Another Scam Goes Bad

[Tim Bateson]

Last month I got a large order for Name Plate Holders - directly through my web store. Sounded fishy, but PayPal (my credit card handler) said everything looked legit to them. I delayed the order for over a week, then the day after I sent the buyer the tracking info, the sale was disputed through the credit card company. Hmmmmm

I had full proof through the Tracking #, that I sent it to the address on record - PayPal requires this if you are in a dispute. In addition I added a signature to prove it was not only delivered, but accepted as well. Well worth the extra cost.

The result - money held for 15 days, but case now closed in my favor & funds released to me.

Why was I suspicious:
1. Large quantity of Name Plate Holders - no Name Plates.
2. Buyer paid top dollar for them - never asked about quantity discounts.
3. Buyer's address in LA, - Mailing address in Houston,TX - Phone # in NY

BTW - Every Holder and every box has my sticker (not easily removed), so if they plan to resell or what-ever, it's still my biz info they're pushing.

[Bruce Volden]

Glad you got the funds back otherwise it would have been much worse.

Bruce

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Glad to read you covered your tracks. One added step I have done is to take photos of how the items are packaged in the box including the label. That came in handy when a customer screwed up the data and tried to claim the items were damaged in shipping, yet "BTW I need a change to the text." The photo they sent me of the damaged items in the package showed totally different packing material!

[David Somers]

Thanks for sharing that Tim! Will put all that in my future bag o tricks!

Glad it turned out well for you.

Dave

[Tim Bateson]

... That came in handy when a customer screwed up the data and tried to claim the items were damaged in shipping, yet "BTW I need a change to the text." The photo they sent me of the damaged items in the package showed totally different packing material!

Had that before. Item packed so well, it could have been dropped safely from a airplane (exaggerating a little). The buyer refused to send it back & guess what - she didn't own a camera to prove it was damaged. I won that one too.

[Bill Stearns]

Tim -
It's awfully sad we live in a world with so many crooked people, crooked companies; scammers 'n all. Nowadays, you can't trust telemarketing calls, e-mails, even when one appears to be a nice order. Feel really bad for those business people who aren't as savvy as you are, Tim. I especially love those e-mails (potential orders) where the writer is asking for something utterly ridiculous! - so obviously a scam of some sort. (Enough people must fall for this, 'else they won't do it, you'd think?) And, lately, you take a risk even returning a call to confirm; I hear they've got some way of charging (a lot) for the call-back! Had one customer (ordering a family tree plaque) who didn't want' a give me the 3 security digits on the back of her credit card; arguing with me 'bout my needing it to process her order. - guess we're all getting so leery nowadays .... makes running a business all that more, uh ... challenging, uh? Tim - thanks for the wisdom. Take care.

Bill

[Dan Hintz]

I wouldn't mind knowing the name of such scammers... so I don't process their next order.

[Tim Bateson]

I wouldn't mind knowing the name of such scammers... so I don't process their next order.

Larry Jacobson

[Chris J Anderson]

I had the same a few months ago, an online order for 1000 small plates with one persons name on them ????

Dealt with immediately, using the delete key...

[John Bion]

Different tack from the scam above but I have had a few of these (italicised) scams come through my Contact Us page recently (all very similar except address and phone number):

name
Steve Davies

email
steved01570@gmail.com

tel
013-013-0130

message
We can increase rankings of your website in all major search engines at a
very affordable price.Email us back to get a full proposal.

I am working on blocking all IP addresses from India etc.... to stop these.

[Scott Shepherd]

Different tack from the scam above but I have had a few of these (italicised) scams come through my Contact Us page recently (all very similar except address and phone number):

name
Steve Davies

email
steved01570@gmail.com

tel
013-013-0130

message
We can increase rankings of your website in all major search engines at a
very affordable price.Email us back to get a full proposal.

I am working on blocking all IP addresses from India etc.... to stop these.


I get those emails every few days and I also get phone calls from people telling me that they've looked at my website and it's not ranking as high as they could get it if I just hired them. I'm stumped them by asking "Which keywords did you use to determine that?".

How in the world would you know where I'm ranked if you didn't actually put something in the search engine to search for.

I think the worst thing you can do with those emails is respond to them. I'm confident that does nothing but get your email on the "valid email" list and then the flood gates will open with more spam.

[Kev Williams]

I get at least a dozen of those emails every day. Started after buying a machine from China.

And it really stumps the website sales people when I tell them I have so much business already that I'm going to take my website down. I don't think they were trained to handle THAT response...

