not necessary to get a good edge on your tools.
Sharpening is also an area where people can get rather testy about certain aspects of it. If someone tells you that you can get "sharp" only by doing "X" (and "X" just so happens to be what they do), I'd suggest believing them in about 3 weeks....
Like most other things in woodworking, and especially hand tool woodworking, there are many paths to the same end; some are more efficient, some are easier, some depend on having a specific set of tools and/or skills, but in the end, you still get there - same thing with sharpening. The most important things about sharpening, in my view, are that you can get the degree of sharpness you need for the project at hand and that you can reliably duplicate it; everything else is pretty much extraneous....
2. The LN low angle jack plane would be a good choice. It's good for planing end grain (especially on a shooting board with the hot dog attachment), and you can switch out the irons for working on gnarly grain that might give a standard angle plane some difficulty.
Assuming that you are in the process of building your tool set, will be using only hand tools, and depending on whether you start with rough-sawn wood or surfaced wood you'll eventually want (rough sawn) a scrub plane, a jack plane, a jointer plane, and a smoother plane; or (surfaced wood) a jack plane, a jointer plane, and a smoother plane. A low angle adjustable mouth block plane is a handy addition to either set, and if you start doing a lot of mortise and tenon joinery, you'll want to consider a shoulder plane or a router plane for trimming tenon cheeks, etc.; the router plane is the more versatile of the two.
3. In my experience, the most important contributor to a cleanly planed surface is a truly SHARP iron. Next comes a closely set (1/64" to 1/32" or so) chip breaker, and then a tight mouth opening. The iron should be set up so that it extends through the sole just enough to take a shaving of .001" or .002", with the mouth opening just wide enough that the shavings don't jam in the mouth and throat of the plane.
4. In a word, YES!
5. A Bailey-style metal #4-sized plane has been the standard finishing plane for at least 140 years; before that - for hundreds of, if not a couple of thousand, years (and still to this day) - a more or less #4-sized wooden plane performed the same functions. With a properly set up plane and a bit of skill, you can plane a surface that is ready to finish without any further ado. After a bit of practice, you'll find that you can prepare a surface with a hand plane, ready for finishing, in considerably less than half the time that it takes to sand it to the same degree of readiness. I personally like a planed surface better, and really like the absence of all of the noise, switching grits, and all of the floating saw dust and necessary protective gear. I also like the fact that a hand plane is a tool that can be handed down to the next several generations of woodworkers, when the time comes, instead of ending up in the landfill, like many tailed apprentices....

You might also want to take a look at a couple of books, either on hand tools in general or on hand planes specifically.
The Anarchist's Tool Chest is a good primer on what you really need in your tool set, and is very entertaining, as well.
Handplane Essentials is a good overview on hand planes.
If you want to save money on quality tools and go with some vintage tools, Mike Dunbar's Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking Tools is an excellent step-by-step guide.
These are just a couple of the many excellent books out there on hand tool working and hand tools.

I hope that this is of some use to you.


Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that out. It's MUCH appreciated! Thank you to everyone actually.

I went out last night and bought a 4000/8000 water stone. I watched the lie-nelson video on sharpening 10 times and gave it a shot!
I was able to shave the hair on my arm and it now cuts like butter. I also did alot of reading on the cap iron and moved that really close. All the tear out i was getting is gone now.

I will now finish my nightstands by smooth planing everything and I'll make sure to post a picture when they're done. :)

I will also look into all the other planes you mentioned now. Now i know what a sharp blade feels like. lol

THANKS!!!!!!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Sorry to derail the thread w/o any useful info, but is anyone else seeing all the instances of the word "planers" in Jonathan's first post link to Amazon pages? The link URLs all seem to go through "pgpartners", which is a Price Grabber site thing. I'm just curious if this a new monetization thing from SMC, intentional linking from Jonathan (which seems odd, since they seem to link to a fishing thing), or if there's something odd with Jonathan's computer, or with my computer. I'm not seeing this anywhere else, so all of these seem a bit odd. I see it looks like Jonathan posted this same question over at another forum a day before he posted here, so maybe it's just a case of that forum inserting those links, and his copy-pasting the same thread here?