As for chargeback scam artists, I guy I've done biz with online for 14 years has had that happen so many times he can spot them instantly. His response to them is "send me a money order". They never do.

[Robert Walters]

I sent it to the address on record - PayPal requires this if you are in a dispute. In addition I added a signature to prove it was not only delivered, but accepted as well. Well worth the extra cost.

Because you stated "address on RECORD", it made me think a moment...

A buyer does NOT need to have a paypal account to pay via paypal.
They can use their credit card directly without singing up for a paypal account.

Paypal's Seller Protection states you *must* ship to the address on the TRANSACTION DETAILS page to be covered. I'm going to speculate that this is the credit card's confirmed billing address (at least the confirmed zip code).

"The payment must be marked “eligible” for PayPal Seller protection on the Transaction Details Page."

"You must provide Proof of Shipment or Proof of Delivery."


Couple of "gotchas" I found, The following are NOT covered:

1. Custom-made items


I called paypal...

I gave the example of selling a "pepperoni pizza";
That IS covered under Paypal's Seller Protection, as it's not customized.

I then gave the example of selling a "pepperoni pizza" with instructions of "half pepperoni" or "easy sauce";
That is NOT covered under Paypal's Seller Protection, as it has been customized.

Selling a cake, covered.
Selling a cake with free personalization of "Happy 12th Birthday Susie", not covered.

I suppose you could have an option field of AGE with 1st, 2nd...98th, 99th on it, much like SIZE (s,m,l,xl),
but are you going to have 40,000 names as an option too?

Maybe an option of LETTERING: 0, 1-50, 51-100. That just an option, not customized, right? :D



2. Items that you deliver in person, including in connection with In-Store Checkout.

If you accepted a payment via Virtual Terminal (a smartphone and one of those little card swipe things you plug into the microphone jack and captured their signature), you are NOT covered under Paypal's Seller Protection.

Sidenote: When you use Virtual Terminal via a smartphone at the time of transaction, Paypal receives the captured signature. If a chargeback is later filed, they will already have the signature on file.


Signature Confirmation required if the full amount including shipping and taxes is $750 USD or more.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US#11


Paypal Seller Protection does NOT apply to chargebacks under any circumstances.

[Robert Walters]

I have so much business already that I'm going to take my website down

"GOOD ANSWER!!! GOOD ANSWER!!!" <audience applauds>


Now only if it were true :)

[Dave Sheldrake]

Worst one is the chargeback...nothing you can do to stop it when taking paypal payments that have been made with a credit card. Can be 5 months down the road and you still lose every time :(

cheers

Dave

[Tim Bateson]

...Paypal Seller Protection does NOT apply to chargebacks under any circumstances.

This WAS a Chargeback. Your statement is incomplete.
From PayPal under "What isn’t covered by Seller Protection?"Claims, chargebacks, or reversals that are filed because the item is significantly different from how you described it – for example, if you described a new item but sent a used one.

[Tim Bateson]

Worst one is the chargeback...nothing you can do to stop it when taking paypal payments that have been made with a credit card.Can be 5 months down the road and you still lose every time :(

I'm proof that isn't true.

[Kev Williams]

"GOOD ANSWER!!! GOOD ANSWER!!!" <audience applauds>
Now only if it were true :)
Actually, it IS true! Around the middle of last November I removed access to the pages and put up an 'out of service' page because I was already working 18/7 and couldn't handle the additional xmas work. Just last week I finally put the page back up after a few adjustments.

[Cody Pierce]

With so many viable options to take money anymore why is anybody using the fraud rampant paypal? That's just asking for trouble. FWIW, money can be sent from debit to debit via square and google cash without any fees whatsoever.

[Robert Walters]

This WAS a Chargeback. Your statement is incomplete.

That actually came from the paypal rep I spoke with, not the agreement.

Chargebacks are not covered under "Paypal Seller Protection", period.
But seem to be handled under a different "umbrella".

[Robert Walters]

Actually, it IS true!

Well, that is always a good thing (sorta =)

[Dave Sheldrake]

Chargebacks are initiated by the banks not paypal, it is a claim that a card was fraudulently used without the holders permission.
Paypal can cover the cost if they wish to (I don't know what the agreements are over there) but have the opt out (that they love to use here every time)

cheers

Dave

[Tim Bateson]

PayPal Seller Protection: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection

[Mike Null]

PayPal refunded my wife's money in a dispute and they went on to try to resolve the issue with the seller. It took persistence on my wife's part but that is no problem for her.