I know this isn't super helpful to the topic at hand, (but I think anything I could add has been covered by others) I'm just curious if anyone else is seeing it - I'm wondering if my browser has been compromised somehow.

[David Weaver]

No, I think you have some sort of bot installed on your browser, bot or addin or whatever it's called. Check your add ins. If you don't, you might have a redirect type virus or something, which is a real pain in the butt (harmless generally, but very annoying because you get redirected sometimes and links added where there aren't links - the viruses are designed to generate click-advertisement revenue for the virus writer).

[Shawn Pixley]

Thanks,

I've updated my location. I never thought people would be so kinda to let me try their tools haha. I will look for a Lie-Nielson event. I've been looking for some in my area now that I've been so into woodworking. I have a local woodworking store about 30 minutes away and think I'm going to try to go pick up a 8000 stone after work tomorrow.

Jonathan,

Thanks for adding your location. I am not too far from you. If you wanted to come up to Ventura County some time, please send me a PM to set up a time. I have a LN low angle jack, and a mix of other planes (both old and refurbished and new) that you are welcome to try. You may also try various sharpening techniques (Water stones, oil stones, or the worksharp) though it looks like you have figured that out already.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Sorry to derail the thread w/o any useful info, but is anyone else seeing all the instances of the word "planers" in Jonathan's first post link to Amazon pages? The link URLs all seem to go through "pgpartners", which is a Price Grabber site thing. I'm just curious if this a new monetization thing from SMC, intentional linking from Jonathan (which seems odd, since they seem to link to a fishing thing), or if there's something odd with Jonathan's computer, or with my computer. I'm not seeing this anywhere else, so all of these seem a bit odd. I see it looks like Jonathan posted this same question over at another forum a day before he posted here, so maybe it's just a case of that forum inserting those links, and his copy-pasting the same thread here?

I know this isn't super helpful to the topic at hand, (but I think anything I could add has been covered by others) I'm just curious if anyone else is seeing it - I'm wondering if my browser has been compromised somehow.

Yeah that's firefox doing it. I didn't put any links on the planer words.. It does it for me too on this forum, and others. I think its just a addon like someone else said.

Yes, I did post the same question in another forum as I was waiting for my account to be registered on this forum. I waited for like 2 or 3 days to get access to it but I guess not having my last name completely filled out was what the hold up was. I really wanted to only post it here, as everyone on this forum seems to be more knowledgeable but I got ansy ;)

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Jonathan,

Thanks for adding your location. I am not too far from you. If you wanted to come up to Ventura County some time, please send me a PM to set up a time. I have a LN low angle jack, and a mix of other planes (both old and refurbished and new) that you are welcome to try. You may also try various sharpening techniques (Water stones, oil stones, or the worksharp) though it looks like you have figured that out already.


Thanks so much!!
I will for sure PM you if im ever heading up that way. For now, I think I got it down. I have a couple older planes that I'm going to practice on more tonight. :)

[Judson Green]

Jonathan something that I did to my plane that's exactly like yours to round over the edges a little bit, were the sole meets the sides and the front and back of the plane. Won't help your tear out at all, but made a better experience for me. Just take a file and a few strokes, not much is needed.

I also slightly rounded the leading edge of the chip breaker. I did this by dragging it backwards while increasing the angle on sandpaper glued down to MDF. Not sure if what I did was right, maybe others could chime in on that.

I mostly use this place for shooing now as I prefer vintage 4s to smooth and sharpen and this plane is the only one I have that is square and it has lots of mass, very heavy compared to vintage 4s.

Just my 2¢

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Jonathan something that I did to my plane that's exactly like yours to round over the edges a little bit, were the sole meets the sides and the front and back of the plane. Won't help your tear out at all, but made a better experience for me. Just take a file and a few strokes, not much is needed.

I also slightly rounded the leading edge of the chip breaker. I did this by dragging it backwards while increasing the angle on sandpaper glued down to MDF. Not sure if what I did was right, maybe others could chime in on that.

I mostly use this place for shooing now as I prefer vintage 4s to smooth and sharpen and this plane is the only one I have that is square and it has lots of mass, very heavy compared to vintage 4s.

Just my 2¢

Oh ok! Thanks. I'll try it on one of my older planes and see if it makes a difference. If it does, I'll do it on my new one.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

No, I think you have some sort of bot installed on your browser, bot or addin or whatever it's called. Check your add ins. If you don't, you might have a redirect type virus or something, which is a real pain in the butt (harmless generally, but very annoying because you get redirected sometimes and links added where there aren't links - the viruses are designed to generate click-advertisement revenue for the virus writer).


Yeah that's firefox doing it. I didn't put any links on the planer words.. It does it for me too on this forum, and others. I think its just a addon like someone else said.

Yes, I did post the same question in another forum as I was waiting for my account to be registered on this forum. I waited for like 2 or 3 days to get access to it but I guess not having my last name completely filled out was what the hold up was. I really wanted to only post it here, as everyone on this forum seems to be more knowledgeable but I got ansy ;)

I'm confused now - are folks saying this is my computer, or Jonathan's? I'm seeing the word "planers" being a link three times in the first post in this thread ; and I just tried a few different browsers - I'm seeing it on both Chrome and Safari on my computer, the browser on my iPhone, and Firefox on my wife's PC. If I'm understanding you correctly, David, you're not seeing that word as a link? I managed to get something wacky on all those computers? If I do a "reply with quote" to Jonathan's original post, the vBulletin code for a link is included around those words when it quotes Jonathan's message, so I'm thinking that means it made it into the actual SMC post, and is not being added by my browsers, but I get nervous.

Sorry to continue to derail this, Jonathan.

[David Weaver]

Actually, I see what you're talking about. I didn't notice it at first. Those are embedded in the post for some reason.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

To add something at least somewhat related to thread, I love that box, Jonathan - it's purty as all get-out! A very sharp and very finely set plane with a chip breaker could do that job, but the changing grain directions can be a bit of a hassle, in my experience. The chip breaker can help avoid tear-out, but since you're working across the grain rather than with or against it, in my experience, even if you get a decently smooth surface, you get some uneven lustre however you approach it with a plane - I wouldn't mind using a plane to level the surface if need be (although I'd try to get close) but I'd probably tackle final pre-finish steps with either a sander or a card scraper. But with grain going perpendicular like that, I imagine even if I went with a card scraper, I might end up hitting it with very fine grit paper to get an even sheen across the whole thing with certain finishes.

[David Weaver]

I would actually ask a question about those links in the tech support forum on here. IIRC, Keith mentioned that there was some part of vbulletin that allowed (and generated) that type of linking. It may be SMC itself creating those links.

[Judson Green]

Oh ok! Thanks. I'll try it on one of my older planes and see if it makes a difference. If it does, I'll do it on my new one.


I've found that the old ones don't need it as they've already been "broken in" for lack of a better term. Though I did have a vintage 4 that seemed to leave a mark due to a burr or something in the mouth area.

Also I kinda is the front edge of the adjustable/moveable front sole and the leading non adjusting area that sort of turns into prongs if the mouth is closed up.

http://youtu.be/zQyjLV92224

Around minute 4. You don't need to worry about flatting your plane it the other stuff.

But maybe just use as is, you'll get a feel for it later.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Ok I have one more question, but didn't want to have to make another thread for it. I have one more older planer that my dad gave me out of his garage. Its pretty beat up, but I can't figure out who made it or how old it is.. Is this plane worthy of restoring?

292890 292891

[Judson Green]

For sure! Clean it up, sharpen and use it!

[Jonathan Gennaro]

For sure! Clean it up, sharpen and use it!

Any idea what brand it is?

[Judson Green]

Nope. Ya might wanna start another thread, it would get noticed and probably identified right away.

[Jim Koepke]

Any idea what brand it is?


Nope. Ya might wanna start another thread, it would get noticed and probably identified right away.

No idea on the brand here either.

It does look to be one of the less desirable models made of stamped steel.

jtk

[Winton Applegate]

There are levels of sharp.
There are levels of what a plane can do.

Takes time and practice to do the most with the least.
You are getting great advice and about anything David W. tells you is going to work and work fast and well. Especially for bevel down with a chip breaker.
I can’t really add to or argue with that.
I could argue with the whole chip breaker in total but I will be good and just be a cheerful clown.

Welcome to SawMill Creek. Near as I have found you can not do better as far as REAL advice.
Thanks for posting photos ! Nice work and I enjoyed seeing what you are working on.


Can I plane this lid on the very nice box?
Oh sure plane in toward the center from the sides.
Use a SHARP blade (see bellow SHARP as opposed to sharp or “sharp”)(stay away from schawrp).


schawrp : that is how the blade comes from the factory.
off a sander so scratches and kind of wire edged that is folded over some. On a microscopic level; you may or may not be able to see this with the un aided eye.


the back not particularly flat though much, much, much flatter than say ten years ago.
compared to your power planer blades it feels sharp . . . IF . . .for no other reason than the angle of the edge is skinnier.


“sharp” : that is after a newbie (or a cantankerous person who likes to talk more than listen) goes after the blade with all the power grinders and stones in the world OR the reverse just one stone and


no jig . . . doesn’t matter . . . then strops the heck out of it on a soft leather strop with lots of some kind of magic dust on it.
Oh it is blindingly sharp for sure. It cuts arm hair pretty much. Has that nice satisfying pull on the hair that is all so familiar.
Problem is the edge isn’t smooth it is a polished saw tooth and the FACETS are all rounded over like a microscopic version of a cold chisel.
Cuts wood well ? NAH DUDE, nah . . .



sharp : That is

when you put the blade in a jig,
go at it with a few stones ending with at least a 6000 and
the blade geometry is generic say bedded at 45°, sharpening angle 30°, bevel down and
cuts arm hair and MORE IMPORTANTLY end grain with the blade out of the plane and flat back on the wood.




When taken through arm hair (which is pretty much meaningless when it comes to testing a plane blade's sharpness; I hope you are beginning to realize) a sharp edge is going to cut arm hair with no real pull feeling the hair just falls.



SHARP :

The above stones and jig to 8000 at least. A nice quality 8000 stone not the cheepy off brand on sale close out. I have a bit lesser quality (and price), 10,000 that does not do as good a job as one of my nice quality 8000s.
Keep the blade the hell away from the strops, at least soft strops. Strops are for carving chisels in my experience.
The angle of the facet matches the wood hardness and grain characteristics.
Read, plane, read, plane, buy more and different wood of all types, read, plane, read, plane.
Repeat.
The type of plane matches the wood, grain type and orientation.
The plane is PROPERLY MADE and FETTLED if needed.
Practice a lot
Think a lot
Feel and be sensitive to the steel type and what is happening at the edge. Both during sharpening and working the wood.
Often at this stage less is more. (on the stones) Less pressure and fewer strokes and shorter strokes



Once you get the hang of using these you will get an edge that when brought to your arm hair . . . the hair will pull them selves out of your arm in fear and abandon ship (or abandon arm as it were) over the side before the blade ever arrives.

When the edge is tried on the wide face of one of your finger nails, with no effort and just the weight of the blade it sinks into the nail a tiny bit with a sickening ease.

For planing all these different sitchiations
you can just simplify things and chuck the bevel down and all those other steeper bedded planes etc., and get one O' these. (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=67691&cat=1,41182,52515)
or its equivalent and lots of blades of various angles. You can vary the angles your self just buy the shallow angled ones and secondary bevel them.

ooops I was going to be good.
sorry, sorry . . .

That’s SHARP.
The advantage of all that ? No tear out, ever as far as I have found but I haven't spent any time with bird's eye maple, watch out of that one I hear.
AND
you can orient your boards for glued up panels with or against the grain for best appearance (to make the panel look as if it were a single board to help make the glue joints disappear ) rather than be at the mercy of planing with the grain.

And it's fun.

Well for me. People for the most part hate sharpening and just want to get back to woodworking.
Again David's advice is tops in that department.

PS: I almost forgot
SHARP


is when (looking through a high magnification visor) you can shave curls off a single hair. Again basically meaningless but I find it more informative than just cutting off whole hairs and it tells me when the edge is dubbed or rounded and or I have not taken off the wire edge (won't cut curls if I flip the blade over).

I just love using this bullet thing.
:p

PPS: on first blush it may seem I am undermining David's no jig, few stones and hard (firm) strop methods. I am not. There is an ultimate subtlety and minimum of fuss there that is truly great. If you can master it.